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      07-15-2021, 10:53 AM   #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Probably not. Expect a touch sensitive control panel similar to that of the i4 and iX with minimal controls.
the i4 is the closest indication to what we will see for the ICE + hybrid series model implementation of idrive 8. The i4 is a watered down implementation of the flagship technology demostrator iX which does away with almost all the hard buttons.

The i4 retains the more hard buttons than the iX but moves most of the climate controls onto the idrive touchscreen.

It is an open question if the ICE volume models implementation will be further watered down and retain more hard buttons in the first implementations vs the i4 given the different levels of "tech forward" customer bases
What a shame. The current combination of touch/buttons is perfect IMO.
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      07-15-2021, 02:04 PM   #838
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The preset buttons and scroll wheels are one of my favorite features of BMW interiors. I don't mind the dual screens as to me it changes nothing as you still have two separate screens and this layout simply moves the infotainment screen a little closer. In fact I don't like the current ID7 gauge cluster so this new one can only get better. However I will really miss the preset buttons and please don't tell me the scroll wheel is going as that would be sad.
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      07-15-2021, 08:53 PM   #839
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I'm glad you have

I own one and don't get to drive it much.

can't wait till summer
Why do you need to wait until summer to drive it?[/QUOTE]

My reason for driving less in winter is because of a simple deduction: I think, Adelaide (where I live in Australia) is home to the worst drivers on the planet. I mean, there are elephants with more commonsense than most drivers down here. Sadly, most accidents here happen in the wet so it makes sense to avoid the roads during rainy periods.

Also, I do drive the beast in winter but more so in summer. I just love warmer weather and prefer sunshine to rain
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      07-15-2021, 10:08 PM   #840
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Dammit! Hate the screen. I really thought BMW achieved peak interior with the G series cars. I find this quite surprising. Maybe an option?
It better be an option. I was already hoping the G87 front and rear bumpers would fix most of what I don't like about the 240 and I would even deal with a lower powered non comp model to get the manual but if the "screens" are standard man at that point I am not sure.

I really want to like the G87 as my last true manual BMW RWD ICE car but stop with the NON enthusiast crap BMW.

Save it for the iM2 or whatever they call it.
Why must EVs have touch screens everywhere? And why is this forcing its way into ICE cars as well? Do people actually want these or are manufacturers just being dicks? There is evidence that messing with a touch screen is more dangerous than driving drunk.

https://www.iamroadsmart.com/campaig...s/infotainment
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      07-15-2021, 11:11 PM   #841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Why must EVs have touch screens everywhere? And why is this forcing its way into ICE cars as well? Do people actually want these or are manufacturers just being dicks? There is evidence that messing with a touch screen is more dangerous than driving drunk.

https://www.iamroadsmart.com/campaig...s/infotainment
This is what Audi did right in the etron GT... traditional interior. Lots of physical buttons. Its the only EV interior I find personally to be one I'd be happy with. BRAVO Audi, BMW please follow suit. I DESPISE using a touch screen for basic functionality and won't buy a car that needs it
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      07-16-2021, 01:54 AM   #842
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Originally Posted by Gdiddy23 View Post
Would love to see bmw come out with a better looking steering wheel or even a flat bottom one. Kinda boring now
Looks like we'll be waiting for the 7-series to get a new wheel. I still think the F-Series M steering wheel was the best.
Volume up and down made sense then!
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      07-16-2021, 02:11 AM   #843
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Canít say Iím excited by the thought of those screens, however Iím a classic analogue dials sort of guy.
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      07-17-2021, 12:24 AM   #844
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Dammit! Hate the screen. I really thought BMW achieved peak interior with the G series cars. I find this quite surprising. Maybe an option?
Couldn't agree more.



This is a 5 series, but it's luxurious, beautiful, and totally functional. Buttons are easy to reach and contoured, easy to find. Volume, presets, track, climate, couldn't be easier. iDrive knob in the right place. Touchscreen still there if you need it.

This is pure BMW. Function first. Everything thoughtfully done.

Now they're losing it, chasing fads and other brands.
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Originally Posted by WWM3 View Post
What a shame. The current combination of touch/buttons is perfect IMO.
Agreed. There is NO functional improvement to moving temp adjustment to the touchscreen and hiding all other climate functions behind a menu. Now the preset functions will just take you more steps. Voice is not a viable alternative. And the iX goes even further, all the iDrive and steering wheel buttons are capacitive. Good luck using that without looking down and hunting for it.

I've called and given this feedback countless times, if they remove everything I like about their cars, there's simply no reason to buy it. You should let them know too!
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      07-21-2021, 03:56 PM   #845
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Originally Posted by FreeDarko View Post
It's funny because some of us hated the steering feedback on the e92 m3 to the point tuners came out with some coding to add some weight and feedback for owners.

When you compare to the e46 the e92 servotronic is somewhat atrocious. Quite frankly my F87 M2 Competition is superior in feedback to my e92 though feel is definitely difficult to mimic with EPS.

Mind you even Chris Harris stated the F80 was "much better then the E92 which was artificial" and he actually owned an e92 as well.


Nonetheless steering feel and feedback is subjective.

However IMO my F80 M3 was definitely a notch below my M2c but I had a 2016 and believe it was improved upon shortly after on the F80 competition which Chris enjoyed for 6 months.
Interesting. The M2 is the first BMW I've owned since an e36, but I've driven a handful others hard at autox, etc. I think there are a few different kinds of "feel." There is road grain and texture. Nice, but not really important. Then there is weight/resistance in proportion to load. Which helps you feel when a front tire is overloaded and slipping into understeer. There is zero of that in my LCI M2 in sport mode (with all traction aids fully off). No clue that you've gone past slip angle and into actual loss of grip. Maybe it is there in comfort mode, but the car can't be driven fast with the traction control on. It's too intolerant of the kind of slip angle street tires need to carry in order to be using all their grip.

At dead center when just driving down the road in the M2, there is actually some road texture coming through the wheel. That tells me there is a good rack under there somewhere, just needs the electronics to do less and let it be.

Iirc Chris Harris drove the M2C and thought the steering was much better. And that seems to match what others have said about the comp vs og. I've heard they finally fully nailed it in the M2 CS... But that's kind of a moot point since it's a much more expensive and limited car. The OG M2's steering may well be better than the generations of BMW you're speaking about. But it's still way worse than it should be.

I'm coming from a 996 and the steering, while lighter in effort, did a great job of telling you exactly when the front tires were fully loaded up and then transitioning into slip. Maybe I just set the bar too high for what I expect from BMW...

Last edited by Dean_Clevername; 07-21-2021 at 04:03 PM..
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      07-21-2021, 04:06 PM   #846
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Originally Posted by tuffode View Post
Because it's not specifically for the M2. The i4 got a similar screen setup, and the regular 2er will be updated to this screen setup in a year or 2 as well.
They need to get the steering feel right in all their cars, not just the m2
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      07-21-2021, 04:08 PM   #847
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Originally Posted by swampfox94 View Post
The lights were worth it for the look over the standard, the WiFi arena for wireless apple CarPlay and heated steering for $1200 it was a fair price in my mind
I guess for some maybe. I don't really see the difference. But I don't really spend any time looking at the front of the car from the front.
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      07-21-2021, 07:31 PM   #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean_Clevername View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeDarko View Post
It's funny because some of us hated the steering feedback on the e92 m3 to the point tuners came out with some coding to add some weight and feedback for owners.

When you compare to the e46 the e92 servotronic is somewhat atrocious. Quite frankly my F87 M2 Competition is superior in feedback to my e92 though feel is definitely difficult to mimic with EPS.

Mind you even Chris Harris stated the F80 was "much better then the E92 which was artificial" and he actually owned an e92 as well.


Nonetheless steering feel and feedback is subjective.

However IMO my F80 M3 was definitely a notch below my M2c but I had a 2016 and believe it was improved upon shortly after on the F80 competition which Chris enjoyed for 6 months.
Interesting. The M2 is the first BMW I've owned since an e36, but I've driven a handful others hard at autox, etc. I think there are a few different kinds of "feel." There is road grain and texture. Nice, but not really important. Then there is weight/resistance in proportion to load. Which helps you feel when a front tire is overloaded and slipping into understeer. There is zero of that in my LCI M2 in sport mode (with all traction aids fully off). No clue that you've gone past slip angle and into actual loss of grip. Maybe it is there in comfort mode, but the car can't be driven fast with the traction control on. It's too intolerant of the kind of slip angle street tires need to carry in order to be using all their grip.

At dead center when just driving down the road in the M2, there is actually some road texture coming through the wheel. That tells me there is a good rack under there somewhere, just needs the electronics to do less and let it be.

Iirc Chris Harris drove the M2C and thought the steering was much better. And that seems to match what others have said about the comp vs og. I've heard they finally fully nailed it in the M2 CS... But that's kind of a moot point since it's a much more expensive and limited car. The OG M2's steering may well be better than the generations of BMW you're speaking about. But it's still way worse than it should be.

I'm coming from a 996 and the steering, while lighter in effort, did a great job of telling you exactly when the front tires were fully loaded up and then transitioning into slip. Maybe I just set the bar too high for what I expect from BMW...
Appreciate the response.

Haven't driven an e36 for more than 30 mins and it was during a winter storm so was going extremely slow due to the lack of proper tires.

Also only drove the OG M2 for quick test drive but didn't pay much attention to anything other than the suspension and engine as I was thinking of going from the F80 S55 to M2 N55 and wanted to see if the power was enough.

Eventually M2c came out which kinda made the M2 a moot point for discussion.

Having said that the M2c was driven in m mode most of the time and traction off completely quite a few times. It was a lot easier to control than the 2016 F80 due to the lack of spike in torque down low in the rpm which was handful in winters here as I preferred the rwd as my daily.

Both the M2c and e92 M3 were quite easy to control once they let go. I don't think I'm qualified enough to address the intangibles of either generation of M cars at the limit but overall I felt the servotronic in the e92 failed in comparison to my M2c and my e46.

Also I don't think you can compare these cars to any of the Porsches. I had a 987 for a week in San Fran 5 years back and that was the first Gen of electronic steering in a Porsche and they hit it dead on. Can only imagine a 996.
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      07-23-2021, 02:49 PM   #849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeDarko View Post
Having said that the M2c was driven in m mode most of the time and traction off completely quite a few times. It was a lot easier to control than the 2016 F80 due to the lack of spike in torque down low in the rpm which was handful in winters here as I preferred the rwd as my daily.

Both the M2c and e92 M3 were quite easy to control once they let go. I don't think I'm qualified enough to address the intangibles of either generation of M cars at the limit but overall I felt the servotronic in the e92 failed in comparison to my M2c and my e46.

Also I don't think you can compare these cars to any of the Porsches. I had a 987 for a week in San Fran 5 years back and that was the first Gen of electronic steering in a Porsche and they hit it dead on. Can only imagine a 996.
Most of my driving is with TC full off since I want to turn auto-blip off and heel-toe myself during daily driving. TC full off is the only way to do that. Which was shocking. And when TC is off you are stuck with sport mode steering and throttle. Luckily they fixed the driving mode independence problem in the M2C. I'm thinking now I shoulda got the M2C, but I didn't want the extra weight at the time.

All that said, I barely ever drive it on the street. Pretty much just to/from autocross or track stuff, where it's always 100% all nannies off or else you can't really dive it. I find it is a really sweetheart over the limit, never bites, easy to correct. Boost can sometimes surprise you, but I think that's more about throttle pedal calibration trying to be overly-smart than anything else. I still think my mom could drift it on a skidpad. Balance and forgiveness is lot like an e46 or e36 in the same conditions. So they got that right. But that's over the limit behavior. Trying to drive right on the limit is hard because you only have your butt and ears to tell you when you're using 100% of your front grip. Makes trail braking on the limit on corner entry a guessing game. Which is frustrating.

There's a good chance I'll be instructing someone who drives an e92 m3 in about a month, so I'll finally get to take some hard runs in one. I'm curious to feel the servotronic difference you're speaking of.

And yeah, probably not fair to compare anyone's steering tuning to Porsche's haha. But I honestly find the steering in my wife's Subaru Outback to be better than my M2, in terms of feedback about tire load. It shocks me every time!
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      08-03-2021, 03:38 PM   #850
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Come on BMW, we want more spy shots!
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      08-03-2021, 03:56 PM   #851
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Come on BMW, we want more spy shots!
After how long it took to get less camo on the G42. Donít hold your breath.
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      08-03-2021, 04:24 PM   #852
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After how long it took to get less camo on the G42. Donít hold your breath.
But that was the release of a whole new platform...so maybe they were keeping that more under wraps?

Just wishful thinking.
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      08-03-2021, 05:25 PM   #853
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lemetier Are you able to share what the internal code name is for the G87?I would assume that at this stage of development the BMW engineers would have given an internal code name by now.I am very interested in finding out if BMW have continued on with the PYRAT name.The 1M was PYRAT and the M2 was PYRAT2.Is the G87 PYRAT3?
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