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      04-25-2019, 04:17 AM   #1
hugo_nz
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CIC to NBT Retrofit Done - Pic Heavy

BEFORE YOU READ ON:

ACRONYMS AND TERMS
Esys - Coding software
ISTA - Diagnostic software
HU_- Headunit
ZGW - Central Gateway Module
CID - Central Information Display
ZBE - iDrive controller
TBX - Touch input ECU for ZBE
MOST - Media Oriented System Transport. Green fiber optic cable
TIS - Technical Information System
FA - Vehicle order listing technical data and option fitted options
VCM - Vehicle configuration management.

After doing the initial installation of the retrofit the kit I was faced with PDC sound and steering wheel track select issues. No amount of coding would fix it, and Bimmer Retrofit suggested a firmware update to the FeNBT box to address it. The problem may have arisen from the fact that my car has a ZGW2-High from factory, and the FeNBT is not 100% compatible with it. Another strange issue was that the NBT would not save my unit settings, so every time the car booted up it would reset to default, which in my car's case is UK MPG etc. So I did install version two today:

* Removed the FeNBT retrofit adapter
* Updated SWFL (both) and BTLD of the ZGW2-High with 8SK software. For my ZGW2-High they were btld_000010f5-003_004_090, SWFL_0000092b-005_018_00, SWFL000010f6-003_004_160. The ZGW now shows up as ZGW2 in esys, where before it was just ZGW (despite being a ZGW2-High)
* Tapped the CAN2 high and low at the CAS
* ZBE3 and Touch ECU are also tapped into CAN2
* Restored original PDC button wiring

The retrofit works 100%. Initially the NBT would not display my top view or PDC, but the sounds worked. I resolved this by doing a fresh FA code with my original FA but with the Zeitkriterium updated to 0712. The retrofit is 100% feature complete and I did not have to do any module swaps or modifications other than flashing the ZGW2 with 8SK software. Also, the car's original wiring is 100% intact, except for 2 splice connectors :-)


FeNBT adapter removed


PDC TSRVC original button wiring restored and working


PDC TSRVC working 100%


Steering wheel list wheel functionality restored

The information above is still relevant as a guide if the ZGW2 route is not viable in your case. Steps like the removal of the COMBOX and USB cable routing as well as the disassembly steps are also still required, even with the 8SK method.

Also, the standard disclaimer applies. The information below is based on my experience and I give no guarantee that the information is applicable or relevant to any other car configuration.

NOTES
Two retrofit options exist for the F12 (again, based on my car and experience. Yours may vary):

1 - Can filter/adapter based retrofit. Mostly plug and play but some compatibility issues. From what I have gathered you would lose some functionality with this method when retrofitting newer HW versions of NBT and any version of EVO.
2 - ZGW Flash method. Possible if you have a ZGW2-High from the factory. Pretty simple install, but a bit more involved from a wiring point of view. There is no loss in terms of functionality, but some hardware replacement would be required when retrofitting EVO.


ORIGINAL POST CONTENT BELOW

Here we are folks. It's been a wee wait while the kit was assembled but it arrived and was installed in an afternoon (no jokes). It is a challenging retrofit if you have no experience with these things. At the very least you need to be able to read wiring diagrams and also have either the knowledge required to disassemble the interior of your car or know how to sear and read the info on TIS. Others have covered more technical details of the install. My writeup will be step-by-step of what I did.


Before starting removed the footwell side carpets, centre console side plastic trim, and trim roof in driver's footwell. Info on how to do this can be found on TIS.


This is the kit. It includes MOST cable, USB cable, Adapter, Touch Module, 2x wiring sets for touch and controller, harness, touch controller, APIX cable, Bluetooth Antenna, HU_NBT.


Roof down and rear head rests out. These are a royal PITA to remove. I find that grabbing on to them and moving side to side is the easiest way to get them out.


Front seats forward as far as they will go. Rear bench out. Again, PITA to get out. Grabbing the outer edges and pulling up is the easiest way to get it out. It takes some effort, but eventually it will budge.


Rear backrest is held in place by two bolts, and once removed can be tilted forward. No need to remove the seatbelts. You have more than enough access to the COMBOX. Note the brace. This has to be removed.


Said brace removed. Little bolt is example of one of the 4 bolts securing the COMBOX to its frame.


COMBOX removed.


COMBOX wiring and MOST disconnected. The little blue tab needs to be pushed out in order for the most cables to be removed.


COMBOX MOST terminated.

At this stage we move to the front. Recline the front seats as far as they can, and move them all they way back.


Locate the ZGW underneath the driver's side dashboard.


Remove the MOST connecter, and disassemble it in the same manner as the COMBOX MOST.


ZGW MOST terminated.


Old CID removed. Next remove the backing plate.


Basic disassembly done. This is what a 6-series console looks like when it's stripped out like a nuclear winter :-D


Bind up the old CID Apix and power connectors and secure behind the dashboard.


Connect MOST cable supplied with the retrofit kit to the ZGW.


Feed MOST through sidewall into cavity behind the HU.


Connect MOST to the FeNBT adapter.


Remove beige connecter from USB port in armrest storage.


Feed new USB cable underneath the console carrier from HU to armrest storage.


New USB cable connected.


New bluetooth antenna in a neat little wedge between the HU cage and air vents.


NBT hooked up and ready to be tested for the first time.

At this stage the old idrive controller (ZBE2) is still connected.


It works!


USB connection in armrest works.


Touch controller (ZBE3) and Touch ECU connected. This was a more technical step as it requires you to wire the ZBE3 and ECU to the CAN-H, CAN-L, Battery and Ground cables. Not that big a deal. I used splice connectors for a super clean install and the instructions are dead simple to follow.


Touch works. I'm still not convinced about the usefulness of touch input since we drive on the right side of the road, and writing with the left hand is average at best.


The trim surround of the ZBE3 has to be removed since the surround from the ZBE2 stays in the centre console, and fits perfectly around the ZBE3. This can be done without destroying the surround. All you need is a small flat head screw driver and some patience.


ZBE3 in place and fits perfectly.


The instructions call for the PDC Camera buttons to be connected to the FeNBT adapter. Three wires in a 4-pin connector is all it takes. I actually replaced this blue one with a new one which I purchased from BMW, along with new crimp connectors. EDIT: the original order of the wires according to the instructions are FeNBT to car 9->1, 10->2, 8->3 but this order results in inconsistent operation from the switch cluster. On the F12 the 2nd and 3rd wires need to be swapped. The 2nd wire powers the LED below the PDC button, and the 3rd powers an LED the would relate to HDC which I believe isn't present in the F12.


First drive outside with the roof down. The screen is excellent (remember that this is one I ordered from China...not one that came with the kit).

And there you have it. I took the photo of the complete kit on 23 April 2019 at 2:58 PM and the install was done by 5:30pm.

As smoothly as the install went, it is not without challenges. Currently my PDC sounds and steering wheel track buttons do not work. Bimmer Retrofit are working with me to resolve the problem. I also cannot connect to the NBT though OBD despite having ZGH High installed. I will update the ZGW tomorrow to see if that solves the problem, or else connect directly to the NBT using an RJ45 cable. Once I can connect to it I can complete the coding and get my cameras back :-) EDIT: on my kit the coding of the HU was done differently and I simply had to relocate the video pins from input 2 to input 1 to get the cameras back. All working now :-)

To help troubleshoot any potential wiring issues I removed all the unused wires from the harness (more than half of them, in fact). I also initially cut the connector from the 4-pin connected to the PDC button, but have since re-pinned it to a new connector, just in case it ever needs to be reconnected.3

Overall I am very happy with the kit and the support from Bimmer Retrofit. Beyond the headlights there is no way to tell that my car is Pre-LCI, and even then very few of the LCI models (even those with EVO) have the glass screens.

Happy to answer any questions :-)

Last edited by hugo_nz; 05-16-2019 at 05:15 AM.. Reason: Updated to reflect V2 of the installations.
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      04-25-2019, 10:20 AM   #2
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i remember seeing somewhere if u go nbt from cic it makes the hud not work, can u comfirm?
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      04-25-2019, 02:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackliu0527 View Post
i remember seeing somewhere if u go nbt from cic it makes the hud not work, can u comfirm?
CIC to EVO loses the HUD. CIC to NBT you can keep the HUD if you get a HW07 headunit. This is the main reason I went with NBT and not EVO.
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      04-26-2019, 08:57 PM   #4
hugo_nz
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Tanks folks. Update:

I connected the factory mic to the NBT. Simple task and I kept the original pins intact too. I also wired a RJ45 lan cable directly to the quadlock on the NBT for programming. Works a treat.

Initially my GPS performance was poor. Location was way off and my cars movements and direction were not accurately tracked. Tried a few coding options and eventually found coding gyro to aktiv solved the problem.

The only issues still remaining with the retrofit are PDC sounds and steering wheel track select, but Bimmer Retrofit seem to think that this has something to do with my car having ZGW2 High and their adapter being configured for ZGW. They are working with their developer on solution.

Last edited by hugo_nz; 04-27-2019 at 02:29 PM..
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      04-26-2019, 09:10 PM   #5
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Oh, HELL no. There's no F'n way I'd ever attempt that. Glad to hear it's working out. Well done!
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      04-27-2019, 05:19 AM   #6
hugo_nz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson@BimmerTech View Post
That's incorrect info. You will not lose HUD if you go with NBT or NBT EVO.
I was on chat with BimmerTech sales team and it was confirmed to me that HUD would be lost when going to NBT EVO from CIC in my 2011 6-series, and also that BimmerTech does not offer NBT retrofits...only EVO.
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      04-27-2019, 11:38 AM   #7
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Thanks for sharing this! Super helpful.

I'm in the process of doing this myself and also have a CIC iDrive System. Since you used the $300 screen I'm also looking at, is this the kind of thing where I could replace just the screen in a plug-and-play sense and use it as normal until I eventually upgrade the entire iDrive system itself?
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      04-27-2019, 02:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano6 View Post
Thanks for sharing this! Super helpful.

I'm in the process of doing this myself and also have a CIC iDrive System. Since you used the $300 screen I'm also looking at, is this the kind of thing where I could replace just the screen in a plug-and-play sense and use it as normal until I eventually upgrade the entire iDrive system itself?
If you mean using the glass display with CIC, then no. The connectors are different and the CIC display gets power from the car whereas the NBT display is powered by the headunit.
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      04-28-2019, 03:33 AM   #9
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Seriously impressive work there!
Hats off to you sir.
No friggin way I would attempt such a job though!
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      04-30-2019, 08:49 PM   #10
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It actually makes me laugh how utterly unable to do something like this I would be, and I'm a person who does almost all of his own mechanical car work. But the electronics lingo is lost on me. Your first post has phrases like "Updated SWFL (both) and BTLD of the ZGW2-High with 8SK software." I wonder what percentage of people on here have any clue what that means. To me, it might as well be randomly selected words in Swahili.
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      04-30-2019, 11:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson@BimmerTech View Post
Unfortunately my colleague gave you incorrect info. You will not lose HUD but you since you have 677 you will get echo during bluetooth phone calls.

https://www.6post.com/forums/showthr...hlight=nbt+evo
Hi Nelson, thanks. I think the information relates to retrofits done with CAN filters. Going the ZGW route should eliminate any incompatibilities. To clarify, does your retrofit solution not rely on a can filter/adapter?
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      05-01-2019, 12:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie55 View Post
It actually makes me laugh how utterly unable to do something like this I would be, and I'm a person who does almost all of his own mechanical car work. But the electronics lingo is lost on me. Your first post has phrases like "Updated SWFL (both) and BTLD of the ZGW2-High with 8SK software." I wonder what percentage of people on here have any clue what that means. To me, it might as well be randomly selected words in Swahili.
Until two days ago I had no real idea about module firmware either. I mean, I knew the what and why of firmware versions, but I have never attempted to update a module, let alone inject different software into it.

Bottom line though, it's really not that difficult. The retrofit too seems a big deal, but in reality it's just wiring. Nothing magical at all, just wiring :-)
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      05-01-2019, 12:04 AM   #13
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Since I never listen to the radio I only accidentally noticed this morning that my radio reception was gone. Simple fix though. I removed pin 13 from the NBT quadlock and bridged it with pin 15. Isolated the removed pin and, presto, radio reception restored.

I also did some tinkering with my FA file and lo and behold the HU_NBT, KOMBI and AMP now show up in my list of ECU's when connecting through the ZGW in Esys.

Only minor niggle remaining is the GPS location that is a bit erratic.
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      05-03-2019, 02:22 AM   #14
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Leaving a client meeting today the iDrive was dead, and I had a drivetrain and adaptive headlight warning on the KOMBI. Luckily I knew exactly what was causing this. When I initially removed the Bimmer Retrofit adapter one of the CAN2 pins popped out of the quadlock, causing the exact same set of errors. I stopped at an electronics store on the way home to buy a couple of things, and as soon as I got home I checked my CAN2 wiring. The pins were secure, so I checked the splices on the CAN2 lines at the CAS. Bingo! Turns out the wire I used to connect the NBT to the CAN2 network was not thick enough, so the scotch locks did not cut clear through the sheathing, meaning very little splicing was taking place Removed the wire and taped up the CAN2 lines at the CAS and re-spliced at the ZGW using 18AGW wires. Also took the opportunity to do some cable tidying behind the headunit. All in all took around 45 minutes, and a test drive after confirmed everything is working as it should.

The journey continues...
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      05-16-2019, 04:43 AM   #15
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Wee update. With the retrofit done and working 100% I noticed that ISTA was running quite slow when doing its it's initial test and subsequent fault clearing. 5 minutes to do a complete identification with test, and another 5 minutes to clear any errors and re-test. The control unit tree was also a mess since it was looking for CIC, CID, Combox and ZBE2 whilst not knowing what to do with the ZBE3 and TBX. KOMBI and AMP were also showing as red, and obviously NBT wasn't showing at all.

I corrected this in two steps. First was to update the FA, second was to update the VCM with the SVT Actual data. The basic steps re-configured the control unit tree to now show the actual connections, i.e no MOST connection to from the ZGW, etc. AMP, KOMBI and HU_NBT were missing from both ECU and VCM reads now, but I fixed this by running a new TAL calculation and in TAL processing selecting HWInstall only. Esys was also set to update VCM after TAL processing. Presto, all three missing modules show up in both ISTA and Esys. ISTA now does the identification and test in under a minute again.

Oh, and the TBX had a "no coding data" error in ISTA so I injected a CafD in Esys and coded it. Error gone :-)

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      05-17-2019, 10:41 PM   #16
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5/17/2019: Roadtrips are most fun when the passenger can play DJ. Connecting USB devices to the port in the armrest is annoying difficult owing to the angle and stupid sliding cover. So, I figured "why not repurpose the glovebox USB". Took out the glovebox, removed the old USB cable from the main wiring harness, routed it to the cupholders. Used the Dremel to make a neat hole in the cupholder insert for the glovebox USB port. Connected the cable to the headunit and presto, it works. Picks up any device plugged into that port as though it was plugged into a snap-in adapter usually found in the armrest.

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      05-20-2019, 03:52 PM   #17
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Great work.
I am looking to update from CIC to NBT as well.

Quote:
NOTES
Two retrofit options exist for the F12 (again, based on my car and experience. Yours may vary):

1 - Can filter/adapter based retrofit. Mostly plug and play but some compatibility issues. From what I have gathered you would lose some functionality with this method when retrofitting newer HW versions of NBT and any version of EVO.
2 - ZGW Flash method. Possible if you have a ZGW2-High from the factory. Pretty simple install, but a bit more involved from a wiring point of view. There is no loss in terms of functionality, but some hardware replacement would be required when retrofitting EVO.
So why did you go with the adapter retrofit?
From what you have written the no2 option seems easier. Or did I misundersttod sth ?

Do you have PN for the USB cable ?

Im thinking about retrofitting a NBT HW07 HU.
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      05-20-2019, 06:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wlodi View Post
Great work.
I am looking to update from CIC to NBT as well.



So why did you go with the adapter retrofit?
From what you have written the no2 option seems easier. Or did I misundersttod sth ?

Do you have PN for the USB cable ?

Im thinking about retrofitting a NBT HW07 HU.
I updated my post after I discovered that the retrofit adapter wasn't required. I went with it initially as that was what I was advised to do. The ZGW route is not easier as it involves module flashing, wire splicing etc, but it offers 100% OEM functionality. The retrofit method is more-or-less plug and play but then there are functionality issues as I highlighted. #Choices :-)

I don't have part number for that specific cable, no, sorry. I re-used the one already present in the car.
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      05-21-2019, 07:40 AM   #19
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Can you share what was the PROD date of you car and what options do you have? I have 03/2012 640xd with the following:

S609A Navigation System Professional
S610A Headup Display
S614A Internet Preparations
S615A Expanded BMW Online Information
S620A Voice Control
S644A Preparation F Mobile Phone W Bluetooth
S677A HiFi System Professional DSP
S698A AreaCode 2 For DVD
S6AAA BMW TeleServices
S6ABA Control For Teleservices
S6FLA USBAudio Interface
S6NFA Music Interface For Smartphone
S6NRA Apps
S6VAA CICZusteuerung
S6VCA Control For Combox
S508A Park Distance Control PDC
S552A Adaptive LED Headlight
S5A1A LED Fog Lights
S5ACA Highbeam Assistant
S5AGA Lanechange Warning
S5DFA Active Cruise ControlStopGo Function
S5DLA Surround View

Im just curious if everything will be working after I install the NBT HW07.
Did you have to buy any new parts except MOST LOOP , BT Antenna and FM Antenna AMP?
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      05-21-2019, 03:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wlodi View Post
Can you share what was the PROD date of you car and what options do you have? I have 03/2012 640xd with the following:

S609A Navigation System Professional
S610A Headup Display
S614A Internet Preparations
S615A Expanded BMW Online Information
S620A Voice Control
S644A Preparation F Mobile Phone W Bluetooth
S677A HiFi System Professional DSP
S698A AreaCode 2 For DVD
S6AAA BMW TeleServices
S6ABA Control For Teleservices
S6FLA USBAudio Interface
S6NFA Music Interface For Smartphone
S6NRA Apps
S6VAA CICZusteuerung
S6VCA Control For Combox
S508A Park Distance Control PDC
S552A Adaptive LED Headlight
S5A1A LED Fog Lights
S5ACA Highbeam Assistant
S5AGA Lanechange Warning
S5DFA Active Cruise ControlStopGo Function
S5DLA Surround View

Im just curious if everything will be working after I install the NBT HW07.
Did you have to buy any new parts except MOST LOOP , BT Antenna and FM Antenna AMP?
Pretty much all the same options as yours except for ACC, FLA and LDW. Here are my original an retrofit options:

Red=removed, Green=added
1CD,223,229,230,2H9,2PA,2TB,2VA,302,323,387,388,3A G,3MB,423,428,430,441,481,494,4AS,4KS,4ND,4UR,508, 524,5A1,5DL,609,610,612,615,616,620,633,654,677,698,6AA,6AB,6FL,6NF,6NR,6VC,6WA,850,853,877,880,8KA,8S2,8S3,8SM,8TF,8TL,8TN

(6WA came factory installed, but for some reason is not in the FA. This is because 6WA is the base variant of the instrument cluster for the F-xx 6-series)

Most important is that you check your ZGW if you plan on going that route. If it's a ZGW-02 HIGH then you could attempt the same method I used. If it is then you are technically not limited to any specific HW variant of NBT, and can even go to EVO without losing any functionality, though with EVO you need to buy additional hardware (AMP, Antenna etc) and you would have to find a headunit with built in GPS (unless you want to retrofit ATM at the same time $$$).

Regards the FM Antenna, there is no need to buy an AMP unless you (a) really want to and (b) want to spend hours pulling apart almost every panel of the car to route the extra cable to the headunit. Check my post above for the solution.

All in all, everything should work just fine. As much as the cars are built with identical components sometimes there are subtle differences between models. While I can give advice based on my personal experience I cannot guarantee that your experience will be similar. Standard disclaimer applies.
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      05-21-2019, 11:04 PM   #21
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Many thanks once again.
Can you share your car prod date?
I am amazed with what you wrore about the evo... I thought that it must be a nbt with low hw because of the gyro issues. Were there evo head units with built in gyro? Why did you go for nbt and not nbt evo?

And one more question? What is FLA?

Last edited by Wlodi; 05-21-2019 at 11:17 PM..
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      05-22-2019, 02:38 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wlodi View Post
Many thanks once again.
Can you share your car prod date?
I am amazed with what you wrore about the evo... I thought that it must be a nbt with low hw because of the gyro issues. Were there evo head units with built in gyro? Why did you go for nbt and not nbt evo?

And one more question? What is FLA?
My car's original production date is 0311. Maybe the gyro issue is related to xdrive...not entirely sure, sorry.

I purchased my kit from Bimmer Retrofit.

FLA = High Beam Assist

Last edited by hugo_nz; 08-22-2019 at 04:25 AM..
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