N63TU (650i GC) Preventive Maint & Engine Heat Management?

[Ralph III]

UPDATED


2018 BMW 650i, grand coupe, 58k miles. Live in south Alabama, so hot/humid.


Hello Everyone! Long time member on another prominent BMW forum but my first post here. So, here it goes.

We just purchased the above vehicle and I'm trying to perform some preventive maintenance tasks. All of the hoses look good and there are no oil leaks that I can see. ISTA only had a few minor things in history which I deleted. Otherwise, the tree is fully green and remains as such.

I've already changed the plugs and I'll be changing the oil soon but I have a few questions.

1) Have any of you considered installing the lower 90 degree t-stat and are there any negatives in doing so? Our coolant temp is running between 103-105c with oil between 96-100c, as per the hidden menu. It's my understanding that you can suffer a fault code with operating temperatures under 100c? So, you'd have to program the fault out with the installation of a low temp thermostat?

2) Have any of you installed the Sport Oil Cooler Valve made by Gintani or N63Intake, as some recommend? From further research, this seems to not only be useless but also highly detrimental, especially for a stock vehicle. First, your oil is meant to run at a higher temperature (100c +-) as that is where it offers the greatest protection. These higher temperatures also burn off water vapors and other contaminants that are created by your engine. In addition, your OEM oil cooler valve will open to protect the oil from excessive heat anyhow. This makes the Sport Oil Cooler Valve useless as promoted but also harmful, as it does not allow the oil to quickly come up to operating temperature. Consequently, you're vehicle is going to experience additional wear and it's going to suffer from more contaminants within the oil. This is especially true if you often take short trips.

3) Have any of you installed a turbo blanket for the turbos? This would be the extent of such if I did it. I'm a pretty good DIY which includes maintaining our 2007 530xi for many years now. But I have no interest in attempting to remove the 650i down pipes to insulate those.

This car will be my wife's daily driver and we expect to put about 8k miles on it each year. Your input is appreciated.

God Bless,
Ralph

[Luftpost]

Welcome Ralph to the group and congrats on your purchase.

I have been a member on this side of the forum for a few years, and must admit I cannot remember anyone doing any of the above mentioned items. I have never heard of a N63 overheating. What I and others would recommend with this new acquisition, particularly since you are a DIYer, is to check all the fluids (both coolant systems), verify the turbo coolant lines are healthy, as they are known to have slow leaks. There are also some hoses that are included in BMW extended warranty.

Several on here in particular can assist you in greater detail. I would recommend going back through the forum and reading previous posts, as there is lots of info on the above, links, and much more.

Enjoy!

L

[Opie55]

Ditto what Luftpost said. Never heard of anyone doing any of those things and never heard that the N63 has a propensity to overheat.

[TGrits10]

While I will concur on heat management measures not being a thing, I will ask why not? The hot vee is known to be hard on rubber and plastic parts, with the notorious turbo coolant lines as a prime example. Finding ways to reduce peak temperatures could only help longevity right?

[Oris4]

Can’t believe members here are unaware of oil cooler valve and thermostat for this vehicle. Both items and very well known on the n63 various Facebook groups and sworn by. I have the valve and will be soon doing the thermostat. The idea is to lower the heat specially on modded vehicles as these cars are well known for running hot and the various issues that arise because of it

[Opie55]

I'm not sure "unaware" is the correct term. I would have assumed such things exist. Lots of things exist. And while it is true that it is very hot on top of the engine and that heat has a bad effect on plastics and rubber parts, I've not seen anything that suggests additional oil cooling or a different thermostat would make any material difference to that. Exhaust manifolds and turbos are hot no matter what. Stuff them in a shoebox and run some plastic through there and over time the plastic will lose. As for the engine itself, modded cars are a different issue. The OP was not talking about modded cars. He was talking about living in Alabama. I have never seen anything that says something akin to "if you daily drive a 650 in a warmish climate you will have problems with the engine overheating need to do something to address that." It is nearly perpetually above 90 in the summer where I live and I have never once said "my car is running hot" in the more than 5 years I've had it.

[Ralph III]

UPDATED

Hello Everyone and thanks for the replies! Let me clarify a few things.

I always thoroughly research items prior to purchasing them, especially vehicles. It's my understanding that the N63 engine was notorious for having issues due to the design causing excessive heat. Consequently, it lead to BMW implementing the care package and re-designing the motor to the now N63TU versions.

Many apparently still consider it a necessity to take preventive measures to reduce the heat that even the N63TU stock versions produce. The excessive heat, by design to meet gas/emissions requirements, can lead to valve stem seal failure and other expensive repairs.

Anyhow, many recommend going with the lower t-stat and the Sport Cooler Valve to lower the operating temperatures. I think it's a good idea to address the high temperatures that the N63 engine creates, but I don't think the Sport Oil Cooler Valve is something to consider. I think the lower t-stat would be very beneficial though, if you could make the complex system work with it.

__________________________________________________ ___________


So, are all of you saying that you've had no problems with your N63 motors? What type of driving do you do and how many miles do you have on your cars? We keep our vehicles for many years with high mileage. Our 2007 BMW 530xi has 260,000k miles on it and still runs perfectly. I've maintained it myself which includes changing out the mechatronics unit, alternators, water pump (etc). The pic is after I had painted the hood, bumper and side mirrors a few years ago. We gave it to our daughter for college at that time and it still looks new.


Thanks,
Ralph

[Opie55]

All I can tell you is that I have at least glanced at every post on here in over 5 years and it is not an issue that has been discussed. Of course people have had some issues, but generally the N63 has been pretty reliable. But I'm not recalling engine issues attributed to heat beyond external rubber and plastic. With the potential problems you list with those mods it's my view you are creating more problems than you are solving. But do what you want.

[Ralph III]

UPDATED

Originally Posted by Opie55

All I can tell you is that I have at least glanced at every post on here in over 5 years and it is not an issue that has been discussed. Of course people have had some issues, but generally the N63 has been pretty reliable. But I'm not recalling engine issues attributed to heat beyond external rubber and plastic. With the potential problems you list with those mods it's my view you are creating more problems than you are solving. But do what you want.

Thanks Opie and that is really good to hear. I don't see how attempting to lower the overall running temperature of an N63 engine could be a negative thing though? I have changed my position on the Sport Oil Cooler Valve though, from my original post, and see it as detrimental now.

But I created this thread in order to gain direct input from people who actually own a 6 series or a BMW with an N63TU engine. Because people are more likely to post something negative, as seen on YouTube, versus posting something positive in regards to the engine. So, I take a lot of it with a grain of salt.

Otherwise, I truly don't desire to make the aforementioned modifications. This is why I consider your input to be valuable. I am still curious to know how many miles you and others have on your 6 series though?

Thanks,
Ralph

[Walt White Coupe]

I don't know for sure that this reduces the heat build up in the top center of the engine with the turbochargers, but I removed the plastic BMW engine (sound) cover to allow more air to circulate in that area. Seems to me that the cover just traps the hot air in that area.

Also, I use my Corvette for spirited driving so my use of the turbos in BMW is only when I need the power, not just for the fun of it. That also keeps the heat down and I'm sure that prolongs the life the rubber/plastic on top of the engine.

[Ralph III]

Hello Everyone.

I wanted to update the thread because I've developed a solid opinion on a few things upon further research. So, I wouldn't want to be responsible for giving out poor information or voicing a bad opinion. I still think it would be beneficial to lower the overall operating temperature of the N63 engine and this seems to be the overall consensus, however......

1) I no longer think the Sport Oil Cooler Valve is a worthy consideration. In fact, I now think it would be highly detrimental to a stock vehicle.

Firstly: The OEM Oil Cooler Valve is going to open up at high temperatures anyhow. So, that completely negates the purpose of the Sport Oil Cooler Valve as promoted for a stock vehicle.

Secondly: The Sport Oil Cooler Valve is not going to allow the oil to quickly come up to operating temperature and it may prevent it entirely, under certain conditions. This would be detrimental to your engine. Because, hot oil offers the greatest protection and it burns off water and other contaminants created by the engine. The Sport Oil Cooler Valve would retard all of that. This would be especially detrimental if you often take short trips. It's better for the oil to quickly get up to operating temperature, as that is most beneficial for your car. Again, the Sport Oil Cooler Valve would retard that.


2) I still think a lower t-stat would be beneficial versus the 105c one. But it's a complicated system and it's possible going with too low of a t-stat; that a code would be thrown given it's being monitored by the system. So, you'd have to consider that.


Anyhow, I just wanted to add this.


Take care,
Ralph

[JBF650]

Originally Posted by Walt White Coupe

I don't know for sure that this reduces the heat build up in the top center of the engine with the turbochargers, but I removed the plastic BMW engine (sound) cover to allow more air to circulate in that area. Seems to me that the cover just traps the hot air in that area.

Also, I use my Corvette for spirited driving so my use of the turbos in BMW is only when I need the power, not just for the fun of it. That also keeps the heat down and I'm sure that prolongs the life the rubber/plastic on top of the engine.

WWC careful doing this ….. that cover is there to stop intense heat soak to the bonnet , or hood for you yanks hahah, that could eventually damage the paint finish. I’ve asked a number of BMW people about this over the years and they all said leave it in place for this specific reason. The plastic clips break on mine all the time around the small coolant reservoir for the charge coolers and this drives me crazy. I get why you would do it but assume like me you don’t track your 650 so really it’s probably not that necessary.

[JBF650]

Originally Posted by Ralph III

Hello Everyone.

I wanted to update the thread because I've developed a solid opinion on a few things upon further research. So, I wouldn't want to be responsible for giving out poor information or voicing a bad opinion. I still think it would be beneficial to lower the overall operating temperature of the N63 engine and this seems to be the overall consensus, however......

1) I no longer think the Sport Oil Cooler Valve is a worthy consideration. In fact, I now think it would be highly detrimental to a stock vehicle.

Firstly: The OEM Oil Cooler Valve is going to open up at high temperatures anyhow. So, that completely negates the purpose of the Sport Oil Cooler Valve as promoted for a stock vehicle.

Secondly: The Sport Oil Cooler Valve is not going to allow the oil to quickly come up to operating temperature and it may prevent it entirely, under certain conditions. This would be detrimental to your engine. Because, hot oil offers the greatest protection and it burns off water and other contaminants created by the engine. The Sport Oil Cooler Valve would retard all of that. This would be especially detrimental if you often take short trips. It's better for the oil to quickly get up to operating temperature, as that is most beneficial for your car. Again, the Sport Oil Cooler Valve would retard that.


2) I still think a lower t-stat would be beneficial versus the 105c one. But it's a complicated system and it's possible going with too low of a t-stat; that a code would be thrown given it's being monitored by the system. So, you'd have to consider that.


Anyhow, I just wanted to add this.


Take care,
Ralph

Hi Ralph and congratulations on your 650.! I’m sure you will love it.

I’ve read this thread and while I’m no mechanic I do have a reasonable understanding and care for cars. I’ve owned my 2015 650 f13 coupe for almost 5 years now and have never had any issue with it mechanically or with the engine overheating. I live in Sydney Australia and we do get very hot summer temps here and I’ve driven my cars in all manner of temps from 40’ C to -2 ‘ C . Not once has been the slightest problem or concern. I get my cars serviced religiously every year regardless of distance traveled and all routine maintenance is done. Its particularly important to make sure you change your engine oil annually especially with bmw V8’s, particularly the N63 all versions! Oil is cheap!
As for miles or klms driven it’s irrelevant really , I personally don’t do many in my 650 or Range Rover Supercharged. They are mainly occasional cars these days but they do require decent journeys from time to time to keep all running well.
It’s true the hot vee in the 650 runs tremendously hot in the V but the cars cooling systems are perfectly fine in my experience. You will hear the cooling fans run for a short time after switching the car off. As has been suggested to you, check EGR and aux oil hoses that run over the top of the V , these can suffer from heat cycling and start to weep after a while.
I wouldn’t be bothered with putting aftermarket coolers and cooler running. Thermostats ….. just have a good mechanic go through it and check and you should be fine .
What I would spend the money on is decent tyres ! If your car is still running the awful RFT BMW fit then do yourself a favour and ditch them. There are plenty of alternatives all discussed here on this forum. I went with Michelin pilot 4s and will swear by them. Difference is like night and day.
Enjoy your 650 , they are absolutely fabulously cars. Fast, powerful and comfortable motorway cruisers.

Cheers

[jdw1972]

I'm new to the forum as well. I currently own a 2015 650 gran coupe. Been getting the usual backfire on cylinders 1 and 5
Changed all sparkplugs and coils, backfire again, changed injectors 1 and 5,backfire again...but noticed "teardrop" oil leaks from lower pan once its on the lift. Which really leads me to believe upper gaskets as well as lower oil pan and gaskets needs to be replaced. Also upon cold start,of course the infamous "blue smoke" appears...then I thought about pcv valves needs to be replaced or fuel pumps..Any suggestions due to my current symptoms..

[BeantownBriggs]

Former owner of an N63 here, first gen motor (2011 X5). My understanding is that the heat of the turbos bakes the two rear cylinders. Our cooling system was fine, we did the Cust Car Pkg, fixed leaks again and again, we loved the car. I did oil changes every 4-5K miles, from probably ~45K miles on. By 114K miles, it was burning >1qt every 400 miles and getting worse. A service director and an indy mechanic both said the same thing...heat from the turbos scores or damages the rear cylinders, and you burn oil. More and more. I would do anything you can to isolate the turbo heat from the cylinders, and turbo blankets seem very logical. That was our experience, hope your and anyone with an N63 has better luck! Fantastic motor, just not long term durable like most BMW 6 cyl motors.

[SWFLf10]

Originally Posted by BeantownBriggs

Former owner of an N63 here, first gen motor (2011 X5). My understanding is that the heat of the turbos bakes the two rear cylinders. Our cooling system was fine, we did the Cust Car Pkg, fixed leaks again and again, we loved the car. I did oil changes every 4-5K miles, from probably ~45K miles on. By 114K miles, it was burning >1qt every 400 miles and getting worse. A service director and an indy mechanic both said the same thing...heat from the turbos scores or damages the rear cylinders, and you burn oil. More and more. I would do anything you can to isolate the turbo heat from the cylinders, and turbo blankets seem very logical. That was our experience, hope your and anyone with an N63 has better luck! Fantastic motor, just not long term durable like most BMW 6 cyl motors.

I can’t see how the heat would affect the cylinder walls. I could be wrong, but isn’t the main issue with the N63 the valve seals becoming brittle? That then lets oil into the cylinders and burns off, causing the oil consumption issue.

I’m sure the heat causes other issue such as brittle cooling and oil hoses. It also would cause any plastic parts under the hood to become brittle as well.

I know there’s a company that makes turbo blankets for the N63 to help with heat management. I looked into them for my N63TU, but there don’t seem to be options for this application unfortunately.

[rorz12]

Originally Posted by Ralph III

Hello Everyone.

I wanted to update the thread because I've developed a solid opinion on a few things upon further research. So, I wouldn't want to be responsible for giving out poor information or voicing a bad opinion. I still think it would be beneficial to lower the overall operating temperature of the N63 engine and this seems to be the overall consensus, however......

1) I no longer think the Sport Oil Cooler Valve is a worthy consideration. In fact, I now think it would be highly detrimental to a stock vehicle.

Firstly: The OEM Oil Cooler Valve is going to open up at high temperatures anyhow. So, that completely negates the purpose of the Sport Oil Cooler Valve as promoted for a stock vehicle.

Secondly: The Sport Oil Cooler Valve is not going to allow the oil to quickly come up to operating temperature and it may prevent it entirely, under certain conditions. This would be detrimental to your engine. Because, hot oil offers the greatest protection and it burns off water and other contaminants created by the engine. The Sport Oil Cooler Valve would retard all of that. This would be especially detrimental if you often take short trips. It's better for the oil to quickly get up to operating temperature, as that is most beneficial for your car. Again, the Sport Oil Cooler Valve would retard that.


2) I still think a lower t-stat would be beneficial versus the 105c one. But it's a complicated system and it's possible going with too low of a t-stat; that a code would be thrown given it's being monitored by the system. So, you'd have to consider that.


Anyhow, I just wanted to add this.


Take care,
Ralph

All I can say is that when my engine is not fully warmed up it pulls like a freight train!! I definitely think there's merit to a cooler operating engine

[Oris4]

I have the valve and the engine doesn’t take any longer to reach temp it just doesn’t run as hot.

I’m also a firm believer in adding ceratec every third oil change and oil saver every oil change. My car has 90k tuned miles and knock on wood has been running strong with no oil consumption. Both products have plenty of info online and Liqui moly is well known