BMW Design Boss Thinks Customising Is Cool

[Teutonic]

Mr. Christopher Weil,

A beautiful car looks good in any angle and any pictures, not only in person!

No posters with 4 Series or new M3 then, since they look like crap?

And BTW, I have seen it in person. It is horrible.

I am in the middle of ordering the M340 as we speak since the new M3 is a nono for me, Mr Weil !!!
(You should hear my girl’s opinion and you will quit your job!)

I just regret that I lost all this time waiting for this ugly AF (!) M3.

Thanks to you, I also ordered and wait for my RS6.

[thebmw]

“The 4 Series, in our aim, should be more expressive, more progressive and also more elegant than the 3 Series."

Whatever Mr. Weil is smoking is some expensive stuff. I don't think there is one person on the planet, including some of the fanboys here, who would call the new 4 "elegant", unless they are into pig nostrils.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Don't be so parochial. There were M3s before there were 4-series, and the grilles from M3s would always fit in the normal 3-series cars. For instance, and E30 M3 center grille fits any other E30. There was no compelling reason for BMW to use the new 4-series grille on the upcoming M3 when the M340i front-end would have served perfectly well. Jamming the grille from a 1972 Ford Torino in the M3 isn't supported by any engineering or aero-tuning claims.

The M3s before the 4 series are mostly coupes. The original design is always a coupe and the sedan takes the same facia. I don't know why you can't get that through your head. Look at the E90 M3 front...

You are the only person confused here.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by chris719

The M3s before the 4 series are mostly coupes. The original design is always a coupe and the sedan takes the same facia. I don't know why you can't get that through your head. Look at the E90 M3 front...

You are the only person confused here.

E36, E90 both had 4-door M3 versions. That's two out of four E-code generations. In the E36 the coupe had a different hood (visible vents) and headlights than the sedan but they shared the same grille. I still insist there was no reason to graft the huge grilles on the 2021 M3 other than to somehow validate the design error on the 4-series. You say it was always done that way. It wasn't.

And they never did it on the M5 or M6. Don't you think that would have been a more challenging thermal and aero issue with a V10 and a V8? It wasn't necessary, was it?

This is really just a tempest in a teapot with dogs seeing who can pea the higher up that tree. This, too, will pass, just like the Bangle Butt. Bad design is bad design. BMW never seccumbed to such aesthetic excess or gross ornamentation before. What happened to BMW being a design leader? They are obviously following now.

[SteveinArizona]

It occurs to me that if customization is so simple, why doesn't BMW offer a "classic" version of the 4 series. Should be easy according to what he says. Of course, the answer is probably that the "classic" will probably outsell the new version 4-1.

[CT_M3]

No need to get worked up on this interview. What else did you expect him to say? Fall on his sword and admit that they goofed?

It's a PR attempt to deflect the criticism and save some dignity.

See the comment below by BMWCCA1. They should by now, be aware that there's a problem.

This will get interesting. We should all start a poll on how much time before LCI happens. Typically 3-4 years right? I'd say. maybe 2 years lol? or a mini LCI?

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

How about just 430 and M440 sales, since the US hasn't gotten any M4s yet?

We haven't sold a single one. Can't even remember anyone test-driving them and we've had two M440i and one 430i in stock for some time. Mostly we have BMW owners take a look at them and tell their significant others "see, that's what I was telling you about" and laughing at the design. The most positive comment is "it doesn't look as bad in person".

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

No need to get worked up on this interview. What else did you expect him to say? Fall on his sword and admit that they goofed?

Design goof was bad enough. What was worse is that they came out with the PR campaign literally insulting all of us and implying that we have some serious personality disorders for not accepting their obnoxious and disjointed design language. I, for one, will not forget that.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by chris719

You are the only person confused here.

I'm not taking sides here. But the easiest way to put this debate to rest is to pull up pictures of the different generations and put them side-by-side with their non-m counterparts.

[CT_M3]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Design goof was bad enough. What was worse is that they came out with the PR campaign literally insulting all of us and implying that we have some serious personality disorders for not accepting their obnoxious and disjointed design language. I, for one, will not forget that.

I'm with you. You should join the thread over at the "VS." in the F80 subforum. We've been going at it for 50+ pages over the design, PR and the general direction BMW corporate is headed

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Don't be so parochial. There were M3s before there were 4-series, and the grilles from M3s would always fit in the normal 3-series cars. For instance, and E30 M3 center grille fits any other E30. There was no compelling reason for BMW to use the new 4-series grille on the upcoming M3 when the M340i front-end would have served perfectly well. Jamming the grille from a 1972 Ford Torino in the M3 isn't supported by any engineering or aero-tuning claims.

Not sure why you keep insisting otherwise but chris719, frankchn and others are correct that M3's (and M4's starting with the F82) have always used the coupe front end. This is really not disputable. Here's a quote from BMW AG in describing their history concerning the 3 series:

"The BMW M3 Sedan grew out of a fusion between the two designs. The design involved an unprecedented combination of a front section based on the Coupé’s front end and a tail section derived from the Sedan."

It was done this way from the start and continues into the G8x. Also when you say "There were M3s before there were 4-series," that's true in name only. The 3-Series Coupe begat the 4-Series. They split out the coupe into the 4-Series to be consistent with BMW nomenclature with even-numbering for coupes. There may be more divergence between the 3-Series and 4-Series in the future however.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

Not sure why you keep insisting otherwise but chris719, frankchn and others are correct that M3's (and M4's starting with the F82) have always used the coupe front end. This is really not disputable. Here's a quote from BMW AG in describing their history concerning the 3 series:

"The BMW M3 Sedan grew out of a fusion between the two designs. The design involved an unprecedented combination of a front section based on the Coupé’s front end and a tail section derived from the Sedan."

It was done this way from the start and continues into the G8x. Also when you say "There were M3s before there were 4-series," that's true in name only. The 3-Series Coupe begat the 4-Series. They split out the coupe into the 4-Series to be consistent with BMW nomenclature with even-numbering for coupes. There may be more divergence between the 3-Series and 4-Series in the future however.

You're citing one generation as "always". E30 M3 used the same grilles as the E30 sedan, and so did E36. The E46 nose is consistent without massive change between coupe and sedan and M3. E90 and E92 shared the same grilles between coupe and sedan. "Done this way from the start" means . . . what?

[IllSic_Design]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

You're citing one generation as "always". E30 M3 used the same grilles as the E30 sedan, and so did E36. The E46 nose is consistent without massive change between coupe and sedan and M3. E90 and E92 shared the same grilles between coupe and sedan. "Done this way from the start" means . . . what?

It's not about the grilles only, about the whole front end. E90 and E92 non-m did NOT share the same grilles or head lights or bumpers while the M's did, and E46 2 v 4 door did not share the same headlights

[GenXer]

From what I understood from the article. "The new 4 series is ugly, feel free to change its look"

As for the picture doesn't do it justice. That is correct. It's even uglier in person.

[schnellwagen]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

How about just 430 and M440 sales, since the US hasn't gotten any M4s yet?

We haven't sold a single one. Can't even remember anyone test-driving them and we've had two M440i and one 430i in stock for some time. Mostly we have BMW owners take a look at them and tell their significant others "see, that's what I was telling you about" and laughing at the design. The most positive comment is "it doesn't look as bad in person".

I haven't seen a single one and BMW is very popular where I live. Not as popular anymore due to the rise of Tesla, but due to the lack of a Tesla coupe the 4 series is not a rare sight here. The G22, however, is nowhere to be seen. The only time I saw one was a floor model M440i at Peter Pan BMW. And yes, I was the one who pointed it out to my family that "this is the ugly grille I told you about"

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by schnellwagen

I haven't seen a single one and BMW is very popular where I live. Not as popular anymore due to the rise of Tesla, but due to the lack of a Tesla coupe the 4 series is not a rare sight here. The G22, however, is nowhere to be seen. The only time I saw one was a floor model M440i at Peter Pan BMW. And yes, I was the one who pointed it out to my family that "this is the ugly grille I told you about"

Tons of BMWs around here but I have yet to see one with an Edsel grill.

[to_riffic]

Modifying the body doesn't mean modifying the engine. So yeah, I'm sure he's open to users changing the body, just don't touch the engine

[BMWCCA1]

Had a customer in for a test-drive in one yesterday. Now he wants to wait for the Gran Coupe! Didn't really say a word about the grille. More taken aback by the price of the base 430ix. Probably isn't even aware of the controversy. He's currently in an F10.

[Vivek.]

Originally Posted by schnellwagen

I haven't seen a single one and BMW is very popular where I live. Not as popular anymore due to the rise of Tesla, but due to the lack of a Tesla coupe the 4 series is not a rare sight here. The G22, however, is nowhere to be seen. The only time I saw one was a floor model M440i at Peter Pan BMW. And yes, I was the one who pointed it out to my family that "this is the ugly grille I told you about"

Bay area here too. Used to seeing new cars on the road often before I've even seen them online. Haven't seen a single new 4 series in person.

[SteveinArizona]

I think BMW's immediate problem on changing course on the ugly grills is how do you explain to the 14 customers who bought the 4 series that you recognized that you sold them an ugly car. They will be ticked off unless they get some compensation.

so the customization BS may be BMW's way of trying to get out of the conundrum of the ugly grills having already been sold to some folks.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by schnellwagen

I haven't seen a single one and BMW is very popular where I live. Not as popular anymore due to the rise of Tesla, but due to the lack of a Tesla coupe the 4 series is not a rare sight here. The G22, however, is nowhere to be seen. The only time I saw one was a floor model M440i at Peter Pan BMW. And yes, I was the one who pointed it out to my family that "this is the ugly grille I told you about"

Same story here and I live in SoCal; haven't seen a single 4-series. I've only seen a handful of 2GCs as well.

Hopefully the public rejects these ridiculous cars. BMW is lost.

[schnellwagen]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Same story here and I live in SoCal; haven't seen a single 4-series. I've only seen a handful of 2GCs as well.

Hopefully the public rejects these ridiculous cars. BMW is lost.

I know this is sacrilegious but I will totally pick up a cheap ugly face 4 series lease if they fail to move a substantial amount. It's still a great car in every way except for the front end

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by schnellwagen

I know this is sacrilegious but I will totally pick up a cheap ugly face 4 series lease if they fail to move a substantial amount. It's still a great car in every way except for the front end

Fair enough.