F1 2023: Austrian GP - Spielberg (July 2)

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Priceless

It will be fed back to his whiney ass for years to come.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Last weekend LEW showed his disrespect for the Austrian anthem

I highly doubt that Hamilton did that out of disrespect. Toto Wolff is an Austrian citizen (born in Vienna) and called the Austrian race his "home race". And Wolff also calls the shots about his future at Mercedes. IMHO no ill intentions by Hamilton, just a mere coincidence.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Artemis

I highly doubt that Hamilton did that out of disrespect. Toto Wolff is an Austrian citizen (born in Vienna) and called the Austrian race his "home race". And Wolff also calls the shots about his future at Mercedes. IMHO no ill intentions by Hamilton, just a mere coincidence.

Well , as we know ...We know how LEW can be with his 'childish behavior .
It may be speculation on my part , but I'm pretty sure it was because of the 'Red Bull-ring .
In others words : The Austrian GP was actually Red Bulls home race at the Red Bull-ring .

[///M Power-Belgium]

LEW's & Wolff's behavior at the 2021 Abu Dhabi GP

[andrewmr]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Priceless

Early on I was not a big fan of his. I think mostly because I've always been an Alonso fan and didn't like the whole conflict between the two of them.

As time went on I grew to respect his driving ability... When his fan base started with the whole greatest of all time with his WDC count growing I just started disliking him again (not anything to do with him and more his fan base, but none the less).

I understand that Vettel was blessed with a great car when he won WDC's in 2010-2013. As such it's not hard to understand it was the car. The other RB with Webber driving was third for a few of those years. Vettel didn't really do anything for the rest of his career. He had a chance in the Ferrari but gave it away due to errors. Some his and some due to the team....

Anyway, starting a new dominance in 2014 had Mercedes finishing 1st and 2nd. Same with 2015. And then again in 2016 but this time Rosberg finished in 1st and Hammy was in 2nd. 2017 put Hammy back in 1st with a middle of the pack driver (Bottas) taking the vacant seat after Nico left F1 finishing in third. 2018 was the year where you could make an argument that Hammy was showing it was his skill, and not the car, with both Ferrari and RB finishing between the two Mercedes drivers. 2019 and 2020 put both of the cars back in 1st and 2nd..... I just can not understand people not seeing the car was the star and any front runner would be able to win in the Mercedes. Hell, in 2022 they took another mid pack driver (Russel 15th) and he finished in 4th. Two positions ahead of Hammy. Not the car?????

Sorry, I got carried away.

Anyway we're watching the start of a new dominance with this generation RB. The difference is Max is indeed a better driver than Hammy is/was.

Back to the video. I, as well as so many people I discuss F1 with are SO tired of Hammy's politics and his whining on track. I personally think his time in F1 is over and he could do himself (and his legend) a solid if he left at the end of his contract.


Sorry I got off on rant.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

LEW's & Wolff's behavior at the 2021 Abu Dhabi GP

Constant ear wax ?

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Constant ear wax ?

Well, in the background Checo has his fingers in his ears too and in the thumbnail. LH - GOAT Top 8 or 10 maybe, but stats are like opinions, they changes with the times.

[M5Rick]

This is one reason I think Checo will remain at RBR for 2024 in spite of Monaco '22, you don't just forget these moments, it stays in the blood.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

Well, in the background Checo has his fingers in his ears too and in the thumbnail. LH - GOAT Top 8 or 10 maybe, but stats are like opinions, they changes with the times.

Don't see Checo here

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Even steely wolfy's patience is starting to be squeezed by LEW's non-stop yapping to get everyone that he can't pass out of the way and at the same time ignoring his own four wheels over the white line..

Feels like we have reached the tipping point in Toto/Hamilton relationship.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by andrewmr

While I agree in principle.... you do have drivers like Massa who was one turn from being a WDC without having to resort to the do everything to win type mindset.

While Massa is likable he isn't a world champion. It pays to be ruthless and fight for every point.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

LEW's & Wolff's behavior at the 2021 Abu Dhabi GP

'Better than all the rest''

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Feels like we have reached the tipping point in Toto/Hamilton relationship.

It's obvious now that LEW is fighting his own demons with a hastily re-worked uncompetitive car that is a mish mash of many new parts which won't work well with a mismatched chassis.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

wow, Max really wanted to bone Perez for yesterday. Risking the race win just to stick it to him. #Boldmove

As soon as they broadcast the Red Bull onboard message "We don't feel the risk of boxing is worthwhile" in lap 69 + Verstappen replying straightaway to only need 24 seconds, I started to laugh and thought something along the lines "nah, that's just a bold message to entertain the audience - he's not gonna pit". Red Bull was on the brink of pocketing the Fastest Lap extra WCC point anyway via Perez. But as the Abu Dhabi 2021 race proved, with Verstappen you're never truly done till the race is really done and dusted.

Mutual trust and confidence between driver and his team (especially the pit crew) + convincing your team to allow you to take the risk (aware that Mercedes and Ferrari hope that you will fail and possibly even lose the race in extremis) + making that one-shot attempt (cold tires) after ± 80 minutes of intense racing + successfully pulling it off: that takes a big pair of balls, driving skills and a state of mind of being fully 'in the zone'.

Perfectly executed pit stop, 2s to 2.5s gap ahead of Leclerc after re-entering the track, putting heat into the tires, pushing flat-out all the way to the finish. A calculated risk, rather than a mere gamble.

That display of sheer determination and dominance is also quite intimidating for the rest of the field: "I don't need this point, but let me try grabbing it". IMHO if a Ferrari, Mercedes or Aston Martin driver would have been leading the Austrian race with less than 24 seconds with a pit window of ± 23 seconds, Fred Vasseur, Toto Wolff or Mike Krack would have never granted that ultimate pit stop, except maybe if Verstappen would have been driving one of their cars.

Verstappen may have started a new trend: if a race leader has a comfortable lead during the 5 final laps window (a calculated margin of, say, at least 10 seconds upon re-entry after an ultimate pitstop) he performs an ultimate pitstop to also grab the Fastest Lap point (or to improve the chance of keeping it if he already had it).

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by Artemis

As soon as they broadcast the Red Bull onboard message "We don't feel the risk of boxing is worthwhile" in lap 69 + Verstappen replying straightaway to only need 24 seconds, I started to laugh and thought something along the lines "nah, that's just a bold message to entertain the audience - he's not gonna pit". Red Bull was on the brink of pocketing the Fastest Lap extra WCC point anyway via Perez. But as the Abu Dhabi 2021 race proved, with Verstappen you're never truly done till the race is really done and dusted.

Mutual trust and confidence between driver and his team (especially the pit crew) + convincing your team to allow you to take the risk (aware that Mercedes and Ferrari hope that you will fail and possibly even lose the race in extremis) + making that one-shot attempt (cold tires) after ± 80 minutes of intense racing + successfully pulling it off: that takes a big pair of balls, driving skills and a state of mind of being fully 'in the zone'.

Perfectly executed pit stop, 2s to 2.5s gap ahead of Leclerc after re-entering the track, putting heat into the tires, pushing flat-out all the way to the finish. A calculated risk, rather than a mere gamble.

That display of sheer determination and dominance is also quite intimidating for the rest of the field: "I don't need this point, but let me try grabbing it". IMHO if a Ferrari, Mercedes or Aston Martin driver would have been leading the Austrian race with less than 24 seconds with a pit window of ± 23 seconds, Fred Vasseur, Toto Wolff or Mike Krack would have never granted that ultimate pit stop, except maybe if Verstappen would have been driving one of their cars.

Verstappen may have started a new trend: if a race leader has a comfortable lead during the 5 final laps window (a calculated margin of, say, at least 10 seconds upon re-entry after an ultimate pitstop) he performs an ultimate pitstop to also grab the Fastest Lap point (or to improve the chance of keeping it if he already had it).

Attachment 3219851

You have to take into account RBR is very comfortably leading the World Championship with a dominant car (Perez from 15th to 3rd) with no indications that any team is even remotely close to challenging them in the next races. Max deserves his accolades but if RBR was in a tight fight with any other team in the Constructor's or Driver's championships, that would have given them pause to RECONSIDER going for one extra point. IMO They simply had much less to lose even in a worse case scenario so they were all about going for it.

[Car-Addicted]

An now we know?
Setup woes to blame for track limits violations - Hamilton
Lewis Hamilton says his track limits penalties in the Austrian Grand Prix were a result of a poor setup choice pre-race that hurt his car’s handling.

The seven-time world champion was the first of multiple drivers to pick up a penalty for exceeding track limits, going off four times in the final sector to pick up a five-second time penalty by lap 16 of the race. At the time Hamilton said his Mercedes wouldn’t turn and says it was due to the with a set-up choice that the team had locked in for the start of the race.
“We knew we had a really bad rear end here, so we took out a lot of front wing so that we could go long,” Hamilton said. “Massively under did it, and I was like almost full lock round the last two corners – Turn 10 was just sliding and I couldn’t do anything about it. Through the stops we then added a lot of wing and the car started to slowly come back to at least getting round and staying on the track.”

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

An now we know?
Setup woes to blame for track limits violations - Hamilton
Lewis Hamilton says his track limits penalties in the Austrian Grand Prix were a result of a poor setup choice pre-race that hurt his car’s handling.

The seven-time world champion was the first of multiple drivers to pick up a penalty for exceeding track limits, going off four times in the final sector to pick up a five-second time penalty by lap 16 of the race. At the time Hamilton said his Mercedes wouldn’t turn and says it was due to the with a set-up choice that the team had locked in for the start of the race.
“We knew we had a really bad rear end here, so we took out a lot of front wing so that we could go long,” Hamilton said. “Massively under did it, and I was like almost full lock round the last two corners – Turn 10 was just sliding and I couldn’t do anything about it. Through the stops we then added a lot of wing and the car started to slowly come back to at least getting round and staying on the track.”

He was complaining, as others did, about other drivers exceeding track limits and then saw them penalized, as he did himself. So it sounds like he figured out he would lose less time getting (gambling) his penalties than keeping the car within limits and losing position so kept on doing it. As many drivers there were who got penalized, you have many drivers as well who did not which assumes they were and did keep their cars within the track limits.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by Artemis

IMHO

You have a humble side, uh? Who knew?

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by g21

you don't win in motor racing by taking turns and smiling at people wanting to get through, it's a trait of sporting winners unfortunately

Yes, high-stake competition attracts a certain type. It almost requires that type.

But F1 alone has plenty of contemporary examples to contradict that. Prost, Hill, Häkkinen, Button, Rosberg, and even Hamilton is more congenial. (A bloody crying baby, IMO.) Like Frank Williams said of Mansell, ‘great driver, but I wouldn’t have a beer with.’ And Prost of Senna, ‘he wanted to humiliate you’. (Or something like that.) Verstappen is doing his best to enter that club.

To be clear, If I owned a F1 team, I’d hire Verstappen. We’re here to win.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by Artemis

That display of sheer determination and dominance

Ah, the exuberance of having a car and team working like a Swiss timepiece. Which will last for at least another 2-3 years. Good for them. Then we know what happens. Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, Williams, and Redbull themselves have endless tales of the dry years.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

You have a humble side, uh? Who knew?

"H" in "IMHO" usually stands for "humble", for some it stands for "honest", but it definitely does not stand for "hateful" or "heinous".

It is what it is, but it will become what you make of it. However, you shall refrain from becoming ad hominem. And IMHO you properly understand the meaning of this.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Artemis

....However, you shall refrain from becoming ad hominem. And IMHO you properly understand the meaning of this.

I had to look it up