Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[beaups]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

Fox News, the CIA, Texas' opinion, and California slander all in one neat package. I thought the right deeply mistrusts the CIA/FBI? If I were a Texan, I'd be more worried about a statewide power outage bankrupting my neighbors. And Fox News... well, y'all showed your hand with that one.

Can't wait for the new threads that're about to pop up after today's reveal of the revised Tesla Model 3 Performance. Faster 0-60, weighs about 100lbs more, about 40 miles less range, and 7 more horsepower than the 2024 BMW M3 Comp I was considering. For about $30k less, before Federal and State rebates.

Regardless of the love or hate of EVs, I don't think anyone can refute the performance at that price point.

If you are actually considering a model 3 over an m3 comp you never should have shopped for an m3. M buyers know there’s more to performance (let alone the rest of the car) than silly 0-60 times.

[Equilibrandt]

Originally Posted by beaups

If you are actually considering a model 3 over an m3 comp you never should have shopped for an m3. M buyers know there’s more to performance (let alone the rest of the car) than silly 0-60 times.

I never stated that; I simply compared a new car release's performance figures to a car I'm currently looking at. But thanks for the gatekeeping. My current S55 has been a dream.

[beaups]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

I never stated that; I simply compared a new car release's performance figures to a car I'm currently looking at. But thanks for the gatekeeping. My current S55 has been a dream.

Performance figures or hypothetical 0-60 times? My bike goes 0-60 faster than a M3P at 1/3 the price. Does that make it a useful comparison? Apples and oranges.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

"Nonetheless, for routes shorter than 300 miles, electric trucking can be attractive if the lower operating cost associated with electric trucks is large enough to offset the upfront cost, which some believe will be persistently higher than the cost of diesel trucks (Miller, 2022). [B]Sripad and Viswanathan (2019)y in health impacts across racial groups". How are the health impacts of freight pollution segregated from the health impacts of smoking, vaping, drinking alcohol, drug use, and poor eating habits (which everyone does regardless of socio-economic situation)?

“Suppose i have 2 apples, then suppose i get another 2; now i have 4.”

“ItS bAsEd On SuPpOsItIoN”

However, fair play; i was inarticulate in my response.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by x622

Conceptualize if you will, the inability to understand what a peer reviewed paper entails and how little requirements it has to have outside of citing and format requirements. You can make a peer reviewed study on anything, but that has nothing to do with it's merit. Thanks for taking this one apart, I didn't want to read it, but it's the usual fantasy trope as we all anticipated. I think people just read the headlines on phys.org and then think they're scientists.

My point about text books is they cost a lot of money to manufacture vs. some internet site that can change the words for free. If a scientific text book does not meet academic standards (what I meant by peer review) it will not sell and the publisher loses money. And text books teach the fundamentals of science study, which is what I use to judge internet scientific information. The internet is basically full of agenda-driven bullshit. So, no, scientific text books from 40 years ago are not outdated.

The study under discussion here, made no reasoning what effect automation has on reducing truck emissions. I read the article several times and I did not see the tie in into automation. I think we are 5 decades away (if ever) from automated over-the-road trucks. 50 years time is well past most climate scientists prediction of the point of no climatic return.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by murderspice

“Suppose i have 2 apples, then suppose i get another 2; now i have 4.”

“ItS bAsEd On SuPpOsItIoN”

However, fair play; i was inarticulate in my response.

Your grammar is not correct. "... supposedly I now have 4."

[x622]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

My point about text books is they cost a lot of money to manufacture vs. some internet site that can change the words for free. If a scientific text book does not meet academic standards (what I meant by peer review) it will not sell and the publisher loses money. And text books teach the fundamentals of science study, which is what I use to judge internet scientific information. The internet is basically full of agenda-driven bullshit. So, no, scientific text books from 40 years ago are not outdated.

The study under discussion here, made no reasoning what effect automation has on reducing truck emissions. I read the article several times and I did not see the tie in into automation. I think we are 5 decades away (if ever) from automated over-the-road trucks. 50 years time is well past most climate scientists prediction of the point of no climatic return.

We're on the exact same page. I have a full archive copy of zlib and I highly recommend anyone who gives a damn about reading to do the same.

[NickyC]

I need to take a picture, but Tesla has been using an abandoned mall parking lot near me for some time to store excess vehicles. Well, that parking lot now looks like a mall from the 90s at Christmas time because there could easily be a thousand vehicles parked there. It seems like the number just keeps growing and growing every time I drive by the spot. I'm not sure if it's a regional hub where they store vehicles for a multistate area or whatever, but it's unbelievable how many cars are parked there now.

I'm not sure if it's people not wanting EVs, or if Musk really upset people by taking away their left-wing propaganda arm Twitter.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Your post about the updated Model 3 Performance had me go look at it on Yesla's site with some interest. Meh, it's still a way-past-its-design-prime Model 3. The headlights are a bit better looking, but the front facia isn't that much of a departure to get me interested. The rear is really unchanged and the overall goofy shape doesn't give it presence, IMO. The interior doesn't say driver's car, it still says eco-themed save the planet pod. So, it's fast and AWD; whoopeedoo.

While the M3 is no beauty queen it's at least interesting to look at. I'd rather forgo the Competition version and have the 3-pedal regular brew because it would be far more interesting to drive. And the M3 recharges in 5 minutes and most importantlyin places where there are good roads to drive it on.

The Tesla might be quicker in a straight line but I suspect some track time will deplete the battery in very short order and not be nearly as much fun as the M3 and then there's the resale value. I'd stick with the M3 all day any day.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Why anyone in Canada would want an EV, even with home charging is a mystery to me because every part of the country gets first shot at a polar vortex.

It's primarily the cities of Vancouver/Victoria, Toronto, Ottawa & Montreal. All bastions of very progressive liberal green enthusiasm.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Your grammar is not correct. "... supposedly I now have 4."

No, because adding 2 and 2 *does equal 4. The only supposition is in whether i have apples. But keep *equivocating.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by murderspice

No, because adding 2 and 2 *does equal 4. The only supposition is in whether i have apples. But keep *equivocating.

Then you would correctly write that as: "I have two (2) supposed apples, if I add another two (2) supposed apples, then I'd have four (4) supposed apples." i.e. you think the object of the count of two may be apples; they could be another type of fruit similar to an apple, like a Chinese pear.

Why do you people like to try and give others headaches?

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Then you would correctly write that as: "I have two (2) supposed apples, if I add another two (2) supposed apples, then I'd have four (4) supposed apples." i.e. you think the object of the count of two may be apples; they could be another type of fruit similar to an apple, like a Chinese pear.

Why do you people like to try and give others headaches?

Anything but argue the substance, i suppose. Enjoy your circle jerk.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by murderspice

Anything but argue the substance, i suppose. Enjoy your circle jerk.

Deal with your own limitations. I don't need to.

[Humdizzle]

the new model 3 performance seems to have some good improvements. the styling and seats for one. i agree it seems to be more of a facelift than a new generation. its like 8 years old now. i was listening to the carmudgeon podcast with jason camisa and he said the car is better than an M3 now. His explanation was a bit too far fetched though... basically something to the effect of if its not a high rpm NA engine with a manual and lightweight... why even bother.

[Equilibrandt]

I, for one, would love to see what someone can lap a circuit in the newer Model 3 Performance. It touts a bunch of "Track focused" upgrades, but we all know about Elon/his marketing team/EV Performance car woes. I'd love to see where it stacks up versus other similarly-priced cars on repeated laps of the 'Ring or Suzuka.

Curious to see if anyone'll make meaningful EV track toys that don't Alt+F4 after a few battery cycles. I'd love to see it versus the new i4 LCI and the i5.

Not sure if any of you have driven a 'fast' EV with aggressive regenerative braking, but it's quite... different? Not better, not worse, just a different headspace. Our Taycan and Model Y Performance laps were quite intriguing, being a single speed transmission with a serious sensation of 'engine braking' due to regen. A totally different way to drive fast vs my Miata or M3C.

Originally Posted by beaups

Performance figures or hypothetical 0-60 times? My bike goes 0-60 faster than a M3P at 1/3 the price. Does that make it a useful comparison? Apples and oranges.

If you didn't feel a massive surge of cognitive dissonance as you typed that up, you're clearly not fit for discussion. On what planet is comparing the performance of a bike and a sedan the same as comparing a sedan to a sedan of near-equal performance? Should we throw a Boeing F-16EX Strike Eagle into the 0-60 or MPG calcs? And as for your repeated insistence that everything is hypothetical, I'd direct you to every CarWow review ever where he uses an in-car GPS with an accelerometer to measure 0-60; similar to the twelve Model 3 P videos that came out yesterday.

Good god, move the goalposts further.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

I, for one, would love to see what someone can lap a circuit in the newer Model 3 Performance. It touts a bunch of "Track focused" upgrades, but we all know about Elon/his marketing team/EV Performance car woes. I'd love to see where it stacks up versus other similarly-priced cars on repeated laps of the 'Ring or Suzuka.

Curious to see if anyone'll make meaningful EV track toys that don't Alt+F4 after a few battery cycles. I'd love to see it versus the new i4 LCI and the i5.

Not sure if any of you have driven a 'fast' EV with aggressive regenerative braking, but it's quite... different? Not better, not worse, just a different headspace. Our Taycan and Model Y Performance laps were quite intriguing, being a single speed transmission with a serious sensation of 'engine braking' due to regen. A totally different way to drive fast vs my Miata or M3C.



If you didn't feel a massive surge of cognitive dissonance as you typed that up, you're clearly not fit for discussion. On what planet is comparing the performance of a bike and a sedan the same as comparing a sedan to a sedan of near-equal performance? Should we throw a Boeing F-16EX Strike Eagle into the 0-60 or MPG calcs? And as for your repeated insistence that everything is hypothetical, I'd direct you to every CarWow review ever where he uses an in-car GPS with an accelerometer to measure 0-60; similar to the twelve Model 3 P videos that came out yesterday.

Good god, move the goalposts further.

Agree. The instant available torque is really fun to me. I still haven't gotten bored with it.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

It's primarily the cities of Vancouver/Victoria, Toronto, Ottawa & Montreal. All bastions of very progressive liberal green enthusiasm.

You got the locations right. Full of moroon and liars

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

the new model 3 performance seems to have some good improvements. the styling and seats for one. i agree it seems to be more of a facelift than a new generation. its like 8 years old now. i was listening to the carmudgeon podcast with jason camisa and he said the car is better than an M3 now. His explanation was a bit too far fetched though... basically something to the effect of if its not a high rpm NA engine with a manual and lightweight... why even bother.

Key takeaways from this video:

- the E90 chassis was the last of the real BMW DNA cars
- GM should LS-swap the CT4 Blackwing
- the current BMW 3 Series M CS is overweight and too isolated
- because of the above, the new Model 3P is the better car now

[King_Leonard]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Key takeaways from this video:

- the E90 chassis was the last of the real BMW DNA cars
- GM should LS-swap the CT4 Blackwing
- the current BMW 3 Series M CS is overweight and too isolated
- because of the above, the new Model 3P is the better car now

In case I ever get into an accident with an EV (touch wood), I'd prefer to be in an overweight M3CS.

[x622]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

I, for one, would love to see what someone can lap a circuit in the newer Model 3 Performance. It touts a bunch of "Track focused" upgrades, but we all know about Elon/his marketing team/EV Performance car woes. I'd love to see where it stacks up versus other similarly-priced cars on repeated laps of the 'Ring or Suzuka.

Curious to see if anyone'll make meaningful EV track toys that don't Alt+F4 after a few battery cycles. I'd love to see it versus the new i4 LCI and the i5.

Not sure if any of you have driven a 'fast' EV with aggressive regenerative braking, but it's quite... different? Not better, not worse, just a different headspace. Our Taycan and Model Y Performance laps were quite intriguing, being a single speed transmission with a serious sensation of 'engine braking' due to regen. A totally different way to drive fast vs my Miata or M3C.



If you didn't feel a massive surge of cognitive dissonance as you typed that up, you're clearly not fit for discussion. On what planet is comparing the performance of a bike and a sedan the same as comparing a sedan to a sedan of near-equal performance? Should we throw a Boeing F-16EX Strike Eagle into the 0-60 or MPG calcs? And as for your repeated insistence that everything is hypothetical, I'd direct you to every CarWow review ever where he uses an in-car GPS with an accelerometer to measure 0-60; similar to the twelve Model 3 P videos that came out yesterday.

Good god, move the goalposts further.

I would LOVE to track a M3P or MSP with full suspension. I can't imagine what that feels like shooting out of a corner if you could rotate the damn thing correctly.

Oh and brakes. Jesus christ good breaks too.

How did the braking feel when you used maintenance throttle? What did the breakzone feel like switching from one pedal to the other? Is there a double hit of regen then full force brakes?

[Equilibrandt]

Originally Posted by x622

I would LOVE to track a M3P or MSP with full suspension. I can't imagine what that feels like shooting out of a corner if you could rotate the damn thing correctly.

Oh and brakes. Jesus christ good breaks too.

How did the braking feel when you used maintenance throttle? What did the breakzone feel like switching from one pedal to the other? Is there a double hit of regen then full force brakes?

I've heard "maintenance throttle" used in different contexts, but I'll assume you mean enough 'throttle' to maintain speed and not have regen kick in.

It's a bit of a doozy, honestly, since the moment you let off the throttle, you have a user-adjustable level of regen/engine braking. For me, that demands two foot track driving, because it's not perfectly simple to tell if the regen braking will be enough for your desired corner-entrance speed.

For me, I had regen set to max, which can seriously drag the car if you don't use a maintenance-level of throttle; then, my left foot is hovering over the brake in case I need more. To me, the brake feel pushing into corners is very similar to standard brakes; the handoff between regen braking and friction braking isn't sharp if you have good left-foot modulation. It's not intuitive at all unless you're used to manual driving or two foot feather-braking in a paddle shift car like our Miata.

The only reason I'd like to see this new M3P on a track instead of the old one is because it supposedly has a slider that allows the driver to "set" oversteer or understeer preferences and that's quite intriguing, along with "drift" modes. I wonder if they're similar to the Ford Focus RS's AWD power distribution in drift mode where it powers the modulates power to the rear wheels to kick the rear out.