Even muscle cars aren't cheap

[Nkc]

Speaking of muscle, Trackhawks are going on a fire sale up here in Canada. $31k Canadian pesos off putting it around $80k usd for new 18s.

200 listed for sale.

Test drove one a while back and thought the acceleration was just bonkers considering the thing weighs over 5400lbs. Was considering trading in the SRT but the price difference back then was more than $60k cad so that was quite easy to walk away from.

I have to bring the Jeep in for a recall tomorrow and I'm very afraid of walking out with a Trackhawk. On the other hand, if I get the same color, my wife might not even notice. What does one do with a 707hp SUV?

[FrostyDC4]

You can pick up a 18' Mustang GT for 30k in my area



Disclaimer: It will have 235 width a/s tires

[RM7]

Originally Posted by FrostyDC4

You can pick up a 18' Mustang GT for 30k in my area



Disclaimer: It will have 235 width a/s tires

As a 1LE owner, that is a travesty. Don’t know why Ford always clubbed those in the kneecaps with skinny tires.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by allinon72

Most folks can't save $ because they have the financial literacy of a toddler.

Lots do yes, but that does not negate the fact that the COL is now insane & wages have not kept up.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by tuco44

In fact, cars in the US are cheaper than just about anywhere else on earth....

Thanks for proving my point then

[86merc]

The problem with the Mustang and Camaro is that if you option them out the price gets way higher than a base model car. I get it, I like my options too.

I grew up when the Foxbody Mustang (1979-93) was a pretty cheap car. I think you could get loaded 5.0 LX or GT for under $20k. But they had power windows, cruise control, and maybe a sunroof. Pretty bare bones compared to what technology the cars have now. The technology alone in cars today is a reason they are so expensive. I don't mind paying more when I am getting more. Let's talk performance too. 225hp versus 460 hp now? 10" front rotors versus 14" rotors? Suspension that is like a buggy versus something more world class. All of this stuff is why I am ok paying more for "American Muscle" car.

If you want handling and decent N/A power that Camaro 1SS 1LE is a great deal. It is a performer with some nice options. The 2SS gets you more stuff but the price climbs.

If power and drag racing is your game, you can but a supercharged, base model, GT Mustang, with a warranty, for $39,999. They even offer a twin turbo model as well. Even a base car with the new 10 speed auto isn't that much more money and is a beast on the track. Easy 10 second car for $40k. I know a couple guys that have these and added a few mods and run E85. The one is the older, smaller, TVS blower. He still runs 9.8 @ 140. He probably has $45K into the whole set up including drag wheels.

A used Hellcat is another one that you can get for decent money. If you are ok buying a used blower car that is.

I owned a 2011 Mustang GT that I got super cheap with 10K miles on it. I enjoyed it for 3 years and traded it on a 2015 GT. The trade in value I get for my 2011 was $500 less than what I paid for the car 3 years earlier. After de-modding the car it had about $500 in aftermarket parts on it. So drove it for 3 years, ran 11.2 in the 1/4, did great on road courses, and ripped on the Tail of the Dragon. All that fun for $1,000? I'll take that! It just means you have to shop for great deals to take advantage of the savings. But you have a small window of years from new that you can get the most when you sell the car. It is a tricky game. Just remember that cars you drive are not investments. I see the money differential as partly a necessity as well as entertainment costs. As I buy cars I enjoy driving on a daily basis. I refuse to drive a bland and boring commuter. So I have to pay for that luxury.

It amazes that due to vehicle prices increasing people are taking out 72-84 month loans on them. I hear stories of that all the time. And they say they have small down deposits or trade-in values when they buy these vehicles. SUV & trucks seem to be much worse for this scenario.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by 86merc

The problem with the Mustang and Camaro is that if you option them out the price gets way higher than a base model car. I get it, I like my options too.

I grew up when the Foxbody Mustang (1979-93) was a pretty cheap car. I think you could get loaded 5.0 LX or GT for under $20k. But they had power windows, cruise control, and maybe a sunroof. Pretty bare bones compared to what technology the cars have now. The technology alone in cars today is a reason they are so expensive. I don't mind paying more when I am getting more. Let's talk performance too. 225hp versus 460 hp now? 10" front rotors versus 14" rotors? Suspension that is like a buggy versus something more world class. All of this stuff is why I am ok paying more for "American Muscle" car.

If you want handling and decent N/A power that Camaro 1SS 1LE is a great deal. It is a performer with some nice options. The 2SS gets you more stuff but the price climbs.

If power and drag racing is your game, you can but a supercharged, base model, GT Mustang, with a warranty, for $39,999. They even offer a twin turbo model as well. Even a base car with the new 10 speed auto isn't that much more money and is a beast on the track. Easy 10 second car for $40k. I know a couple guys that have these and added a few mods and run E85. The one is the older, smaller, TVS blower. He still runs 9.8 @ 140. He probably has $45K into the whole set up including drag wheels.

A used Hellcat is another one that you can get for decent money. If you are ok buying a used blower car that is.

I owned a 2011 Mustang GT that I got super cheap with 10K miles on it. I enjoyed it for 3 years and traded it on a 2015 GT. The trade in value I get for my 2011 was $500 less than what I paid for the car 3 years earlier. After de-modding the car it had about $500 in aftermarket parts on it. So drove it for 3 years, ran 11.2 in the 1/4, did great on road courses, and ripped on the Tail of the Dragon. All that fun for $1,000? I'll take that! It just means you have to shop for great deals to take advantage of the savings. But you have a small window of years from new that you can get the most when you sell the car. It is a tricky game. Just remember that cars you drive are not investments. I see the money differential as partly a necessity as well as entertainment costs. As I buy cars I enjoy driving on a daily basis. I refuse to drive a bland and boring commuter. So I have to pay for that luxury.

It amazes that due to vehicle prices increasing people are taking out 72-84 month loans on them. I hear stories of that all the time. And they say they have small down deposits or trade-in values when they buy these vehicles. SUV & trucks seem to be much worse for this scenario.

Those dealer modified Mustangs do not run 10s out of the box. Maybe a new Roush does, but I don't think they do either.

Also, you have to have them service the car so out of state buyer = screwed with no real warranty.

Why are you amazed at the 72+ mo terms? That's b/c vehicle pricing is out of control. I normally finance for longest term I can as well. Why not when my CU offers stupid low rates? I also prefer to have my $ in the bank vs big down payment. I could always use that $ to pay down the loan later if I so desire.

[86merc]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

Those dealer modified Mustangs do not run 10s out of the box. Maybe a new Roush does, but I don't think they do either.

Also, you have to have them service the car so out of state buyer = screwed with no real warranty.

Why are you amazed at the 72+ mo terms? That's b/c vehicle pricing is out of control. I normally finance for longest term I can as well. Why not when my CU offers stupid low rates? I also prefer to have my $ in the bank vs big down payment. I could always use that $ to pay down the loan later if I so desire.

More than one dealer is offering that setup. There are 2 or 3 offering the same setup and price. But if you want a warranty at any dealer you can buy a car with a dealer installed Rouch TVS with the 6xx hp set up. It carries a Rouch warranty. But yes, if you buy a Lebanon Whipple or Hellion car I could see an out of state dealer having issues warrantying things engine or driveline related. But any car you might buy and mod could have the same issues no matter the brand. Actually, some brands are harder on modifications than others.

OK, I should have added that both cars were optioned with the 6 speed auto. And we drag race with drag tires. Not stock tires. On stock tires, it isn't gonna run 10's. Why drag race on stock tires? It seems a waste as most of your ET gains come from the first half of the track.

I should have been more specific as why those long terms amaze me. I was raised to save then buy. I get it cars are getting more expensive. But a 7-8 year loan seems pretty crazy for me. Most people are not taking these long terms and leaving money in the bank or investing it. They are buying cars they can't afford unless they take these long terms. Which means they may not have great credit ratings and can't qualify for those great rates. I have several friends that work in dealerships. The stories are scary as to what they will sign on the dotted line to get a car they want to drive. Then the car depreciates faster than they pay off the car. Then trade it in on another car down the road and roll their upside-down loan into a new loan. Starting a cycle of bad news.

I took the 0% for 72 months that Ford offered when I bought my 2015 GT. For reasons like you stated. Plus I traded in my, already paid off, 2011 GT. So what I owed on the car loan was already reduced by $20k. That let me stay ahead of depreciation. So ya, those great rates and long terms are fine if it is a smart way to finance something versus just a means to an end. An end that is a car someone can't really afford.




It is like any credit. Used wisely it is fine. Used poorly and it can lead to trouble.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by 86merc

More than one dealer is offering that setup. There are 2 or 3 offering the same setup and price. But if you want a warranty at any dealer you can buy a car with a dealer installed Rouch TVS with the 6xx hp set up. It carries a Rouch warranty. But yes, if you buy a Lebanon Whipple or Hellion car I could see an out of state dealer having issues warrantying things engine or driveline related. But any car you might buy and mod could have the same issues no matter the brand. Actually, some brands are harder on modifications than others.

OK, I should have added that both cars were optioned with the 6 speed auto. And we drag race with drag tires. Not stock tires. On stock tires, it isn't gonna run 10's. Why drag race on stock tires? It seems a waste as most of your ET gains come from the first half of the track.

I should have been more specific as why those long terms amaze me. I was raised to save then buy. I get it cars are getting more expensive. But a 7-8 year loan seems pretty crazy for me. Most people are not taking these long terms and leaving money in the bank or investing it. They are buying cars they can't afford unless they take these long terms. Which means they may not have great credit ratings and can't qualify for those great rates. I have several friends that work in dealerships. The stories are scary as to what they will sign on the dotted line to get a car they want to drive. Then the car depreciates faster than they pay off the car. Then trade it in on another car down the road and roll their upside-down loan into a new loan. Starting a cycle of bad news.

I took the 0% for 72 months that Ford offered when I bought my 2015 GT. For reasons like you stated. Plus I traded in my, already paid off, 2011 GT. So what I owed on the car loan was already reduced by $20k. That let me stay ahead of depreciation. So ya, those great rates and long terms are fine if it is a smart way to finance something versus just a means to an end. An end that is a car someone can't really afford.




It is like any credit. Used wisely it is fine. Used poorly and it can lead to trouble.

I guess they can afford the payments if the cars aren't getting repossessed.

The long term doesn't have anything to do w/credit rating. If they have bad credit, they are not getting the car at all or the rate is going to make it so they walk away.

Here's another positive argument for leasing. Not upside down on anything.

[86merc]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

I guess they can afford the payments if the cars aren't getting repossessed.

The long term doesn't have anything to do w/credit rating. If they have bad credit, they are not getting the car at all or the rate is going to make it so they walk away.

Here's another positive argument for leasing. Not upside down on anything.

If someone has poor/bad credit they can still get long-term loans. But at a higher interest rate.


Yes, leasing is very popular due to the price of vehicles nowadays. But in a performance car you could potentially mod may have some drawbacks. One you leave stock might still have some wear that would have to be addressed before turning it back in.

[Graves]

AED tuning put the first stock motor '18 GT in the 8's.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

Lots do yes, but that does not negate the fact that the COL is now insane & wages have not kept up.

Well that's just not true. Overall, wages have outpaced inflation nearly every year for the last 50 years.

Links supporting this fact:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wage-growth

https://www.epi.org/nominal-wage-tracker/

https://www.glassdoor.com/research/a...ith-inflation/









.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

Why are you amazed at the 72+ mo terms? That's b/c vehicle pricing is out of control. I normally finance for longest term I can as well. Why not when my CU offers stupid low rates? I also prefer to have my $ in the bank vs big down payment. I could always use that $ to pay down the loan later if I so desire.

This isn't true, either.

Option for option, a new vehicle is much cheaper now that it was 10, 25, and 50 years a go.

I have data charts to back this up somewhere; I'll see if I can find them.

[allinon72]

The auto industry has been in a mad dash to increase sales since '08. Recently, that's included extending loan terms and raising interest rates. This isn't because of "vehicle costs being out of control", this is because it opens up the sub prime borrower market to vehicles that are 30-40k. They don't tend to pay attention to interest rates because either a) they don't understand interest rates or b) they don't care about the interest rate because they can get into their "dream car."

To deny there's an enormous and growing segment of the population driving around in cars that they have no business being in is laughable. This bubble is second only to student loans in catastrophic outcomes. It is not sustainable.

And if we want to play the "woe is me" card about the "evil 1%", change that number to the top 5%, and everyone with a household income of $166,200 is included. I would bet that includes 99% of the members of this board. We are not evil, we work hard and play hard.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

This isn't true, either.

Option for option, a new vehicle is much cheaper now that it was 10, 25, and 50 years a go.

I have data charts to back this up somewhere; I'll see if I can find them.

Ok, I'd still have travel back to 1967 & buy a loaded up Chevelle for $4k or whatever they were vs the $74k MSRP for my Hellcat.

Yea, same price

[1MOREMOD]

Now you're getting it. Factor in the price of time machine and price now way cheaper

[Mardio]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Now you're getting it. Factor in the price of time machine and price now way cheaper

[Mr Carrots]

Originally Posted by NCThreePedals

No point in having all that power when you can't put it down. Huge pet peeve of mine when people think power adders without the supporting suspension and tire mods necessary will work, you'll just have a death trap that can create smoky burnouts

10k for a whipple stage 2 and install

Ford track pack and bigger brakes for 2kish

305 PSSs square for what, 2k with wheels?

You just took the price of that 30k base A10 GT to about 45k but now have a 700 WHP+ monster with better than PP2 handling.

Great deal imo, you'll kill any BMW on the street except maybe a new M5 and track better than an M2 while doing it

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

10k for a whipple stage 2 and install

Ford track pack and bigger brakes for 2kish

305 PSSs square for what, 2k with wheels?

You just took the price of that 30k base A10 GT to about 45k but now have a 700 WHP+ monster with better than PP2 handling.

Great deal imo, you'll kill any BMW on the street except maybe a new M5 and track better than an M2 while doing it

You think it would handle the 305 wheels and tires with no suspension mods?

[Mr Carrots]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

You think it would handle the 305 wheels and tires with no suspension mods?

Track pack is supposedly closer to gt350 quality suspension upgrades


http://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/newsroom/2016/05/ford-performance-s-track-handling-pack-features-complete-package.html

[Alfisti]

May be a disconnect between the US and here, over here it seems there's not a lot of haggle room, like i said, a used 2018 GT Mustang is well north of $50K here. Have to go back to 2015 to get into the low 40's.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

Ok, I'd still have travel back to 1967 & buy a loaded up Chevelle for $4k or whatever they were vs the $74k MSRP for my Hellcat.

Yea, same price

Well, $4,000 in 1967 is worth approx. $32,476 today. The Chevelle that stickered at that price in 1967 came with a 3-speed manual, bias ply tires, no ABS or other safety devices, didn't have any air conditioning, had roll up windows, vinyl seats and a V8 that put out around 375hp.

So a comparable car today would be the Dodge Charger R/T which has 370hp in it's V8. Comes with WAAAAAAAAAAAY more safety and convenience features and is far more reliable.

Oh, and MSRP is $30,575 after rebate, so still cheaper than the Chevelle.