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09-29-2013, 07:22 PM | #45 |
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09-29-2013, 09:48 PM | #46 |
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I would take m6 because it is NOT all wheel drive. Then you can still do drifts a la chris harris lol.
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09-30-2013, 12:32 AM | #47 | |
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Once upon a time, BMW's were winning about 75%+ of every comparo on both objective and subjective measures in major Euro and US testing publications. E60, E46, E90, X5 and all their respective M variants, for literally a decade+. I think the M3 probably won 90% of comparison tests and was not the fastest car in most of them. Bottom line is BMW is losing the driving and ownership experience game, which defined the brand but now is being replicated or perfected by the competition instead or just falling behind in terms of fit/finish. Not only this comparo test but there are about a dozen out of Europe and the US saying the same thing.
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09-30-2013, 04:12 AM | #48 | |
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I also dislike Audis interor/exterior design but in such comparo they should compare comfort (as those are limos) but in the first place performance and chasis as the title says - super coupe-sedan comparo... |
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09-30-2013, 05:34 AM | #49 | ||
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09-30-2013, 07:46 AM | #50 |
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Am I the only one that thinks the RS7's rear end looks like a dog poop?
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09-30-2013, 07:47 AM | #51 |
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09-30-2013, 09:05 AM | #52 | |
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Once upon a time 100% of car magazines were based on a Print only business model with very substantial subscription lists and advertising revenues that can only be dreamed of today. The relationships between the auto makers and these magazines were very tight as the auto makers were dependent to them for market reach. Press events and car shows made little impact compared to the penetration of the magazines. Auto makers actually listened to the larger magazines and sometimes made changes in their lineups based on that feedback, a good review sold cars. The magazines shared their subscriber demographics with the auto makers who understood that those demographics were only a portion of their customers actually buying cars. But the market reach was still something that the auto makers couldn't achieve for the same price. Enter the internet. Auto makers could potentially reach everyone (connected that is) for a fraction of the price. The magazines, at least the ones that survived, soon understood that digital ad revenues evolved to be somewhere between 10 to 16 times cheaper than print advertising and the business model changed to page views at any cost. The number of page views is directly tied to advertising inventory, and any type of controversy increases page views which allows them to sell more digital ads. That anyone still listens to the crap written today from those magazines is surprising, there are any number of new startups that actually give objective information, or at least specifically identify subjective views. Many of the newer information outlets actually acknowledge that the rest of the world (those that don't buy car magazines) exist. The allegory of a king (or ultimate driving machine) worked well without the immediacy and bi-directional nature of the internet; to say the king is dead presupposes that the king actually existed. There's a good bit of other changes today also, more stringent regulation and a weaker economy to name a few that have significant impact on the industry. So to the quoted poster, if you had said that you didn't like something and said why, I'd listen. Perhaps not agree, but I'd listen. But comments based on 0-60 times that are so absurd and done in a way to make people run up page views or contrived rating systems that don't make a lot of sense, no. Why do so many people let others speak for them? Two last comments: First, yes, I am in the publishing business (thankfully not the auto segment), you're looking through rose colored glasses. Second, why are the majority of negative comments in this forum from 3 series drivers? |
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09-30-2013, 09:47 AM | #53 | |
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I see what you’re saying, but it seems a little too coincidental that the feedback on recent comparos on BMWs has been resoundingly negative vs the recent past from publications as well as journalists with racing experience, ie Plato, Sabine, Lago, Needel, etc. Also, it’s not like the ad model was changing overnight, as recently as 2012, old BMW models were still winning comparos, just it appears something has changed with the new BMWs and new competition. Also, the reason why 3 series owners get so worked up is because they don’t want the same issues to happen to their cars, which are more performance oriented and was the reason they were bought in the first place. Though it looks like the new M3/M4 is beginning to address some of the very criticisms brought about by some of the publications and enthusiasts alike RE: steering feel, FI throttle response, weight, dynamics, cooling, etc. Also don’t forget that several board members have driven several iterations of old and new M-cars on road and track situations, so I wouldn’t discount those opinions either.
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09-30-2013, 09:54 AM | #54 |
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09-30-2013, 10:07 AM | #55 |
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When the Comparos subjective components are consistently negative, that tells me that BMW isn't spending as much on advertising with the firm publishing the magazine and editing or writing the Comparo. I recall the opposite about 10-15 years ago. BMW seemed to unfairly win on subjective opinion of the "staffers", really the editor. With the amount of subjective content in this particular Comparo, any of the three cars could have won, depending on the editor's taste or liking.
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09-30-2013, 10:14 AM | #56 | |
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412 Audi kw = 412 BMW kw
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09-30-2013, 10:19 AM | #57 | ||
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09-30-2013, 10:37 AM | #58 |
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A fair response, very cool!
I guess it depends on who and what you read. Since I'm in publishing I tend to read everything from mainstream to the ultra obscure, so I wouldn't agree with 'resoundingly negative', though will admit there is some, and some portion of that is insightfully deserved. If you've driven a new 328i I don't really see how you can call it performance oriented. Sportier, fun, ... yes. I'd daresay that the overwhelming majority of 3 series purchases have nothing to do with performance. I understand that perspective here on this forum, BMW's perspective is on total sales and if people are truly honest I'd think the 'enthusiast' market feels somewhat slighted by that. Doesn't mean they don't hear you, lot's of tough choices out there today. For the same reasons I can understand why those with real racing experience would be underwhelmed with some models. I haven't been on a track in 20 years and don't intend on doing so in the near future, but absolutely love my F13 M6. Comfort and luxury AND some portion of a real driving experience in a daily driver!. An E6x M couldn't meet those standards, and I say that with absolutely no disrespect to that platform. For those that want a performance first car I hope the F82 gets you there, to where you want to be. I just want to be somewhere else, and that doesn't mean I'm not an enthusiast. |
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09-30-2013, 10:49 AM | #59 | |
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I get what some of you guys are saying, I own an M6GC and didn't buy it for shear performance, If I wanted that, I'd have bought a different car. I've owned shear performance cars and I couldn't use it for business or as a daily driver.
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09-30-2013, 11:06 AM | #60 |
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Maybe not then lol. From what I've seen, seems to handle the cars better vs journalists, was pretty apparant in the 25 yrs of M video. But yeah, Pobst is another guy who has been kind of anti-BMW, for awhile actually.
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09-30-2013, 11:30 AM | #61 | ||
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09-30-2013, 12:57 PM | #62 |
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What Audi exterior aesthetics are they talking about??? The RS7 is hidious looking from the back. It's a non-starter for me.
The CLS looks like a carnival ride with all of the LED lights on it. The GC is the clear winner. By the way, they should have tested a GC with competition package. It would have matched, if not beat, the other cars' 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. |
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09-30-2013, 01:08 PM | #63 | |
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RWD makes me hesitated for driving it in GTA winter, makes me worry about I gonna killing myself, Makes me think thousands of times of trading in 650GC for it or not, but can't get answer.
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09-30-2013, 01:36 PM | #64 |
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I think whats crazy here is that the rs7 fully loaded is 131k while the s7 fully loaded is 103k.
Close to the same difference with the 650 gc compared to the m6 gc. That being said, I am probably going to turn in my 650 gc for a m6 gc sooner or later. |
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10-01-2013, 09:10 AM | #65 |
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10-01-2013, 09:11 AM | #66 |
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I like your point of view!
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