SBA PPP loan thread

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

This is per the new explanation of rules? So even if on Feb 15 I had 43 employees, and now that number is 21, if funded PPP today I would only need to maintain 21 on 12/31?

No, I think it goes back to your pre COVID numbers, there are some alternatives for seasonal businesses.


Alternative Counting Methods. Under the FAQs, the number of employees may be measured using any of the following methods: (1) average number of employees for the last 12 months; (2) average number of employees for 2019; or (3) average number of employees per pay period in the 12 completed calendar months before the loan application.

"Seasonal businesses may use the average number of employees from February 15, 2019 or March 1, 2019 through June 30, 2019. Under regulations issued on April 27, 2020, they can also choose to use average total monthly payments for payroll during any consecutive 12-week period between May 1, 2019 and September 15, 2019.

Businesses that have been in operation for less than 12 months can use either their average monthly employees for January 1, 2020 through February 29, 2020 or the average number of employees for each of the pay periods the business has been operational."

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

No, I think it goes back to your pre COVID numbers, there are some alternatives for seasonal businesses.


Alternative Counting Methods. Under the FAQs, the number of employees may be measured using any of the following methods: (1) average number of employees for the last 12 months; (2) average number of employees for 2019; or (3) average number of employees per pay period in the 12 completed calendar months before the loan application.

"Seasonal businesses may use the average number of employees from February 15, 2019 or March 1, 2019 through June 30, 2019. Under regulations issued on April 27, 2020, they can also choose to use average total monthly payments for payroll during any consecutive 12-week period between May 1, 2019 and September 15, 2019.

Businesses that have been in operation for less than 12 months can use either their average monthly employees for January 1, 2020 through February 29, 2020 or the average number of employees for each of the pay periods the business has been operational."

OK, thank you.

[hubbahubba]

Thinking that maybe it is time to bring this thread up again and see how the forgiveness side of this thing has gone for you all? Anybody been through the whole process yet?

[RickFLM4]

I only got the EIDL and am sitting on the funds unless I really need them (otherwise will repay early). But also interested in how forgiveness is going.

[MisterF80M3]

I got the PPP loan back in May. I haven't touched it still. Is it too late to use it and ask for forgiveness?

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

I got the PPP loan back in May. I haven't touched it still. Is it too late to use it and ask for forgiveness?

Sounds like a great question for a creative accountant...

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

I got the PPP loan back in May. I haven't touched it still. Is it too late to use it and ask for forgiveness?

Cash is fungible so if you spent money in a way that meets forgiveness requirements, why should it matter which bank account was used to fund the spending? If you have been shut down and didn’t spend anything then that’s a different story.

[DocL]

I'll be going through the forgiveness process soon. I've been told by my personal banker, and by reading some of the guidelines from the ADA, I'll probably not have to repay the money. I also got a SBA low interest loan that I'll probably be dead before I pay it off.

[scostu]

I fall into this category......

https://recovery.chase.com/cares1/sba-loan-forgiveness

So I’m waiting.

Message from Jennifer Roberts, CEO of Chase Business Banking

I wish you, your families and your employees peace and good health in this holiday season. And I hope that your PPP loan has helped you and your business during this challenging year.

We’re working to get the simpler Form 3508S into our Forgiveness request process because it may help many of you with loans of $50,000 or less, though it’s still some weeks away.

As a reminder, Form 3508S requires fewer calculations, and borrowers who qualify to use this form are exempt from reductions in loan Forgiveness amounts based on reductions in FTE employees or salary/hourly wages.

By mid-December, all of you will receive an email invitation to request Forgiveness. Once you get it, you can use Form 3508EZ or 3508 if you don’t want to wait for 3508S. Regardless of which form you choose, please follow the four steps below to prepare.

[4Hockey4]

I've run a few business's in Virginia through the process. EZ app is cake, if you lost an employee or 2, gets more fun.

Hats off to Paychex for their FTE and Salary reduction calc help.

Interesting, folks didn't understand the cut off, not even the SBA. You need probably 25% reduction in employees before you'd need to pay any back.

I'd also add, based on the corruption, get your forgiveness app in ASAP. We could see tighter apps coming IMO.

[MisterF80M3]

I laid off 30% of my workforce since covid started. I wondering if I would qualify for forgiveness.

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

I laid off 30% of my workforce since covid started. I wondering if I would qualify for forgiveness.

Short answer is yes, at least some. Call your CPA and talk it out.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

I laid off 30% of my workforce since covid started. I wondering if I would qualify for forgiveness.

You just need to use a certain % towards payroll. It doesn't matter how spread it is across your payroll. That's the big gaping loophole. *You could fire everyone but yourself and pay yourself the entire amount. (edit: this might not be true)

I just got my forgiveness application approved. Took 15 minutes to upload the docs and fill the application. Got a reply in days. It's never been easier to take free money and that's exactly how it was designed to operate.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

I've run a few business's in Virginia through the process. EZ app is cake, if you lost an employee or 2, gets more fun.

Hats off to Paychex for their FTE and Salary reduction calc help.

Interesting, folks didn't understand the cut off, not even the SBA. You need probably 25% reduction in employees before you'd need to pay any back.

I'd also add, based on the corruption, get your forgiveness app in ASAP. We could see tighter apps coming IMO.

Paychex was on the ball for this entire process. It's a buffet.

[dreamingat30fps]

I got an email from chase saying I could apply for forgiveness however if I wanted to use form 3508S I would have to wait until later. Right now can only do form 3508EZ or 3508.

Not sure if I should wait or not. I'm a corporation and I'm the only only employee so it was based on my salary alone (which isn't much). I also think I got the EIDL. I say think because they just deposited $1k in my account. No email, no contact, no nothing. They later contacted me about taking out an actual loan which I declined.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I got an email from chase saying I could apply for forgiveness however if I wanted to use form 3508S I would have to wait until later. Right now can only do form 3508EZ or 3508.

Not sure if I should wait or not. I'm a corporation and I'm the only only employee so it was based on my salary alone (which isn't much). I also think I got the EIDL. I say think because they just deposited $1k in my account. No email, no contact, no nothing. They later contacted me about taking out an actual loan which I declined.

That $1,000 was EIDL but you don't need to do anything about it. It was a grant. I was contacted about the EIDL loan first and then a while later, the $1,000 grant was deposited.

[4Hockey4]

30% will be border line, but could depend on some other expenses.

Also no you cant fire everyone and pay yourself everything, anything over $100K (yearly) is capped off. Just under $50K for 24 week period.

You also have to do the FTE/Salary reduction app if you have less FTE then loan date.

I've just completed my 6th one for clients, 75% (less employees for full forgiveness) seems to be line so far (but can vary between companies based on a few other expenses.)

and yes the 2 paychex clients were cake, BUT one salary reduction schedule did not eqaul the application calc, they are looking into.

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by jmg

You just need to use a certain % towards payroll. It doesn't matter how spread it is across your payroll. That's the big gaping loophole. You could fire everyone but yourself and pay yourself the entire amount.

I just got my forgiveness application approved. Took 15 minutes to upload the docs and fill the application. Got a reply in days. It's never been easier to take free money and that's exactly how it was designed to operate.

2 weeks today is when I submitted. Still shows documentation review on my banks forgiveness portal. I see no reason that we should not be forgiven, and not sure why it is taking them so long to agree with me, but hope it is as easy as yours.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

2 weeks today is when I submitted. Still shows documentation review on my banks forgiveness portal. I see no reason that we should not be forgiven, and not sure why it is taking them so long to agree with me, but hope it is as easy as yours.

My lender notified me the same day that they approved my application. Three business days later my loan was paid in full. I got the notice from my lender that the SBA approved forgiveness 2 business days after that. Not sure why the notice was 2 days later, probably pending transfer of funds from SBA to my lender before they sent the notice. This was end of Nov into first week of Dec. SBA are probably just getting slammed now because everyone wants to lock in Q4. My accountant assumed forgiveness even if I didn't hear back. Crossing fingers!

[jmg]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

30% will be border line, but could depend on some other expenses.

Also no you cant fire everyone and pay yourself everything, anything over $100K (yearly) is capped off. Just under $50K for 24 week period.

You also have to do the FTE/Salary reduction app if you have less FTE then loan date.

I've just completed my 6th one for clients, 75% (less employees for full forgiveness) seems to be line so far (but can vary between companies based on a few other expenses.)

and yes the 2 paychex clients were cake, BUT one salary reduction schedule did not eqaul the application calc, they are looking into.

Ahh forgot about the $100k cap. What if you laid off before the loan date? Is there still a reduction?

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by jmg

My lender notified me the same day that they approved my application. Three business days later my loan was paid in full. I got the notice from my lender that the SBA approved forgiveness 2 business days after that. Not sure why the notice was 2 days later, probably pending transfer of funds from SBA to my lender before they sent the notice. This was end of Nov into first week of Dec. SBA are probably just getting slammed now because everyone wants to lock in Q4. My accountant assumed forgiveness even if I didn't hear back. Crossing fingers!

My accountant wants to assume the same. Big difference in my liability for 2020 if forgiveness is pushed to 2021. My Q4 estimated aren't due till Jan 15, I am waiting it out!

[jmg]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

My accountant wants to assume the same. Big difference in my liability for 2020 if forgiveness is pushed to 2021. My Q4 estimated aren't due till Jan 15, I am waiting it out!

With the QBI deduction possibly going away with Biden's tax plan, I'm trying not to push anything into 2021.