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      07-09-2012, 05:07 AM   #1
Ultimas
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Ignition: 2013 BMW M6 Convertible (F12): When Power and Weight Fight, Who Wins?

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On this episode of Ignition, Carlos Lago searches for the soul inside the heavy yet powerful 2013 BMW M6 Convertible. Is the new M6 really a desirable driver's car or simply a clever feat of engineering? Or is it both?

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      07-09-2012, 09:06 AM   #2
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Again, with the sports car thinking....sigh. It is NOT a sports car!
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      07-09-2012, 10:30 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by jettie1767
Again, with the sports car thinking....sigh. It is NOT a sports car!
I agree Jettie, I think it's the letter "M" that confuses everyone. These journalist do not realize that the 6 series(including the M6) has moved up in class. I mean, you wouldn't compare and CL63 AMG or even a SL63 AMG to a sports car would you ?
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      07-09-2012, 06:54 PM   #4
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As amazing as the M6 is as a car overall (technological/engineering standpoint), all I got out of this video was having a M variant is pointless.
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      07-09-2012, 07:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamLegend View Post
Spot on review. I love how the number of negative reviews has been increasing ever since BMW started going down the turbo path and made some very drastic changes in their philosophy (bigger cars, turbo engines, electrical steering, 4500 lb M cars, etc). They are in the wrong path and while their profit may go up in the short term, their name is being dragged through the mud. I'm also glad some journalists have the courage to stand up against them. A lot of things that are shown here on this website is extremely biased and one sided. I like how we get insider information with Scott and such, but to be honest with you it's like mixing friendship and business, I think we are (as the community) "too close" to BMW.
Problem is, that all manufacturers have to go down the turbo route...
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      07-09-2012, 07:25 PM   #6
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Spot on review. I love how the number of negative reviews has been increasing ever since BMW started going down the turbo path and made some very drastic changes in their philosophy (bigger cars, turbo engines, electrical steering, 4500 lb M cars, etc). They are in the wrong path and while their profit may go up in the short term, their name is being dragged through the mud. I'm also glad some journalists have the courage to stand up against them. A lot of things that are shown here on this website is extremely biased and one sided. I like how we get insider information with Scott and such, but to be honest with you it's like mixing friendship and business, I think we are (as the community) "too close" to BMW.
I agree. BMW is going the wrong path. The 6 series is a beautiful looking and tech-heavy car but it isn't the soul of a true sports car (turbo, electric sterring, 4500 lb, etc.). I also agree with how biased people are here. I mentioned the C&D comparo where the M5 lost against the E63AMG and the S6 recently, and the very mention was deleted time and again by the admins. They only want to portray victories and not defeats. :-/
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      07-09-2012, 07:37 PM   #7
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Love the M6! Great Video!

As far as the whole M Division debate, just actually read an article on Jalopnik saying something similar. I feel the M6 is still being judged as a sports car (coming from the old one with its high-revving v10 ) when its turning more into the high powered GT similar to a CL63 or SL63. The m5's or E63's may be less of GT's as a CL or SL and m6 but are more so in that direction if you ask me. Its a different class arguably better or worse. We'll see how the m3/m4 is when it comes out.
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      07-09-2012, 07:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterbeemer View Post
I agree. BMW is going the wrong path. The 6 series is a beautiful looking and tech-heavy car but it isn't the soul of a true sports car (turbo, electric sterring, 4500 lb, etc.). I also agree with how biased people are here. I mentioned the C&D comparo where the M5 lost against the E63AMG and the S6 recently, and the very mention was deleted time and again by the admins. They only want to portray victories and not defeats. :-/
M6 has hydraulic assisted steering, and apparently C&D is sponsored by Audi, so just saying. In that same issue, they have the M6 (which has the same steering and suspension components as M5) a better review because it drove better.
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      07-09-2012, 07:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterbeemer View Post
I agree. BMW is going the wrong path. The 6 series is a beautiful looking and tech-heavy car but it isn't the soul of a true sports car (turbo, electric sterring, 4500 lb, etc.). I also agree with how biased people are here. I mentioned the C&D comparo where the M5 lost against the E63AMG and the S6 recently, and the very mention was deleted time and again by the admins. They only want to portray victories and not defeats. :-/
I don't think it's bias. I didn't buy the car coz I thought it was a sports car. I wanted a powerful and sporty GRAND TOURER and NOT a SPORTS car. Big difference. If I wanted a sports car, I would have gotten a 911 Turbo S or a Ferrari or Bugatti. Obviously, all these reporters don't know what the difference is.
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      07-09-2012, 08:19 PM   #10
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It's not BMW using turbo's that's seems to be bringing the brand down, it's all the other parts of the car. Just speaking from a performance standpoint, you can achieve just about anything you can in a NA engine with a turbo with the added efficiency but with that, whether it's intentional or because of safety regulations, BMW seems to think they could add more weight.

I don't have a problem with the technology BMW is using in their cars. But I think they should consider what to put and in which models. Save the luxury/comfort-related things in the base-series and make the M models more reflective of their racing heritage. No more added computers to change the dampers, leave that for the base-series models and have M models use one suspension setup.

It's disappointing to see BMW lose their way. It's different if the competition caught up and/or surpasses BMW. But to see BMW actually stumble and can't keep up with their own standards and allowing the competition to pass them that way is almost sad.
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      07-09-2012, 09:02 PM   #11
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I read everyone reviews and no one seems to mention how absolutely enormous this car is. I was lucky enough to drive one (friends dad) and coming from my 335i which to be honest isn't really a small car either, I felt like I was driving a high powered tank. It is a wonder how this car can do what it does at this size, the series have just gotten so big from what they used to be.
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      07-09-2012, 09:16 PM   #12
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German interpretation of a corvette? Really?!! M6 is not a sports car it's a GT car.
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      07-09-2012, 09:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
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German interpretation of a corvette? Really?!! M6 is not a sports car it's a GT car.
Exactly! +1
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      07-09-2012, 10:37 PM   #14
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Stating that the Germans are copying the Corvette was just strange, and then pointing out it had a twin turbo V8 and a long hood (it's not that long) to backup his point didn't make much sense. I don't think he thought that statement through.

I think journalists were expecting the M5/M6 to defy physics and feel smaller than it is. Maybe expectations were running high since the E46, E9x M3s, and E39 and E60 M5s were best in class for most journalists by a significant margin.
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      07-09-2012, 10:37 PM   #15
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Slap the reporter!

I'd rather have seen him testing out the 4255 lbs coupe vice the convertible. Especially since he was comparing to M5 and a flipping corvette.
I wouldn't be comparing an e93 M3 with its direct competition. This guy should have known, or the producers.
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      07-09-2012, 11:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90
It's not BMW using turbo's that's seems to be bringing the brand down, it's all the other parts of the car. Just speaking from a performance standpoint, you can achieve just about anything you can in a NA engine with a turbo with the added efficiency but with that, whether it's intentional or because of safety regulations, BMW seems to think they could add more weight.

I don't have a problem with the technology BMW is using in their cars. But I think they should consider what to put and in which models. Save the luxury/comfort-related things in the base-series and make the M models more reflective of their racing heritage. No more added computers to change the dampers, leave that for the base-series models and have M models use one suspension setup.

It's disappointing to see BMW lose their way. It's different if the competition caught up and/or surpasses BMW. But to see BMW actually stumble and can't keep up with their own standards and allowing the competition to pass them that way is almost sad.
Considering the M6 convertible/coupes actual competition is now the Bentley GT V8 convertible and coupe, CL63 and SL63 it's weight is not bad at all. With the exception of the newly designed SL the M6s are lighter than the others. When compared to the Jags and Astons it's heavier yet *performs better and comes with more bells and whistle than are even offered on the two respective brands.

I really don't think BMW has "lost their way" or "are on the wrong path". I think BMW has decided to move into a market that they previously ignored. This fact seems to be hard to swallow or understand for some people. They offer quite a few sedans and coupes in the Z, 1, 3 and upcoming 4 range that meet or exceed sportscar "performance". Seriously, look at the Audi R8 v8 vs the e92 BMW M3 if you don't know what I mean. The M6 is not a track car but if you put it on a track against its competitors I bet you it'll do very well.
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      07-09-2012, 11:33 PM   #17
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Considering the M6 convertible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judah
Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90
It's not BMW using turbo's that's seems to be bringing the brand down, it's all the other parts of the car. Just speaking from a performance standpoint, you can achieve just about anything you can in a NA engine with a turbo with the added efficiency but with that, whether it's intentional or because of safety regulations, BMW seems to think they could add more weight.

I don't have a problem with the technology BMW is using in their cars. But I think they should consider what to put and in which models. Save the luxury/comfort-related things in the base-series and make the M models more reflective of their racing heritage. No more added computers to change the dampers, leave that for the base-series models and have M models use one suspension setup.

It's disappointing to see BMW lose their way. It's different if the competition caught up and/or surpasses BMW. But to see BMW actually stumble and can't keep up with their own standards and allowing the competition to pass them that way is almost sad.
Considering the M6 convertible/coupes actual competition is now the Bentley GT V8 convertible and coupe, CL63 and SL63 it's weight is not bad at all. With the exception of the newly designed SL the M6s are lighter than the others. When compared to the Jags and Astons it's heavier yet *performs better and comes with more bells and whistle than are even offered on the two respective brands.

I really don't think BMW has "lost their way" or "are on the wrong path". I think BMW has decided to move into a market that they previously ignored. This fact seems to be hard to swallow or understand for some people. They offer quite a few sedans and coupes in the Z, 1, 3 and upcoming 4 range that meet or exceed sportscar "performance". Seriously, look at the Audi R8 v8 vs the e92 BMW M3 if you don't know what I mean. The M6 is not a track car but if you put it on a track against its competitors I bet you it'll do very well.
I have had my eyes set on this car for a month. I currently have the 2011 550i. I truly enjoy the smooth ride that the car provides. I haven't driven the M6 yet, however, if the car has 550hp and is still smooth and is a convertible, I think I will be very happy. What do you guys think? The only thing that has held me back is the price! List is 125 fully loaded, that's a lot! 25K more and I could have a fucking Bentley!
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      07-10-2012, 12:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judah View Post
Considering the M6 convertible/coupes actual competition is now the Bentley GT V8 convertible and coupe, CL63 and SL63 it's weight is not bad at all. With the exception of the newly designed SL the M6s are lighter than the others. When compared to the Jags and Astons it's heavier yet *performs better and comes with more bells and whistle than are even offered on the two respective brands.

I really don't think BMW has "lost their way" or "are on the wrong path". I think BMW has decided to move into a market that they previously ignored. This fact seems to be hard to swallow or understand for some people. They offer quite a few sedans and coupes in the Z, 1, 3 and upcoming 4 range that meet or exceed sportscar "performance". Seriously, look at the Audi R8 v8 vs the e92 BMW M3 if you don't know what I mean. The M6 is not a track car but if you put it on a track against its competitors I bet you it'll do very well.
Good points but the problem or the annoyance many have with BMW and it's M brand is that it's drifting away from what it was originally was not if it's competitive in it's class. Of course "whatever M car" is going to be competitive in it's class otherwise BMW would be wasting money. The X5/X6M competes, and they're amazing for what they are, but they have no business being an M car.

When you start questioning something that's naturally associated with M cars (as per this video), you have to stop and think if it's becoming a problem.

I think the FXX M3 is going to be a telling sign of the direction or state BMW M is headed or is in.
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      07-10-2012, 12:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamLegend
Spot on review. I love how the number of negative reviews has been increasing ever since BMW started going down the turbo path and made some very drastic changes in their philosophy (bigger cars, turbo engines, electrical steering, 4500 lb M cars, etc). They are in the wrong path and while their profit may go up in the short term, their name is being dragged through the mud. I'm also glad some journalists have the courage to stand up against them. A lot of things that are shown here on this website is extremely biased and one sided. I like how we get insider information with Scott and such, but to be honest with you it's like mixing friendship and business, I think we are (as the community) "too close" to BMW.
This forum is extremely biased. I never been a fan of the newer m5 and m6 but some people on the forum said they loved it before pictures even came out or even reviews but this is an BMW car forum but I feel BMW owners are one of the biased owners. And I own an BMW myself
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      07-10-2012, 02:50 AM   #20
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Scott presented a few days ago that the new tech for lighter cars will be introduced with the next generation of 7 series! For sure after that all the other models will benefit from that tech, especially M cars
Another car that will be much lighter than the current model is the next X5!
Maybe this is a transition time and the costs were to high to incorporate the new light technology in these models (CFRP and so on), but in the near future BMW knows very well what to do and what to launch to maintain its top position as premium car leader.

As a curiosity, Audi's Boss estimated a few years ago that in 2015 they will be the premium car leaders, these days delayed this date to 2020
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      07-10-2012, 03:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterbeemer View Post
I agree. BMW is going the wrong path. The 6 series is a beautiful looking and tech-heavy car but it isn't the soul of a true sports car (turbo, electric sterring, 4500 lb, etc.). I also agree with how biased people are here. I mentioned the C&D comparo where the M5 lost against the E63AMG and the S6 recently, and the very mention was deleted time and again by the admins. They only want to portray victories and not defeats. :-/
I don't even agree that the new 6 is beautiful - it's just way too big when compared to the previous one - which looks like a compact 911 when compared to the bulky new model.
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      07-10-2012, 04:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by vladberca View Post
Scott presented a few days ago that the new tech for lighter cars will be introduced with the next generation of 7 series! For sure after that all the other models will benefit from that tech, especially M cars
Another car that will be much lighter than the current model is the next X5!
Maybe this is a transition time and the costs were to high to incorporate the new light technology in these models (CFRP and so on), but in the near future BMW knows very well what to do and what to launch to maintain its top position as premium car leader.

As a curiosity, Audi's Boss estimated a few years ago that in 2015 they will be the premium car leaders, these days delayed this date to 2020
I wouldn't be so quick at laughing at Audi - they've embarked on a lightweight program already starting with the new A3 (lighter than the old model) and the aluminium-intensive new A6 which is lighter, model for model, than the heavy 5-series.
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