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      05-05-2020, 04:44 PM   #133
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When is a reporter gonna get the guts to confront a BMW executive about their trash front grille and lexus tail light designs? Someone needs to see the head of design and give him a good hard smack to make sure his brain and eyes are back in place.
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      05-05-2020, 05:19 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by cactusjack View Post
When is a reporter gonna get the guts to confront a BMW executive about their trash front grille and lexus tail light designs? Someone needs to see the head of design and give him a good hard smack to make sure his brain and eyes are back in place.
Reporting is all about YouTube clicks and social media presence.

When was the last time you watched a car review/interview that was unbiased?

RBR - Mercedes fan boy. I'll say whatever I have to get a drive and review of the latest car
Joe Achilles - Mr BMW can do no wrong
Schmee - I'll say anything for an instagram click

The M2CS is perfect example of how marketing has taken over the M division. Let's slap on some performance parts, give it a label, charge a massive amount and People still crawl one another to buy it.
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      05-05-2020, 05:20 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Intonation is lost in text. Relax Mr. Defensive. Nobody is bitter. My question was a sincere one.


P.S. You might want to check the definition of a "fanboy". Outlining simple business decisions are not a component of fanboyism.
You sure had me fooled but maybe it was your own presumptions that got in the way. You said things like there’s “no utility” , well then get a SUV or that BMW cannot make a lightweight passenger car, but aren’t all cars passenger cars?
Overall I think you missed my point and generalized that now all BMW cars need to be super light and be a jack of all trades. That’s not what I said, and I think only BMW knows what they can and cannot make, they’ve surprised us many times and can do it again.
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      05-05-2020, 05:48 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine_surf View Post
I'm sorry but 50% of BMW's now wear an ///M badge????

I knew they are watering the ///M brand down but 50% is ridiculous. Worse part 90% of the population doesn't know the difference between an M3 and a m sport package.

I really miss the days of one or two flavors, limited colors and knowing you had the best because it had the badge...

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      05-05-2020, 08:38 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasi_M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Intonation is lost in text. Relax Mr. Defensive. Nobody is bitter. My question was a sincere one.


P.S. You might want to check the definition of a "fanboy". Outlining simple business decisions are not a component of fanboyism.
You sure had me fooled but maybe it was your own presumptions that got in the way. You said things like there's "no utility" , well then get a SUV or that BMW cannot make a lightweight passenger car, but aren't all cars passenger cars?
Overall I think you missed my point and generalized that now all BMW cars need to be super light and be a jack of all trades. That's not what I said, and I think only BMW knows what they can and cannot make, they've surprised us many times and can do it again.
Our M3/M4's have significantly more utility than a 911. It's part of the beauty of an M. Utility is why some choose an M3 over an M4, so why wouldn't that factor into a P-Car with useless back seats and a "trunk" that is barely good enough for a grocery run. If I have to explain that to you then there's more going on than a simple subtext issue.
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      05-05-2020, 10:07 PM   #138
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Now if only you guys could bring the Hoffmeister kink back...,M and BMW
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      05-05-2020, 10:29 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I'm still unable to accept the reality that BMW is no longer the automaker that I fell in love with. I still like to consider myself a fan, but not in the way I used to. BMW continually shows how tone deaf they are.

There have been a couple things that really broke my heart. One is when they said in a C&D interview that their customers do not want heavy power steering that responds to the road surface. The second was more recent when one of the suits said we should stop romanticizing the E46 M3 and should accept the G20 for being a high speed cruiser that's totally isolated from the road.

Statements like these are proof of a fundamental change in the automaker's identity and priorities. Yes their products are as fast as ever, but they've lost that special character that defined them for generations. Modern BMWs don't feel all that different to drive than Mercs and Audis. The good old days are gone forever.
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I'm still unable to accept the reality that BMW is no longer the automaker that I fell in love with. I still like to consider myself a fan, but not in the way I used to. BMW continually shows how tone deaf they are.

There have been a couple things that really broke my heart. One is when they said in a C&D interview that their customers do not want heavy power steering that responds to the road surface. The second was more recent when one of the suits said we should stop romanticizing the E46 M3 and should accept the G20 for being a high speed cruiser that's totally isolated from the road.

Statements like these are proof of a fundamental change in the automaker's identity and priorities. Yes their products are as fast as ever, but they've lost that special character that defined them for generations. Modern BMWs don't feel all that different to drive than Mercs and Audis. The good old days are gone forever.
And the third is when they said that 80 or 90% of their customers do not know which wheels are driving.
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      05-06-2020, 12:30 PM   #140
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So true, most people care about the badge itself here in the states.

What still amazes me is that there are people buying the real M cars not because they care about the performance but that it was the most expensive model within the series they were interested in. I remember hearing about this 15 or so years ago and my mind was blown.
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      05-06-2020, 12:32 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Our M3/M4's have significantly more utility than a 911. It's part of the beauty of an M. Utility is why some choose an M3 over an M4, so why wouldn't that factor into a P-Car with useless back seats and a "trunk" that is barely good enough for a grocery run. If I have to explain that to you than there's more going on than a simple subtext issue.
911 is not too bad if your kids are under 12ish. I constantly hauled around my 2 little ones in my 911, both in front facing seats. Was it easy? No. Did they have fun? Absolutely!
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      05-06-2020, 12:35 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elitex View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Our M3/M4's have significantly more utility than a 911. It's part of the beauty of an M. Utility is why some choose an M3 over an M4, so why wouldn't that factor into a P-Car with useless back seats and a "trunk" that is barely good enough for a grocery run. If I have to explain that to you than there's more going on than a simple subtext issue.
911 is not too bad if your kids are under 12ish. I constantly hauled around my 2 little ones in my 911, both in front facing seats. Was it easy? No. Did they have fun? Absolutely!
Well that may be true for you, but most people barely want to haul around 12 year olds in a sedan let alone a tiny coupe. I don't have kids, and much like you I can pretty easily make a 911 work as a daily (...although I couldn't load up all of my patrol crap for work without throwing half of it in the "back seats"....aka....little useless leather wrapped pads). We aren't the majority, however. Us making it work doesn't detract from the validity of my statement. Driving a 911 is a sacrifice in some areas to gain in others.
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      05-06-2020, 12:38 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Well that may be true for you, but most people barely want to haul around 12 year olds in a sedan let alone a tiny coupe. I don't have kids, and much like you I can easily make a 911 work as a daily. We aren't the majority, however. Us making it work doesn't detract from the validity of my statement. Driving a 911 is a sacrifice in some areas to gain in others.
I am in agreement with you there. You definitely have to make it work.
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      05-07-2020, 07:44 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine_surf View Post
I'm sorry but 50% of BMW's now wear an ///M badge????

I knew they are watering the ///M brand down but 50% is ridiculous. Worse part 90% of the population doesn't know the difference between an M3 and a m sport package.

I really miss the days of one or two flavors, limited colors and knowing you had the best because it had the badge...
Agreed...
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      05-08-2020, 02:07 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine_surf View Post
I'm sorry but 50% of BMW's now wear an ///M badge????

I knew they are watering the ///M brand down but 50% is ridiculous. Worse part 90% of the population doesn't know the difference between an M3 and a m sport package.

I really miss the days of one or two flavors, limited colors and knowing you had the best because it had the badge...
///Money makes the world go round.
Agreed! Bean counters making the decision here not enthusiasts.
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      05-09-2020, 11:31 AM   #146
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7 pages and no mention of the old G in the blue tracksuit? Who is he? He looks familiar but I can't place him.
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      05-09-2020, 11:45 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnRacer View Post
7 pages and no mention of the old G in the blue tracksuit? Who is he? He looks familiar but I can't place him.
Quote:
Born Leonard Hilton McGurr, FUTURA 2000 established himself as a pioneer when graffiti met the more formal gallery ecosystem in the 1980s. He quickly became known for his radical approach on the street, introducing abstraction to an entirely letter-based discipline, and found himself part of a wider art movement that included the likes of Jean-Michel Basquiat, Keith Haring, and Dondi White. Besides his decades-long career as a contemporary artist, he has achieved great success as a commercial artist, collaborating with several well-known brands.
https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...by-futura.html
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      05-09-2020, 04:15 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
Kind of over the horsepower wars to be honest. Would like some focus on improving driving dynamics and engagement over increasing horsepower.
Agreed, focus on weight loss
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      05-10-2020, 05:05 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by SleepingBMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
Kind of over the horsepower wars to be honest. Would like some focus on improving driving dynamics and engagement over increasing horsepower.
Agreed, focus on weight loss
BMW's tend to be lighter than the competition. Maintaining safety features/mandates and offering the creature comforts everybody will complain about if they aren't standard/optional is a task for a manufacturer. It's a conundrum. Most people expect certain features in a BMW, especially an M car. If the competition offered it and BMW didn't, buyers on the forum would complain despite having a lighter vehicle.
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      05-10-2020, 04:27 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Our M3/M4's have significantly more utility than a 911. It's part of the beauty of an M. Utility is why some choose an M3 over an M4, so why wouldn't that factor into a P-Car with useless back seats and a "trunk" that is barely good enough for a grocery run. If I have to explain that to you than there's more going on than a simple subtext issue.
Agree with Sedan Clan. I could not imagine packing groceries in a 911, you need the utility of a M3. However 911 is a much better and fun car for weekend drives. 911 is kinda like an obtainable supercar. Ideal garage would be a M3 for daily driver and a 911 for weekend.
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      05-10-2020, 04:33 PM   #151
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I would imagine many 911 owners can afford another vehicle to compliment their $100k+ sports car. Most 911 buyers aren't buying them because they can fit more grocery bags in the back.
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      05-10-2020, 04:47 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
I would imagine many 911 owners can afford another vehicle to compliment their $100k+ sports car. Most 911 buyers aren't buying them because they can fit more grocery bags in the back.
Exactly so a M3 to compliment the 911. To me at least, an M3 makes more sense than an M4 due to its utility. If I was buying a close to $100k coupe, I would skip the M4 and stretch into a 911. The M4 like most normal production BMW's would depreciate more rapidly as well.
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      05-10-2020, 10:27 PM   #153
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I would imagine many 911 owners can afford another vehicle to compliment their $100k+ sports car. Most 911 buyers aren't buying them because they can fit more grocery bags in the back.
That's the point. They are two vehicles with different intentions/potential uses, so a cross comparison is silly.
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