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      04-07-2021, 04:59 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Hey Dave? Check it out:

[IMG]
View post on imgur.com
[/IMG]

And, then there was this:

[IMG]
View post on imgur.com
[/IMG]

I'm not your mom Dave - at some point you gotta do your own homework.
Do whatever you want, but your page long replies with lots of questionable data aren't worth my time if I have to research what you just did yourself. I figure you do this so your half baked ideas aren't questioned.
especially when stating bmw is in denial...pot kettle.
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      04-07-2021, 05:02 AM   #508
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Wow, Tesla Model 3 was the #4 best selling car of any type in the UK in March, outselling the BMW 3-series, but doesn't make the top 10 list YTD ... something going on? What changed?

Tesla's famous end-of-quarter delivery ramp-up?

[img]https://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/up...llers_cars.png[/img]

[COLOR="Blue"]For Dave[/COLOR]:
Step 1: Ask your Mom if it's ok to use the computer
Step 2: Navigate to the link above
Step 3: Scroll down 3 pages

The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) is one of the largest and most influential trade associations in the UK. Its resources, reputation and unrivalled automotive data place it at the heart of the UK automotive industry.
New car registration is in March ie anyone who registers it in March gets a 21 year plate. So tesla probably pushed for pending deliveries for this date.
3 series is selling well I thought it wouldn't great to see that.
Also wonder why Mercedes a class is selling well but no mention of 1 series on there.
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      04-07-2021, 07:34 AM   #509
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You've never written a better description of your adult self in your life, huh?
What are you talking about?
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      04-07-2021, 07:48 AM   #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Wow, Tesla Model 3 was the #4 best selling car of any type in the UK in March, outselling the BMW 3-series, but doesn't make the top 10 list YTD ... something going on? What changed?

Tesla's famous end-of-quarter delivery ramp-up?



For Dave:
Step 1: Ask your Mom if it's ok to use the computer
Step 2: Navigate to the link above
Step 3: Scroll down 3 pages

The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) is one of the largest and most influential trade associations in the UK. Its resources, reputation and unrivalled automotive data place it at the heart of the UK automotive industry.
Congratulations, I knew you could do it!

Not sure why anyone would care that Tesla sold 7k 3's in the U.K. in March but thanks for posting.
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      04-07-2021, 11:09 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by David70 View Post

Not sure why anyone would care that Tesla sold 7k 3's in the U.K. in March but thanks for posting.
np, Dave. FYI, here's why people care: they're ignorant, petty & ridiculous.

You see, every year for the last 5 years the same Tesla Q1 talking points get rolled out:

In January, Tesla haters: "ZOMG Tesla Euro sales have imploded!"
In March, Tesla fanbois: "ZOMG Tesla Euro sales are an all-time high!"

What's going on here is 3 things:

(1.) Tesla doesn't have European factories (yet)
So all vehicles must be imported from the US or China - this takes time to make & ship the vehicles.

(2.) Tesla, driven by Musk, batches deliveries by quarter
So he can report great numbers, and get quarterly analyst sunshine.

(3.) Tesla sells as many vehicles as it can produce
So Tesla's sales numbers are irrelevant to anyone not ignorant - Tesla is battery & production capacity limited, thus why they're building factories simultaneously on 3 continents.


If you want to compare to the bigs, VW sells as many BEVs as it can make in a few days, i.e., VW has excess BEV capacity ... so who would you want to be?

The company that sells everything it can make or the company who doesn't?
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      04-11-2021, 10:23 AM   #512
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/146130...flashy-lights/
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      04-11-2021, 08:30 PM   #513
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Sandy Munro has been digging into the ID.4 (after previously digging into a Model 3) and the results are like every company that's been disrupted in the last 20 years:

Old company builds new thing!
but it's really just the old thing with barely enough to make it the new thing (rather than a ground-up new design).

Tesla still has zero competitors from the Bigs except *maybe* Ford.



The coming Chinese imports will probably be Tesla's biggest competitors ...
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      04-14-2021, 09:29 PM   #514
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This is really bizarre - VW releases a "new" platform that's really an old platform, with the suspension of a econobox and a bunch of super heavy unnecessary parts in a car where weight is a key factor ... The no-money quote:
"I thought they were going to design something to compete with Tesla"
"I lost 22% of charge in just a few miles"


This is not the platform that's gonna beat Tesla ... or probably even survive > 3 years.

No wonder Porsche said no thanks!
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      04-15-2021, 07:44 AM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
This is really bizarre - VW releases a "new" platform that's really an old platform, with the suspension of a econobox and a bunch of super heavy unnecessary parts in a car where weight is a key factor ... The no-money quote:
"I thought they were going to design something to compete with Tesla"
"I lost 22% of charge in just a few miles"


This is not the platform that's gonna beat Tesla ... or probably even survive > 3 years.

No wonder Porsche said no thanks!
The worst part is that the platform is not the iD4's only issues. Tech, ergonomics, materials, build quality, driving dynamics, speed, etc are all pretty lackluster and subpar, and don't even get me started on the removal of the rear window switches, one of the stupidest and most ridiculous cost-saving features of any new car.
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      04-15-2021, 07:51 AM   #516
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vw going head first into this all out ev transformation producing such bland looking and performing products was a mistake. I thought you cheered them on for doing so GrussGott
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      04-15-2021, 08:02 AM   #517
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Originally Posted by KRS_SN View Post
vw going head first into this all out ev transformation producing such bland looking and performing products was a mistake.
100% Agree, I thought this was a great article regarding VW and their approach.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...w-has-no-clue/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road & Track
Forget "Voltswagen." VW's Real Problem Is Misunderstanding the U.S. Market. VW has seemingly tried everything to crack the U.S. market—except building a segment-leading car...

The first thing to understand is that Volkswagen's best year on the U.S. market was around 50 years ago. In 1970, VW had roughly 5 percent of the U.S. market share, more than double its 2.21-percent slice of the pie in 2020, per sales tracking firm GoodCarBadCar. In 2012, VW's market share reached a recent high of 3.04 percent, before declining in 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016. The post-Dieselgate sales slump was real, but it was also simply a continuation of a pattern already in motion...

But by chasing our market with more-affordable offerings, VW abandoned most of the premium, Germanic quality that had long set it apart. More worryingly, the segments where VW was strongest—compact hatchbacks and small sedans—started shrinking. After a strong few years, Passat, Golf, and Jetta sales all declined. Then, Dieselgate hit, accelerating the freefall. Suddenly, the company had billions of dollars in fines to settle. In the middle of a far-reaching U.S. expansion effort, VW could no longer afford to burn cash.

The automaker leaned into more profitable efforts, like enlarging the once-compact Tiguan and launching the three-row Atlas, both vehicles aimed squarely at America's SUV-heavy tastes. Both have relatively strong sales, but neither vehicle is segment-defining. Unlike the Hyundai Palisade or Kia Telluride, there is no wait-list for VW's SUVs. They also don't represent the brand particularly well. VW, long known as the purveyor of practical people's economy cars, now makes most of its U.S. dollars on three-row utility vehicles, while striking German-built Arteons sit unsold and the bread-and-butter Golf departs the U.S. market for good...

VW has chosen to push hard into electrification. VW has introduced the ID.4, an electric crossover the company has compared to the Beetle in terms of significance. Hence, "Voltswagen."

Had you never seen the ID.4, you might find this all quite clever. Sure, abandoning decades of brand-building for an EV pun is silly, but VW must be serious about this pivot to electrification if this is, in fact, a serious rebranding. (Some still suspect it's a botched April Fools' Day joke, a theory that's not helped by messaging from VW's German headquarters that contradicts the U.S. division.)

I suspect Volkswagen—sorry, Voltswagen—is actually serious. I just don't think seriousness corresponds to competency. Because despite all of the hype, the name change, and the comparisons to the Beetle, the ID.4 seems absolutely average among all of the EVs on sale today. Its battery range is typical; it looks anonymous; it's no more affordable or compellingly equipped than the EVs that have come before it. I mean, if this is the People's EV, you can see why The People might stick with gasoline.

There's no inherent reason why we should care about the ID.4 any more than the Chevy Bolt, the Hyundai Kona EV, the Nissan Leaf, or even the Tesla Model 3. We've seen no proof of any VW tech advantage or tuning supremacy in the EV space. So when the company proclaims its own seriousness about electrification, it feels like a claim of importance through birthright...

That's the core problem with Volkswagen in America. The company is an underdog that perceives itself as an established winner. Great products come from teams that have something to prove. The Lexus LS, the Tesla Model S, the Kia Telluride—all were designed by automakers seeking to establish (or revamp) a reputation, outsiders breaking in. The only proven way to change minds is to build a product so compelling that it cannot be ignored. VW has been resting on its laurels long enough. If the company wants to win America, it has to be with a winning product. The sooner Volkswagen, or Voltswagen, or whoever, realizes that, the better.
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      04-15-2021, 05:30 PM   #518
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Originally Posted by KRS_SN View Post
vw going head first into this all out ev transformation producing such bland looking and performing products was a mistake. I thought you cheered them on for doing so GrussGott
I did and do! But ... as I've also been saying, the Bigs have a high probability of being disrupted by NewThing because all of their economics and incentives are around OldThing and most legacy Bigs simply can't change and ride OldThing into the dirt. (see the 3 Bs: Border's Books, Blockbuster, Blackberry)

stein_325i's road & track text says it best: VW's new BEV platform is loser. They're being disrupted.

Munro's underbody review of the car is ... Well, it's stunning that the world's largest auto manufacturer can design & build such a dud.

Overall:

* Ford might have something
* Porsche's doing well & Maybe Audi
* Benz seems to be really kicking it up a notch with their EQS designed from scratch and their kickass seeming AMG hybrids

And then all the startups ... and Tesla.

Right now the 2030 global auto market is Tesla's to lose.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      04-16-2021, 12:04 PM   #519
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Let's hope Porsche's latest efforts on their platform will surpass VW's because this beautiful A6 E-Tron Concept that recently leaked will be riding on it.

Audi is definitely winning when it comes to designs right now.
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      04-17-2021, 02:47 PM   #520
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https://www.theguardian.com/business...ric-car-market

I think elon musk took on the Germans but fostered the Chinese who have been desperate to break in to the automotive industry which was the only one to not have the 'made in china' tag.
It's going to be fun.
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      04-17-2021, 05:04 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by KRS_SN View Post
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ric-car-market

I think elon musk took on the Germans but fostered the Chinese who have been desperate to break in to the automotive industry which was the only one to not have the 'made in china' tag.
It's going to be fun.
I think it's the other way around, the Chinese fostered Elon, and I've been saying this for a year now: The Chinese BEV invasion is coming, just like the 1980s Japanese car invasion into the west. It's basic Sun Tsu industrial warfare: attack where your enemy isn't ... and which transportation area is absent Western leadership?

BEVs!

The Chinese have at least 400 BEV startups, and had them WAY before Elon showed up, but they're also actively culling them with a *published* target of ~160, i.e., only the best survive ... so why bring in Elon? BECAUSE THE CHINESE DON'T GIVE A SHIT WHO'S MAKING THE CARS, JUST THAT THEY'RE MADE IN CHINA!

The Chinese aren't stupid - they realize that Chinese branding might be troublesome - so they're spreading their bets by encouraging a Western brand because they learned that lesson in electronics when battling the Koreans or in textiles when battling ASEAN.


And, hmmmm, in what other industry did the Chinese pull this same trick and invite in a Western brand with favorable terms and use that brand to become massive ...



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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 04-17-2021 at 05:10 PM..
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      04-18-2021, 01:58 AM   #522
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@GrussGott
you have a point

https://bydeurope.com/

https://www.just-auto.com/news/byd-p..._id201278.aspx

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...port-for-35000
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      04-18-2021, 04:01 AM   #523
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https://www.ft.com/content/055bf6d2-...a-36f412e1aff7

a sombre reminder about history.
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      04-18-2021, 05:57 PM   #524
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Any large company doing business in China is working closely with the state government and the Chinese are experts at business risk/reward ... ie., if Apple closed up shop in China it would wipe out whole towns - on the other hand, Foxconn is massive, building plants all over the world including in Wisconsin in the US (though wisconsin got scammed on that one).

All of the western auto companies were in China a decade ago and China bought Volvo in 2010 in an attempt to break into the auto market ... but I think it became obvious there was no way for them to outproduce Western ICE...

But then around 2014 the Chinese realized BEVs could be a thing - and western manufacturers were nowhere. Once they started looking at the global transportation, parts, and oil markets they seem to realize they could disrupt the West:
LONDON, Sept. 14, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- 2014 may be called the "first year" of the development of Chinese electric vehicles, with annual sales reaching 74,763, 3.2 times higher than in 2013. With the ascent in the global electric vehicle market, China becomes the second largest market in the world after the United States, eyeing 23.5% market share. Among the top 20 most popular models in 2014, BYD Qin, Kandi K10, Chery QQ3 EV, Zotye E20, BAIC E150 EV and BYD e6 came from China, representing a combined 15.3% share of total sales in the global market.
So of course China would invite Tesla in, just like they did Apple.

Ultimately I think the Chinese are going after the energy market - they want to be the Middle East of 21st century energy.

China is more than happy to let Western countries fight internal sectarian culture wars while they quietly subsume majority production in every industry, and eventually become the World's reserve currency.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 04-18-2021 at 11:56 PM..
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      04-19-2021, 08:18 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Any large company doing business in China is working closely with the state government and the Chinese are experts at business risk/reward ... ie., if Apple closed up shop in China it would wipe out whole towns - on the other hand, Foxconn is massive, building plants all over the world including in Wisconsin in the US (though wisconsin got scammed on that one).

All of the western auto companies were in China a decade ago and China bought Volvo in 2010 in an attempt to break into the auto market ... but I think it became obvious there was no way for them to outproduce Western ICE...

But then around 2014 the Chinese realized BEVs could be a thing - and western manufacturers were nowhere. Once they started looking at the global transportation, parts, and oil markets they seem to realize they could disrupt the West:
LONDON, Sept. 14, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- 2014 may be called the "first year" of the development of Chinese electric vehicles, with annual sales reaching 74,763, 3.2 times higher than in 2013. With the ascent in the global electric vehicle market, China becomes the second largest market in the world after the United States, eyeing 23.5% market share. Among the top 20 most popular models in 2014, BYD Qin, Kandi K10, Chery QQ3 EV, Zotye E20, BAIC E150 EV and BYD e6 came from China, representing a combined 15.3% share of total sales in the global market.
So of course China would invite Tesla in, just like they did Apple.

Ultimately I think the Chinese are going after the energy market - they want to be the Middle East of 21st century energy.

China is more than happy to let Western countries fight internal sectarian culture wars while they quietly subsume majority production in every industry, and eventually become the World's reserve currency.
And once again, the West will sit around arrogantly laughing about how the Chinese have poor quality and can only copy, not invent. We will busy ourselves with all manner of distractions while China gets down to business; the business of being THE dominant global superpower. The last time I was there I was beginning to see electric cars and scooters frequently. I'm really curious to see what it will look like when I finally go back after travel restrictions are lifted. I'll bet there's a significant uptick in BEVs.
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      04-19-2021, 02:10 PM   #526
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Elon is late on his quarterly payment. Perhaps he should use Bitcoin?
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      04-22-2021, 05:58 PM   #527
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      04-22-2021, 06:00 PM   #528
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Elon is late on his quarterly payment. Perhaps he should use Bitcoin?
bully boy tactics will work in the West where Joe investor and publc suck on the tesla juice but won't work in the East.
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