BMW i16 is the radical hybrid supercar (and i8 successor) that never was

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by n55f15

This is North American sales

https://www.bmwblog.com/2023/11/03/b...e-months-2023/

still doesn't add up to the number claimed

and of course they are selling well when you sell below MSRP with at least a 10k discount. can anyone get an urus performante, turbo gt, ferrari at MSRP?

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by n55f15

Minus the orange

Attachment 3384109

This car looks like a Maseratti from the front. If you put the trident on the front, it would be uncanny.

Originally Posted by Hassan1490

North America ≠ World

XM is selling really well, and it has surpassed all its comparable rivals

China or Dubai, where is it selling massively exactly?

[LSM]

BMW counts a vehicle sold once it delivers to dealership? Vehicles sit and once dealeship "punches" the car its a sold car evem though it actually is not sold to anyone.

I would say sales are low, 2300 total North American sales is very low and with 700 sold in Q4 is likely even lower with "punched" cars still sitting at dealership

6000lbs gross vehicle weight ? X5 and X6 qualify, you dont need to buy XM to get tax writeoff

Anyway you look at it, XM hasnt produced the sales without massive discounts. These are slow sellers and its not a highly desired car. Value for a 2023 that cost new 160k+ is wholesale now 105k.... thats a massive depreciation hit in 1 year.

Desirable cars with high demand do not depreciate at 35% in one year.

Not knocking anyone who bought one, if you did and love it great. Enjoy it.

XM isnt my deal at all.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by BMWXMBlack

Coming from most recently X5M competition and have owned/driven all the performance SUVs in production, I can tell you that my XM label is faster in a straight line than my X5M comp with racechip. So straight line performance goes to XM label. Driving on streets the XM label handles better due to rear wheel steering at low speeds and feels more planted than my X5M comp at higher speeds. Now I am sure a professional driver on a racetrack in the X5M would probably be faster when pushed to the limits due to its power to weight but as I am NOT a professional driver and am on regular roads all the time, I am not able to push it to the limits so the XM handles better as a daily driver.

Other positives over my X5M comp are the rear seats in the XM label have incredible legroom and are the most comfortable rear seats I have ever sat in. Also, I can carry my downhill MTB easily in the rear with seats folded down and in my X5M it was a hassle trying to get it to fit so I usually drove my suv with a hitch.

Didn’t you know that everyone here is a “purist” who moonlight as racecar drivers when their wives aren’t home?

Why do you think all these grown men need 2-seat track cars? They have to collect those podium finishes. Not like they spend 99.9% of their lives hauling kids around or anything 😂

[rwemersonrw]

Originally Posted by Daaaadadundun

I am getting sick and tired of BMW eternal teasing of an M1 successor. There is always some bs excuse not to build it. Now the excuse is the pandemic and yet they can give us the joke that is the XM.

Next time BMW needs to keep this to themselves and only make an announcement when they actually will release the successor to the M1 or a BMW supercar....

I agree but sadly if they make it they’ll make 10 with a sticker price of 2 million

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by VirtualGuitars

It’s perfectly OK if you don’t like the vehicle I own, but there’s just no need to insult people’s rides. I may not like yours either, but I wouldn’t insult you for it. It doesn’t take much effort to show a little restraint and class.

It's borderline when you feel insulted when somebody expresses his aversion for the design of the car you own. Many colleagues are disgusted by the gril of my i4 but I certainly don't feel insulted.

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by HotRodM4

Just put the S58 or a TT V8 in there ��

I've been speculating on / wishing for this for a few years now.

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

I was having this convo at the meetup over the weekend and the CSL thread got me thinking about it again.

Starting points:

- BMW is trending towards bigger and boxier SUV / crossover styles (XM, for example) though the 3 series is still king
- Ford is spinning off (or looking to spin off) the Mustang brand as a separate entity
- Chevy may follow with Corvette, and are making a "Corvette" SUV ala Urus
- Porsche sort of led the charge with the Cayenne / Macan, but now everyone is doing it
- at the same time, Chevy basically said they switched to a mid engine layout because they had squeezed everything they could out of the previous front engine, RWD layout performance-wise

So. BMW.

IF the trend continues towards SUVs, and IF BMW decides they've gotten everything they can out of the layout / platform after the M4 CS / CSL / M3 CS etc....might they decide to switch to a mid engine layout?

Something like a larger i8, with a hybrid straight 6 twin turbo, and xDrive.

Discuss.

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Start with the i8.

Stretch it to accommodate the S58.

Add one or two of the electric motors from the i4 M50.

Give it ~50-100 miles of electric-only range, the rest of the time it's just a power dump for ~650-700 hp.

Trim whatever weight they can to keep it under 2 tons.

Update the interior but for the love of god give us tactile buttons still and don't force everything onto a giant touchscreen. I could maybe see minimizing the driver's dash in favor of more HUD focus, but keep the ID7 style infotainment in the middle, and make it more angled and symmetrical-ish. Ditch the shifter in favor of push button gears like the Lambos have (huracans and aventadors / revuelto, not the Urus). Keep climate control and door locks and emergency flashers as their own dedicated buttons at a minimum.

Oh and none of this passenger display bullshit Porsche and everyone is doing now. Unnecessary.

Give it x drive if possible for launching and hard driving (yeah yeah purists blah blah, at modern power levels it's just flat out better and safer).

Target a 7 minute (or lower) 'ring time.

Keep the price under $200k.

I think something like that would do extremely well.

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

I went with the '23 G82 as the last gas one before ID8. I plan on keeping this one to 100k+ miles, but who knows.

If they came out with a mid-engine layout supercar style M4...I'd be sorely tempted to switch instead of keeping my current M4.

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

I mean, you could say the same thing about the NSX, AMG GT, etc.

I think if BMW had something that could fill the gap between the M4 and a GT3RS, it would do well. Particularly with C8 corvette competitive looks and performance.

Like, just keep scaling things the same way the M4 vs C8 does.

I'm thinking about it like this:

From $75k-$100k, the M4 is awesome, but the C8 beats it in terms of supercar looks to go with the performance.

From $100k-$200k, you have the AMG GT, 718 higher specs like GTS or GT4, stripped down "poverty spec" 911s (if you're lucky, and not including dealer markups and crap), the NSX, R8 (maybe)(lower specs).

Again this is focusing on the sports aspect moreso than just overall "is there a car from this brand at this price point" otherwise we'd be including SUVs too. The M8 is great, but by all accounts too heavy / touring oriented moreso than performance, while the others listed are much more performance oriented (including the M4, IMO).

BMW simply doesn't have anything at the higher end to take jabs at other supercars. We might have supercar performance or close to it, but nothing in terms of supercar looks + performance.

With prices climbing steadily across the board for pretty much all models and all brands, it makes total sense to me to produce something like this before we're all forced into EVs anyway.

Additional note - while I like the idea of taking the S63 vs the S58, it IS bulkier and heavier (though I'm not sure by how much). So it makes more sense to pair the S58 with a hybrid spec ala McLaren P1 / Porsche 918 since you'd be able to keep the weight down a bit more with a brand that's already gotten pretty chunky.

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Yeah...I mean, ~50% more power, ~200 kg lighter, 3-4x the cost when new and damn near 10x the cost now...it had better win.

Such a gorgeous car though. I do wish BMW had something similar. i8 styling was nice; the performance, not so much. BMW doesn't really have anything to compete with the SLS anymore (maybe the Z8 back in the day?).

On this particular "we almost made it" prototype, I like the front half but the rear needs some work. It's too uniform / squarish / blocky. Needs more angles, needs more character, different taillights, and for fuck's sake recenter the roundel. Basically that whole middle section of the rear should be integrated with the outer "shrouds" for lack of a better term...to me it's a bit jarring / off how the shrouds and diffuser have some decent angles and then everything in between is just flat and straight. I think even just making the taillights more angular in a sideways Y shape or something would do the trick - like, take the current M4 taillights and instead of curved, make them angled. I dunno but that middle section in the rear just seems really off to me.

Oh and these quotes are just a few from the last year, I've talked about dreaming about a mid engine BMW supercar for longer than that. At times I've also speculated on using the twin turbo V8 instead of the I6 as the base powerplant, but it's bigger and bulkier so not sure how well it would work with the given designs. Either way though, you could easily make a 700-800 hp supercar with them especially when combined with an electric motor or two.

[supershaft]

as much as we all want a competitor to a c8, 911 gt3, nsx, etc you guys damn well know bmw isn't into that shit anymore. we all know they can and have the knowledge/heritage to do so but that would take money to make a platform that actually competes and not weigh close to 2 tons. the current platform for the m2/m4 won't cut it especially for those wanting a mid or rear engine layout.

[HotRodM4]

Originally Posted by supershaft

as much as we all want a competitor to a c8, 911 gt3, nsx, etc you guys damn well know bmw isn't into that shit anymore. we all know they can and have the knowledge/heritage to do so but that would take money to make a platform that actually competes and not weigh close to 2 tons. the current platform for the m2/m4 won't cut it especially for those wanting a mid or rear engine layout.

I vote someone gets an M8 and guts it to be ultra lightweight. And there’s our super car 😬Right?

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by HotRodM4

I vote someone gets an M8 and guts it to be ultra lightweight. And there’s our super car 😬Right?

lol what are they gonna do besides chop it in half? The curb weight of the M8 comp is 4200lb and to get it down to even the weight of a GT3RS means subtracting close to 1k pounds.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by HotRodM4

I vote someone gets an M8 and guts it to be ultra lightweight. And there’s our super car 😬Right?

Massive car and def not a sports car. I dont think its possible to subtract enough weight, change the steering, make it handle better etx etc
They dont want a Porsche challenger: even MB gave up and new AMG GT is def a GT car

[HotRodM4]

Originally Posted by supershaft

lol what are they gonna do besides chop it in half? The curb weight of the M8 comp is 4200lb and to get it down to even the weight of a GT3RS means subtracting close to 1k pounds.

Originally Posted by LSM

Massive car and def not a sports car. I dont think its possible to subtract enough weight, change the steering, make it handle better etx etc
They dont want a Porsche challenger: even MB gave up and new AMG GT is def a GT car

Yeah you’re both right.

[6SPDG82]

Originally Posted by n55f15

Minus the orange

Attachment 3384109

So they’re telling us they had the opportunity to build that versus the XM?!

[DCG]

Honestly, if BMW doesn't make this cool i16 Concept Car who really cares anymore!

Sad thing is BMW didn’t even use any of this cool design language for any of their new vehicles. Mind-boggling 🤯!

Tired of all these years of teases from all these car brands and manufacturers. They never put into protection, and they just crank out the same-old same-old stale designs.

[DCG]

Originally Posted by VirtualGuitars

Looks great. To those of you that keep dissing the XM as just the worst vehicle that was ever made…. Have you actually ever driven one?

It does not feel or drive like an SUV. Go test drive one and I think you’ll be surprised.

The interior of the XM is fantastic especially all blacked-out, minus the cheap plastic chrome nipple directional air vents.

To me, the XM is it is physically too large and way too boxy, should’ve been way more aerodynamic and comparable sizing of the X6 platform.

[isenc2]

Okay, now this makes me sad. There could've been a super car that would've been my personal dream car but got canceled? Oh man....