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      01-12-2022, 12:10 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
I cannot help but feel an inflection point is coming where ICE is supposed to be phased out, so manufacturers re-tool for EV, but the demand is just not there at the price point to be anywhere near break even and we are left with a bunch of unsold EV's and semi useless factories or even manufacturers needing a bail out.
I can definitely see that happening, but as I've gotten older (40 in March), I've become much more conservative with my spending.
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      01-12-2022, 02:21 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Just went to Tesla's site, if I want a Model 3 Performance it says I can take delivery next month. But for $60k I'd rather have a Supra.
for 60k I'd rather get a base C8
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      01-12-2022, 02:30 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by davidvan05 View Post
for 60k I'd rather get a base C8
For 60k I’d rather keep the 60k.
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      01-12-2022, 03:36 PM   #48
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for 60k I'd rather get a base C8
Good luck
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      01-12-2022, 05:42 PM   #49
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Just the thought of it is enough.
I hate electric cars
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      01-13-2022, 04:32 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by davidvan05 View Post
5 year breakdown cost is the same as a toyota camry.
For the past 14 years I had a 175 per day commute, so I've studied the cost of switching from ICE to electric in minute detail beginning in 2012 when the Model S was introduced with a 200+ mile range.

Running my E90 as my primary daily driver with an annual miles driven of 35,000 per year, I've kept detailed cost records. I've documented these data on E90 Post at 200,000, 300,000, and 400,000 mile intervals. The only way the compare cost of ownership between ICE and EV is to calculate how many cents per mile it costs to drive the vehicle. This cent/mile model works for any vehicle cost comparison, not just ICE vs. EV.

Through all of the total ownership cost comparisons I ran, the break even of switching to EV from ICE showed (a) gasoline price had to get above $6 per gallon, or (b) the EV price had to be below $35,000. This supports why when the Bolt and Model 3 were introduced to the market, the target price was between $35K - $40K. Looking at the referenced cartechica analysis in this thread uses the wrong math modeling. EVs are not less expensive to own at this point in time.
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      01-13-2022, 06:52 AM   #51
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I don't care about the cost savings or massive insta-torks. I would like some exhaust rumble rumble and some induction noise that doesn't come from speakers.
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      01-13-2022, 07:03 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
For the past 14 years I had a 175 per day commute, so I've studied the cost of switching from ICE to electric in minute detail beginning in 2012 when the Model S was introduced with a 200+ mile range.

Running my E90 as my primary daily driver with an annual miles driven of 35,000 per year, I've kept detailed cost records. I've documented these data on E90 Post at 200,000, 300,000, and 400,000 mile intervals. The only way the compare cost of ownership between ICE and EV is to calculate how many cents per mile it costs to drive the vehicle. This cent/mile model works for any vehicle cost comparison, not just ICE vs. EV.

Through all of the total ownership cost comparisons I ran, the break even of switching to EV from ICE showed (a) gasoline price had to get above $6 per gallon, or (b) the EV price had to be below $35,000. This supports why when the Bolt and Model 3 were introduced to the market, the target price was between $35K - $40K. Looking at the referenced cartechica analysis in this thread uses the wrong math modeling. EVs are not less expensive to own at this point in time.
Detailed work!

I am pretty sure, an even less expensive to run ICE car (say a Honda Civic) will make that calculation even more one sided
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      01-13-2022, 08:41 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by kyriian View Post
Detailed work!

I am pretty sure, an even less expensive to run ICE car (say a Honda Civic) will make that calculation even more one sided
Or any number of cars that do better than 40mpg on the highway. Especially something like a Prius.
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      01-13-2022, 09:11 AM   #54
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Something like Lucid Air is imaginable for me - solid exterior/interior design, comfort, nice performance, massive range.
Yep. I have a reservation deposit on a Lucid Air Pure. I don't expect that they will be selling the Pure until sometime in 2023 but I am happy to wait. At that time I can see if I want the Pure or if there is a better alternative out there. I would love it to be a BMW but I want a performance vehicle with a long range (I only have a 20 amp dedicated circuit for charging) and, at least as of now, BMW is not making that vehicle.
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      01-13-2022, 09:13 AM   #55
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Would love to pick up an i4 M50 as a daily driver. Finally an electric car that does not look like it was built in a back yard shed.
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      01-13-2022, 10:59 AM   #56
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We're a 3 car family (SUV, Sedan, Conv). When it comes time to replace one (likely the sedan) our next car will likely be electric. I don't know how an electric car works as an end all be all solution where we live but it appears to be a great solution for the vast majority of day to day driving.
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      01-13-2022, 11:05 AM   #57
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I wouldn't mind an EV, that being said, I would only want an EV as either a luxury car or commuter. I'm just not into an EV replacing a sporty car or proper sports car. My daily may not be the smallest or sportiest car, but even still its super fun in the canyons and I love to rev out the engine. Even the Taycan Turbo I drove, which is gorgeous, handles great, and super fast, just doesn't do it for me as it lacks elements that I like such as a proper exhaust/engine to rev, a transmission to change gears (auto or manual) and just the feeling of engagement, with the biggest issue being that its priced like an M5 or E63S which has all those aspects I do love.

I think its best suited as an S-Class/7er type of vehicle, something quiet, smooth, and oppulent. So a Lucid would be awesome, but not ready to trust a new company yet. They will also be great in replacing some commuters as it will get rid of the buzzy engines and laggy powertrains and add refinement. The problem is that EV's simply are not cheap enough to be commuters yet, they are still pretty much luxury cars, even the mainstream company EV's like Ford and Hyundai are not cheap.

So I could see myself in an EV, but not yet really.
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      01-13-2022, 11:23 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I wouldn't mind an EV, that being said, I would only want an EV as either a luxury car or commuter. I'm just not into an EV replacing a sporty car or proper sports car. My daily may not be the smallest or sportiest car, but even still its super fun in the canyons and I love to rev out the engine. Even the Taycan Turbo I drove, which is gorgeous, handles great, and super fast, just doesn't do it for me as it lacks elements that I like such as a proper exhaust/engine to rev, a transmission to change gears (auto or manual) and just the feeling of engagement, with the biggest issue being that its priced like an M5 or E63S which has all those aspects I do love.

I think its best suited as an S-Class/7er type of vehicle, something quiet, smooth, and oppulent. So a Lucid would be awesome, but not ready to trust a new company yet. They will also be great in replacing some commuters as it will get rid of the buzzy engines and laggy powertrains and add refinement. The problem is that EV's simply are not cheap enough to be commuters yet, they are still pretty much luxury cars, even the mainstream company EV's like Ford and Hyundai are not cheap.

So I could see myself in an EV, but not yet really.
The upcoming Ioniq 6 sedan could be interesting, or its Genesis counterpart (if they make one).
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      01-13-2022, 11:26 AM   #59
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Quote:
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The upcoming Ioniq 6 sedan could be interesting, or its Genesis counterpart (if they make one).
The ioniq6 like the EQS sadly does not resemble the concept based on spy shots. It now looks more like an economy car.




As for Genesis, the GV70e is beautiful, although based on ICE so likely not going to be the most competitive, and the GV60 sadly looks like a Citroen which is a shame considering Genesis has been on a role for designs until that car.


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      01-13-2022, 11:37 AM   #60
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It is true that it looks like a Dodge Neon on those photos but I just don’t see Hyundai taking such a huge step back in terms of design (compared to Ioniq 5). So I hope the actual production model will offer similar spectacular “retromodern” looks as their Ioniq 5. Agree that the GV60 is a huge letdown in terms of looks (it does look like the Citroen C4 Cactus haha…).
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      01-13-2022, 02:58 PM   #61
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For me I am in process of trading in my F80 M3 for a Model 3 Performance. Everyone's situation is different but I do agree economics doesn't make sense for most people.

For example:
$60,000 Model 3 Performance - $40,000 M3 trade in = needs to offset $20,000 with gas savings. I get free level 2 charging at my work, so with even a best case scenario like mine, it's like a 8 year break even on that difference. If someone was to trade in a $20k car then offsetting $40k is like a 16 year break even with today's gas prices.

There will be more adoption when the EV price is closer to $25-30k and the 50,000 EV chargers across the US gets closer to the 150,000 gas stations in the US. Until then it's a rich person's toy as someone said earlier.
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      01-14-2022, 12:00 AM   #62
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Original article in the OP basically says it comes down to cost for most potential buyers.

Less expensive EV's are coming for general public, rumored $25k Model 2.

GM just announced $30k Equinox EV on Ultium platform. Actually looks decent.


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      01-14-2022, 12:31 AM   #63
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The F-150 Lightning is going to be the most important electric vehicle in my opinion if they can produce enough of them. Hard to resist the usefulness of a truck with the benefits of an EV.

The sooner EV rollouts can head out to the public, along with more renewable and sustainable energy creations for electricity, i.e. nuclear, the better.
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      01-14-2022, 01:54 AM   #64
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so i've been doing some deep diving into these smaller EV vehicles to replace my civic

The claimed range is a bit misleading since my commute is about 70-75 miles round trip with sitting me sitting at 80mph 99% of it. Driving at those speeds destroys the 'claimed' range.

2017 e-Golf has a listed range of 111 hwy. however in looking at a chart on an e-golf forum the consumption goes up significantly with higher speeds. with the range dropping to around 87 if you do 80mph in an ideal scenario.

then add cold weather, tire pressure drop on cold day, needing to use the heater/wipers, deal with headwind, adding a few miles going out for lunch during work... it makes me weary.
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      01-14-2022, 08:14 AM   #65
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You are all focusing on price, the biggest issue is charging, we need maybe a billion chargers (feels like it anyway) dotted all over the country for this to work. This is the obstacle right now.
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      01-14-2022, 09:06 AM   #66
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Quote:
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You are all focusing on price, the biggest issue is charging, we need maybe a billion chargers (feels like it anyway) dotted all over the country for this to work. This is the obstacle right now.
There already are. You can charge at home.
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