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      09-16-2011, 11:58 AM   #1
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Arrow Latest Video and Photos of BMW M6 Coupe and Convertible Testing at Nurburgring

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Latest Video and Photos of BMW M6 Coupe and Convertible Testing at Nurburgring
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We bring you the latest live look and listen at the upcoming new M6 coupe (F13) and convertible (F12) undergoing some final testing at the Nurburgring. We've also posted below a set of photos from the testing.

Not much camouflage remains, so its general shape and styling is easy to imagine. As for sounds, the M6 sounds quite similar to the F10 M5, owing to sharing the M5's 4.4L 560hp twinpower twin turbo V8 S63Tu engine [specs]. This prototype appears to be testing carbon ceramic brakes, which will be an optional upgrade.

There's no final word on debut and availability of the BMW F12/F13 M6 but we expect BMW to officially unveil the M6 in late 2011/early 2012 with a market launch in 2012.

Be sure to follow all information on the BMW M6 coupe and convertible @ http://www.bimmerpost.com/m6/f12m6/








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      09-16-2011, 12:54 PM   #2
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Great looking car but the sound of all that understeer just makes me cringe
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      09-16-2011, 01:00 PM   #3
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i dont think it's understeer nois, it's jus taht the track is a little bumpy and the car loses grip.
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      09-16-2011, 01:01 PM   #4
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Looks like a really heavy car. Look how much they have to slow down for turns.
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      09-16-2011, 01:32 PM   #5
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well its def fast, and it does stay flat ... but ur right that thing looks friggin heavy
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      09-16-2011, 01:58 PM   #6
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I really wish it sounded better.
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      09-16-2011, 02:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUT View Post
Great looking car but the sound of all that understeer just makes me cringe
Right?! What was that about?!? I was just about to say the F10 m5 definitely holds it's composure more, that 6 looked so unbelievably sluggish! I have always loved the m5 over the m6. Pretty sure that m5 is known to handle better as well despite having two extra doors. Kind of like the e90 m3 vs the e92
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      09-16-2011, 02:47 PM   #8
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43 seconds into it is where it makes me cringe.
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      09-16-2011, 03:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUT View Post
Great looking car but the sound of all that understeer just makes me cringe
I hardly login but I did just to reply to this comment.

You can not HEAR understeer. What you heard is the squealing of tires sliding sideways across the pavement. There is no way that you can tell if it's understeering or if it's oversteering or neutral, by just listening to the sound. It didn't appear to be noticeably oversteering in the video but only if you're driving the car can you really tell.

Sitting in your armchair will not give you a good idea of how the car drives AT ALL!! The amount of armchair coaches and drivers on here is ridiculous.

EDIT: At 1:08 it actually appears to be slightly oversteering. But in reality, a car that loves oversteering can be easily made to understeer in a corner and also made to hold right on the edge and go neutrally around the corner. By driving it around one corner you can't come to a conclusion that the car will always oversteer or understeer... And you're trying to make that conclusion from watching a video!

Last edited by italy430; 09-16-2011 at 03:56 PM.
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      09-16-2011, 04:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italy430 View Post
I hardly login but I did just to reply to this comment.

You can not HEAR understeer. What you heard is the squealing of tires sliding sideways across the pavement. There is no way that you can tell if it's understeering or if it's oversteering or neutral, by just listening to the sound. It didn't appear to be noticeably oversteering in the video but only if you're driving the car can you really tell.

Sitting in your armchair will not give you a good idea of how the car drives AT ALL!! The amount of armchair coaches and drivers on here is ridiculous.

EDIT: At 1:08 it actually appears to be slightly oversteering. But in reality, a car that loves oversteering can be easily made to understeer in a corner and also made to hold right on the edge and go neutrally around the corner. By driving it around one corner you can't come to a conclusion that the car will always oversteer or understeer... And you're trying to make that conclusion from watching a video!
Exactly!! I really want to reply to that comment, but I just dont know how to describe it. Thx for giving this guy a lesson

Anyway, this is what I feel after I saw the video.

"Music in my ears."
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      09-16-2011, 04:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italy430 View Post
I hardly login but I did just to reply to this comment.

You can not HEAR understeer. What you heard is the squealing of tires sliding sideways across the pavement. There is no way that you can tell if it's understeering or if it's oversteering or neutral, by just listening to the sound. It didn't appear to be noticeably oversteering in the video but only if you're driving the car can you really tell.

Sitting in your armchair will not give you a good idea of how the car drives AT ALL!! The amount of armchair coaches and drivers on here is ridiculous.

EDIT: At 1:08 it actually appears to be slightly oversteering. But in reality, a car that loves oversteering can be easily made to understeer in a corner and also made to hold right on the edge and go neutrally around the corner. By driving it around one corner you can't come to a conclusion that the car will always oversteer or understeer... And you're trying to make that conclusion from watching a video!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrypon83 View Post
Exactly!! I really want to reply to that comment, but I just dont know how to describe it. Thx for giving this guy a lesson

Anyway, this is what I feel after I saw the video.

"Music in my ears."
The stuttering sound of the front tires losing mechanical adhesion/friction to the track is characteristic of understeer. In addition to that, watching the car's weight shift itself over is a visual that can be associated with understeer.

Understeer feels different than oversteer, that is a given. But any mildly experienced driver is able to decipher the difference between understeer and oversteer from the sound itself. Go try driving on a track sometime soon, its a much different experience than just watching videos of people on the Nürburgring from your armchair.

Cheers!
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      09-16-2011, 05:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUT View Post
The stuttering sound of the front tires losing mechanical adhesion/friction to the track is characteristic of understeer. In addition to that, watching the car's weight shift itself over is a visual that can be associated with understeer.

Understeer feels different than oversteer, that is a given. But any mildly experienced driver is able to decipher the difference between understeer and oversteer from the sound itself. Go try driving on a track sometime soon, its a much different experience than just watching videos of people on the Nürburgring from your armchair.

Cheers!
I don't have a nice way to say this so I'll try to be professional. You are incorrect.

Quote:
watching the car's weight shift itself over is a visual that can be associated with understeer
That's incorrect. The weight shift has to do with the momentum of the car changing. Momentum is a vector quantity and, therefore, a change in direction constitutes a change in momentum. The bottom of the car (wheels) are applying a force on the road which is changing the direction of the car when it goes around a corner and, therefore, changing the momentum of the car. The reason the car will experience a "weight shift" is because the inertia of the top of the car wants to keep going in the direction it was going before the wheels were turned to go around the corner. The weight of the top of the car and the distance (height of the car) from the bottom of the car will determine how much torque will be applied. Obviously a stiff suspension will be able to handle that kind of torque better and will exhibit flatter cornering. Now you can go around a corner, aka. change your momentum, by either understeering or oversteering in the corner. The direction change of the vehicle can come from either oversteer OR understeer. YOU CAN NOT TELL IF A VEHICLE IS UNDERSTEERING FROM LISTENING TO THE SOUND!!! I'd really like to make that clear.

You cannot tell from listening to the sound. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard.

Quote:
Go try driving on a track sometime soon, its a much different experience than just watching videos of people on the Nürburgring from your armchair.
Thanks for the advice. Now, can you take your own advice?

EDIT: Another little thought... the weight shift will go in the same direction, regardless of understeer or oversteer. I hope you can figure out why that happens.

Last edited by italy430; 09-16-2011 at 05:20 PM.
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      09-16-2011, 06:14 PM   #13
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I have a feeling this car understeers a lot more than its predecessor. You can tell those PS2s? are not keeping the car flat and down. I am sure they are still working on the final suspension metrics, but definitely could use some more downforce. The increased torque and power of the s63tu at those rpms around those turns is too much for that set up. It really looks like it is dragging a lot of weight around those turns.
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      09-16-2011, 06:22 PM   #14
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It will be a must to get the carbon ceramic brakes with this car.
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      09-16-2011, 07:55 PM   #15
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Quit the personal attacks, or risk an infraction.
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      09-16-2011, 08:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italy430 View Post
I don't have a nice way to say this so I'll try to be professional. You are incorrect.



That's incorrect. The weight shift has to do with the momentum of the car changing. Momentum is a vector quantity and, therefore, a change in direction constitutes a change in momentum. The bottom of the car (wheels) are applying a force on the road which is changing the direction of the car when it goes around a corner and, therefore, changing the momentum of the car. The reason the car will experience a "weight shift" is because the inertia of the top of the car wants to keep going in the direction it was going before the wheels were turned to go around the corner. The weight of the top of the car and the distance (height of the car) from the bottom of the car will determine how much torque will be applied. Obviously a stiff suspension will be able to handle that kind of torque better and will exhibit flatter cornering. Now you can go around a corner, aka. change your momentum, by either understeering or oversteering in the corner. The direction change of the vehicle can come from either oversteer OR understeer. YOU CAN NOT TELL IF A VEHICLE IS UNDERSTEERING FROM LISTENING TO THE SOUND!!! I'd really like to make that clear.

You cannot tell from listening to the sound. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard.



Thanks for the advice. Now, can you take your own advice?

EDIT: Another little thought... the weight shift will go in the same direction, regardless of understeer or oversteer. I hope you can figure out why that happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Quit the personal attacks, or risk an infraction.
No attacks.
This video (start at 8:10) should explain all.
Thanks

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      09-16-2011, 08:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUT View Post
You're not worth arguing with...

Go to 8min9sec... Does this sound familiar, big boy?

PS: Troll:
"One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument"
You're too stubborn to admit that you're wrong, and are deliberately provoking an argument.
You sir, are in fact a troll.

Good day!
I believe Jeremy said that as a bit of a joke or a stab at the supporters of the Audi. It would be good to know that during this segment in the show, Jeremy was not the supporter of the Audi.

I believe this video is more appropriate. Tiff explains, very well, the different handling characteristics that cars have. Close your eyes and listen to the Audi in your video at 8:09 and then close your eyes and listen to the MR2 at 7:00 in my video. It transitions from slight understeer to oversteer. You're lying if you tell me that there is a distinct difference between the understeer and oversteer. The MR2's noise while it transitions from understeer to oversteer has no distinct change. It progressively gets louder as the car gets closer to the camera, which negates the change in volume being significant, and the noise itself has a very minor and progressive change from when it's understeering to when it comes to rest after the oversteer maneuver.

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      09-17-2011, 12:22 AM   #18
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You're taking this way to seriously. You're still wrong.
I'm not gonna argue with you, not worth the infraction or potential ban...

Enjoy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by italy430 View Post
I believe Jeremy said that as a bit of a joke or a stab at the supporters of the Audi. It would be good to know that during this segment in the show, Jeremy was not the supporter of the Audi.

I believe this video is more appropriate. Tiff explains, very well, the different handling characteristics that cars have. Close your eyes and listen to the Audi in your video at 8:09 and then close your eyes and listen to the MR2 at 7:00 in my video. It transitions from slight understeer to oversteer. You're lying if you tell me that there is a distinct difference between the understeer and oversteer. The MR2's noise while it transitions from understeer to oversteer has no distinct change. It progressively gets louder as the car gets closer to the camera, which negates the change in volume being significant, and the noise itself has a very minor and progressive change from when it's understeering to when it comes to rest after the oversteer maneuver.

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      09-17-2011, 05:03 AM   #19
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You guys are both correct.

There is a distinctive tire scrubbing noise when a car understeers. However, it is only meaningful when it is added to the feel of the car while driving, as there are many similar noises that can be confused.
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      09-17-2011, 05:46 AM   #20
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The new M6, and even the new M5, are just too large to handle well. The M6 reminds me of a barge.
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      09-17-2011, 08:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evice View Post
You guys are both correct.

There is a distinctive tire scrubbing noise when a car understeers. However, it is only meaningful when it is added to the feel of the car while driving, as there are many similar noises that can be confused.
Bingo! That's what I was trying to illustrate with my last post. They do make a skidding sound but you'd really have to be driving the car to really know if it was an understeer or oversteer.
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      09-17-2011, 10:12 PM   #22
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I still think it is complete understeer and is set up to do this.

Is this list of understeer values from Wikipedia understeer accurate?

Car model Understeer value
Nissan 350Z 19
Mazda MX-5 21
Nissan 350Z Roadster 21
Ford Mustang GT 22
Renault Megane Sport 22
Maserati Gran Sport 23
Mini Cooper S 23
BMW 330i 25
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA 27
Corvette C6 27
Corvette Z06 28
Lotus Elise 111R 28
Porsche 997 Carrera S 28
Saab 9-3 Aero combi 28
Škoda Octavia RS 28
Porsche 997 Carrera 29
Porsche Cayman S 29
VW Golf GTI 29
Porsche 987 Boxster S 31
BMW M6 32
Range Rover Sport Supertech 32
Ford Focus ST 33
Mitsubishi Lancer EVO8 34
Porsche 968CS 34
Audi RS4 35
BMW M5 35
BMW Z4 Roadster M 35
BMW M3 Comp Package 36
Opel Astra OPC 36
BMW Z4 3.0i 37
Subaru Impreza WRX STi 37
Subaru Legacy 3.0 aut 38
Volvo V70 T5 39
Audi A4 2.0 T Q 41
Mercedes E55 AMG 42
Audi A4 V6 3.2 Q Avant 43
Porsche Cayenne Turbo 45
Smart ForFour Brabus 45
Mercedes SLK 350 47
TVR Tuscan 49
Alfa Romeo 159 2.2 JTS 51
Morgan Roadster V6 71
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