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      05-06-2020, 10:12 AM   #309
///M4ster Yoda
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Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Let's be honest here BMW is barely an enthusiast brand at this point. All I see is soccer moms and granny's driving X3 and X5s. I barely see any new 3 series on the road here (probably a good thing as it's hideous) and the occasional 5 series with some giant grille 7er thrown in.
Unfortunately, in a world where more than 70% of vehicles sold are trucks, SUVs and crossovers, there's no more room for an enthusiast brand. At least not one that can survive. Everyone here is talking about Porsche, but Porsche only survives today because of its SUVs. The Macan (especially) and Cayenne are funding a relative handful of sales of $125k - $200k enthusiasts cars. I just don't see how any other business model can exist in today's marketplace. And even that's tenuous if the passenger and and sports car markets continue their precipitous decline. My god, 20-somethings don't even care about getting a license never mind buying a car. Can you imagine them flipping to the point that they want to spend $100k on a BMW?
I agree. I laugh at the 20 somethings with no license getting driven around by mommy. It's pathetic and the parents fault.

The difference between Porsche and BMW is that Porsche is using the revenue from SUV sales to continue to make amazing sports cars. Their prestige and heritage will live on. BMW could have gone this route but instead decided to be the German Toyota. They are throwing away all the prestige and heritage and it didn't have to go that way. BMW could have continued to make proper sporty cars along with their other offering.

Instead:
Killed 6MT
Killed DCT
AWD
Heavy Cars
Horrible Electric Steering
Fake engine noises
FWD BMWs

Basically they are now Audi and Audi's are better looking with better interiors.

These are dumb moves that will hurt the brand in the future.
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      05-06-2020, 10:15 AM   #310
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Seems odd even if they were "loosing money" in jt. To me it was more of a marketing initiative. The amount of people I've shared my EU trip with is worth a lot. Its brand building and personalized the experience.

Killing this was a big mistake. Glad I did it, and I would have done it again. Another nail in the coffee of what what made BMW great.
Yup. I've told countless people about our ED adventures that had no idea it was possible.

ED builds brand loyalty. This is a dumb shortsighted move
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      05-06-2020, 10:24 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Yup. I've told countless people about our ED adventures that had no idea it was possible.

ED builds brand loyalty. This is a dumb shortsighted move
But how many people bought a BMW within let's say 6 months because you told them about ED?
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      05-06-2020, 10:29 AM   #312
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this SUCKS..... Does PORSCHE still have Euro delivery for 911s?
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      05-06-2020, 10:33 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Yup. I've told countless people about our ED adventures that had no idea it was possible.

ED builds brand loyalty. This is a dumb shortsighted move
But how many people bought a BMW within let's say 6 months because you told them about ED?
Well. Over the years I got my father to buy 3 BMWs (2 on ED) and my mother in law is currently driving a 5 series. Would that have happened if ED wasn't possible and my wife and I weren't brand loyal? Probably not.

Told my dad that ED was cancelled and hour ago. His response "What an idiotic move on BMWs part"
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      05-06-2020, 10:37 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Well. Over the years I got my father to buy 3 BMWs (2 on ED) and my mother in law is currently driving a 5 series. Would that have happened if ED wasn't possible and my wife and I weren't brand loyal? Probably not.

Told my dad that ED was cancelled and hour ago. His response "What an idiotic move on BMWs part"
So why so many people buying Tesla? Cannot be brand loyalty at all.

I don't really care about the ED to be honest because I grew up there
...lol, but I think it was the right move to cut the program just out of a business prospective.
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      05-06-2020, 10:41 AM   #315
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At the end of the day - things like European Delivery, manual transmission, RWD, ///M cars etc is what made BMWs special and unique cars. It added to the legacy, heritage and mystique of the Brand. The more you strip these things away - well then what truly makes them any different then Lexus, Acura, Audi, Genesis etc.

Porsche is at least still trying to appeal to loyal enthusiasts by offering manuals, keeping NA engines in GT cars and now even putting it in GTS models!
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      05-06-2020, 10:45 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Well. Over the years I got my father to buy 3 BMWs (2 on ED) and my mother in law is currently driving a 5 series. Would that have happened if ED wasn't possible and my wife and I weren't brand loyal? Probably not.

Told my dad that ED was cancelled and hour ago. His response "What an idiotic move on BMWs part"
So why so many people buying Tesla? Cannot be brand loyalty at all.

I don't really care about the ED to be honest because I grew up there
...lol, but I think it was the right move to cut the program just out of a business prospective.
Because they like shitty, fast in a straight line, cars with terrible build quality that have more in common with a toaster then an actual vehicle? :

Honestly where I live which is a highly populated area outside of NYC I see 1 Tesla out of every 300 cars on the road. IMO not that many people outside of Cali and Scandinavia are buying them.
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      05-06-2020, 10:46 AM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
The difference between Porsche and BMW is that Porsche is using the revenue from SUV sales to continue to make amazing sports cars. Their prestige and heritage will live on. BMW could have gone this route but instead decided to be the German Toyota. They are throwing away all the prestige and heritage and it didn't have to go that way. BMW could have continued to make proper sporty cars along with their other offering.
I love Porsche and have been driving 911s for over 20 years, but it's tough to compare the two brands. Porsche, owned by VW, shares its SUV platforms - and costs - across several brands. They can then take presumably higher profits and build very high priced, niche sports cars. BMW is at a great disadvantage being a stand alone company with few cost sharing opportunities. IDK - instead of the German Toyota model, maybe they'd be better off shedding all the low end models and focusing on a handful of higher end, M Performance and M cars.
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      05-06-2020, 10:46 AM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
So why so many people buying Tesla? Cannot be brand loyalty at all.

I don't really care about the ED to be honest because I grew up there
...lol, but I think it was the right move to cut the program just out of a business prospective.
Have you driven a Tesla?

I test drove Model 3 without Performance package.
The car drives and handles much better than new 3series by far. The steering is incredible and direct. It puts power down immediately and obviously shift times are non existent. Its more BMW than the new BMWs. Once interior quality comes around - they will take over. The driving experience is that good!
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      05-06-2020, 10:54 AM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I agree. I laugh at the 20 somethings with no license getting driven around by mommy. It's pathetic and the parents fault.

The difference between Porsche and BMW is that Porsche is using the revenue from SUV sales to continue to make amazing sports cars. Their prestige and heritage will live on. BMW could have gone this route but instead decided to be the German Toyota. They are throwing away all the prestige and heritage and it didn't have to go that way. BMW could have continued to make proper sporty cars along with their other offering.

Instead:
Killed 6MT
Killed DCT
AWD
Heavy Cars
Horrible Electric Steering
Fake engine noises
FWD BMWs

Basically they are now Audi and Audi's are better looking with better interiors.

These are dumb moves that will hurt the brand in the future.
You’re entirely right. I’m 23, studying to become a doctor. I still remember fondly my dad’s 330Cic, and I love my current E90 335i. These cars are what BMW used to be about. If I wanted a FWD car with electric steering, I’d buy an Audi, and I’d get a better interior and better service from my dealer. To people my age, the LCI 7 series is downright comical, what with its oversized grill, and the supposedly sporty sedans which BMW built their reputation on through the mid 00s are now bloated and lifeless.

I fell in love with the E46 & E90 because I could actually feel the road. Imagine that! Being able to have a telepathic connection to the road! Try that in a modern BMW...

The modern chassis (and I have had the chance to drive the newer G20 on the track) are floppy. The steering, even on the “M Sport” models, absolutely, unequivocally, sucks. The build quality is nice, sure, but not better than Mercedes or Audi.

The only reason owning a BMW was ever worth it was because of the way they drove. Once they got rid of that, it doesn’t make any sense to buy one, IMHO - Mercedes has brought back the straight 6, and at least there I don’t expect a semblance of road feel.

And a FWD BMW? Shouldn’t even exist. The level of contempt I have for those cars knows no bounds.

In about 10 yrs, when I’ve finished residency and am ready to move on from my E90, I will not be going to a BMW dealer - I’ll probably end up buying some sort of Porsche, or maybe an Audi.
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      05-06-2020, 10:55 AM   #320
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Sad to hear. Bought our 5 series on Euro Delivery and it was an amazing experience. Everything was so well done and made both the car and the trip itself feel really special. It helped push us to buy the car and it's a really unique story that everyone loves to hear. Seems like a great way to build brand loyalty and word-of-mouth marketing so I'm surprised they'd end it. Glad we got to do it.
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      05-06-2020, 10:55 AM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
Have you driven a Tesla?

I test drove Model 3 without Performance package.
The car drives and handles much better than new 3series by far. The steering is incredible and direct. It puts power down immediately and obviously shift times are non existent. Its more BMW than the new BMWs. Once interior quality comes around - they will take over. The driving experience is that good!

Of course I have test drove a Tesla.

I own BMW only since 23 years with currently 6 in my "fleet" two M cars included.

I seriously enjoy my E38 M Sport more than my F82 to be honest.


BMW is changing the brand since years over and over, we need just accept it and take it how it is.

The "good days" are over and BMW will be just another big manufacturer with cars for everyone.
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      05-06-2020, 10:56 AM   #322
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Is this a temporary thing or permanent? Is there a reason why for this? It really going to suck A$$ if it's really the truth, because it's one of the things on my to-do list ::
The reason is stated in the article. Not enough people. It dropped from 2000 to 500 deliveries.
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      05-06-2020, 11:06 AM   #323
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It still baffles me why people keep comparing Porsche to BMW. They are not in the same realm in terms of vehicle/brand focus. It's like comparing Abercrombie to Dolce & Gabana. One is designed to appeal to a MUCH larger/broader audience with much shallower pocketbooks. The other is niche, more singularly focused and targeted at deep pockets.
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      05-06-2020, 11:10 AM   #324
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The reason is stated in the article. Not enough people. It dropped from 2000 to 500 deliveries.
That's surprising, both times I did ED there were multiple deliveries the day I did mine, granted they may not all be from N/A but 500 a year is only like 1-2 a day.
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      05-06-2020, 11:11 AM   #325
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Well damn. This sucks I have family in Germany and Switzerland, would have been nice to do ED but I never got the chance before.
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      05-06-2020, 11:13 AM   #326
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That's surprising, both times I did ED there were multiple deliveries the day I did mine, granted they may not all be from N/A but 500 a year is only like 1-2 a day.
Same here, there were deliveries like every 10 minutes on the big screens, throughout the whole day. It was packed.
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      05-06-2020, 11:14 AM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
The difference between Porsche and BMW is that Porsche is using the revenue from SUV sales to continue to make amazing sports cars. Their prestige and heritage will live on. BMW could have gone this route but instead decided to be the German Toyota. They are throwing away all the prestige and heritage and it didn't have to go that way. BMW could have continued to make proper sporty cars along with their other offering.
I love Porsche and have been driving 911s for over 20 years, but it's tough to compare the two brands. Porsche, owned by VW, shares its SUV platforms - and costs - across several brands. They can then take presumably higher profits and build very high priced, niche sports cars. BMW is at a great disadvantage being a stand alone company with few cost sharing opportunities. IDK - instead of the German Toyota model, maybe they'd be better off shedding all the low end models and focusing on a handful of higher end, M Performance and M cars.
Yes. They also made mistakes as others have mentioned with their horrible looking GT cars that nobody purchased. I think that you are onto something. They should have stayed a higher end "premium" brand. Instead we get the FWD ///M235 monstrosity. Why compete with Honda? Your BMW
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      05-06-2020, 11:17 AM   #328
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Glad I got to experience this once. I was thinking of another ED on the new M3 after a few models years out. Part of me would maybe pay for the program depending on how much renting from Sixt would cost if you want the European driving experience vacation. Plus a M3 might be a bit tight for a family. Hard to imagine they won't ever bring the program back. I thought they just renovated the European delivery lounge recently too. With the current situation travel won't be back to normal for a long time. They cancelled Oktoberfest for the first time since WWII.
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      05-06-2020, 11:20 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
It still baffles me why people keep comparing Porsche to BMW. They are not in the same realm in terms of vehicle/brand focus. It's like comparing Abercrombie to Dolce & Gabana. One is designed to appeal to a MUCH larger/broader audience with much shallower pocketbooks. The other is niche, more singularly focused and targeted at deep pockets.
Hummm

Both German
Both manufacturer sporty/sports cars
Both have racing heritage and prestige
Both make premium vehicles that people aspire to own
Etc etc etc....

So because one cost more to own they can't be compared??
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      05-06-2020, 11:21 AM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
It still baffles me why people keep comparing Porsche to BMW. They are not in the same realm in terms of vehicle/brand focus. It's like comparing Abercrombie to Dolce & Gabana. One is designed to appeal to a MUCH larger/broader audience with much shallower pocketbooks. The other is niche, more singularly focused and targeted at deep pockets.
Hummm

Both German
Both manufacturer sporty/sports cars
Both have racing heritage and prestige
Both make premium vehicles that people aspire to own
Etc etc etc....

So because one cost more to own they can't be compared??
Really?! That's what you took from my statement? Your lack of deductive reasoning shouldn't surprise me.

Fine, let's just go ahead and compare Ferrari with Fiat then. Or let's presume [and pretend] that Panerai or Rolex target the same clientele as Swatch (...with regards to price/cost of entry).
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