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      02-17-2019, 06:21 PM   #1
areyouamac
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Considering 2010 M6, Trading in 2013 M3

Hello.

Looks like no forum ever existed for the E63... but words of wisdom are still accepted here.

So, this came on the market: https://www.carmax.com/car/16674930 and I would love to pull the trigger.

2010 M6
VIN: WBSEH9C56ACY25169
Color: Black / Grey
Price: $32000
Miles: 56K

Warranty: 60 Months | 125K Miles | $7100 | $300 Deductible
If Engine Blows, they will replace w/ $300 Deductible (no max/cap of expense or FMV)
If it breaks: it's covered under warranty
Wear and tear: it's not covered (gaskets, brakes, etc)



I just purchased a 2013 (late build date June 25, 2013 | VIN: WBSKG9C58DJ973121) M3 and am thinking of making the switch.

---

The 2010 M6 is clean, but w/ 3 owners. I'm the second owner of the M3.

---

The M6 w. warranty and after taxes will be about $40k.
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      02-19-2019, 04:09 PM   #2
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If they haven't already rebuilt the motor, I'd clarify if the rod bearings are considered 'wear and tear'.
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      02-19-2019, 06:51 PM   #3
BM dnobagaV
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What Cincinnatus said.

+throttle actuators
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      02-19-2019, 08:57 PM   #4
Cincinnatus
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For that kind of money, you might consider the stretch to an F13 M6, roughly in the upper 30's right now, but with a little negotiating, you can probably snag something like this for $35 with a little negotiating.

https://cargur.us/rqtRq
https://cargur.us/prmnR

With such a car as above, you could pick up an AutoPom warranty for half what you were quoted, which would offset the higher vehicle price and wind you up with a newer body style that most are is one of BMW's most beautiful ever, gobs of power, a far better transmission, and far better tech for your $40 budget. Just don't expect it to be as good at Autocross as the M3.

Just a suggestion. If you want me to look over the car in Lodi NJ, I'll be down in the area late next week.

Last edited by Cincinnatus; 02-19-2019 at 09:10 PM..
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      02-20-2019, 12:05 AM   #5
areyouamac
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Cincinnatus BM dnobagaV Thanks for the input.

Drove the car. The SMG is similar to the DCT, but there's a legit 1-2 second delay when shifting via paddle. Even in auto mode, you feel that jerk when it automatically switches gears. It's not bad and does feel more of a manual due to the delay in gear shifting.

The DCT on my M3 is smooth, but I did not find the delay in the SMG on the M6 of annoyance or of any lesser while driving.

The main put off for me was many multiple owners, and I can tell the car was sitting outside. M emblems were a bit faded, and the interior pillar trims were coming off (tell-tale sign for me to know the car has definitely sat outside, and not garaged)

For some reason, I preferred the E63 M6 interior over the E9X M3. Fewer buttons are always nicer.

Would I have gotten it? Definitely, if it was 1-owner, and lesser than 50K miles. It's worrisome especially when you see +3 owners for an E6X M5/M6.

I do have another 10 months to look for an E63 Black/Black... White/Black (or red) combo.

That Interlagos Blue and Red combo.. can never ever find that one!

I would consider the new M6 but may wait a bit for a later production model.
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      02-20-2019, 06:59 AM   #6
Taheemr
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You really cannot compare the DCT to the SMG box, night and day difference. I have had 2 e63s both had awful gearbox, you will also have to plan for vanos and ongoing electrical issues not to mention getting share in your own oil company, the V10 drinks like fish.

If you can stretch to the new model would be my advice.
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      02-20-2019, 11:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus View Post
If they haven't already rebuilt the motor, I'd clarify if the rod bearings are considered 'wear and tear'.
IMO, just consider the RB rebuild as a maintenance expense. Shops are doing this for $3k or less now.
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      02-20-2019, 11:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by areyouamac View Post
Cincinnatus BM dnobagaV Thanks for the input.

Drove the car. The SMG is similar to the DCT, but there's a legit 1-2 second delay when shifting via paddle. Even in auto mode, you feel that jerk when it automatically switches gears. It's not bad and does feel more of a manual due to the delay in gear shifting.

The DCT on my M3 is smooth, but I did not find the delay in the SMG on the M6 of annoyance or of any lesser while driving.

The main put off for me was many multiple owners, and I can tell the car was sitting outside. M emblems were a bit faded, and the interior pillar trims were coming off (tell-tale sign for me to know the car has definitely sat outside, and not garaged)

For some reason, I preferred the E63 M6 interior over the E9X M3. Fewer buttons are always nicer.

Would I have gotten it? Definitely, if it was 1-owner, and lesser than 50K miles. It's worrisome especially when you see +3 owners for an E6X M5/M6.

I do have another 10 months to look for an E63 Black/Black... White/Black (or red) combo.

That Interlagos Blue and Red combo.. can never ever find that one!

I would consider the new M6 but may wait a bit for a later production model.
IMO, if you can live with the SMG, you should have bought this car. The price and mileage is right on. 2010 is the optimal model year, the car looks clean. The ownership history is nothing for a M car. You know how it typically goes for a $100k M car:

1. First owner leases for the first 3 years
2. Second owner takes on 2 more years as a CPO
3. Third owner owns it for the longest time after, maybe 3 more years.
4. Add another owner who bought it to look at it and then change his mind after.

I came from the same car you currently have. I had a 08 E90 M3 6MT. I think after I'm done with my 14 M6, I'm going back to a E63 M6 or E60 M5. Owning a E6X M car should be similar to a E9X M3. Same motor (2 less cylinders), same parts, pretty much same everything.

I would target a 2009+ car with a 6MT, and be indifferent about color.
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      02-20-2019, 01:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
IMO, just consider the RB rebuild as a maintenance expense. Shops are doing this for $3k or less now.
Wow! I'm not a mechanic, but that seems a lot of work for only a couple of grand. So what difference is there between the $10g rebuild and a $3g rebuild? I can't imagine they'd do the same thing with that big a price difference.
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      02-20-2019, 01:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus View Post
Wow! I'm not a mechanic, but that seems a lot of work for only a couple of grand. So what difference is there between the $10g rebuild and a $3g rebuild? I can't imagine they'd do the same thing with that big a price difference.
The work on the S65 and S85 motors are much more streamlined and simple now.

In the early days shops pulled the entire motor to swap out the bearings.
Today, the shops that do this swap in volume simply unbolt parts of the motor mount, and then go under the car and drop the bottom. You can then clearly see and access the RBs.

It's much less labor intensive than originally thought. If you were to buy a S65 or S85, just perform the work as part of maintenance. It costs about as much as a set of tires or brakes.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1492601
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=881588
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...1297575&page=2
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      02-20-2019, 01:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
The work on the S65 and S85 motors are much more streamlined and simple now.

In the early days shops pulled the entire motor to swap out the bearings.
Today, the shops that do this swap in volume simply need to unbolt parts of the mount, and then go under the car and drop the bottom.

It's much less labor intensive.
So it's a matter of the development of techniques as knowledge of the remedy spread. Interesting. I'll pass that information along.
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      02-20-2019, 01:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus View Post
So it's a matter of the development of techniques as knowledge of the remedy spread. Interesting. I'll pass that information along.
Exactly. When the issue started popping up in 2010, shops were pulling the entire engine and trouble shooting and documenting the issues for lawsuits and warranty claims. They would take half a week to do all that. They were charging in the $4k-$5k range for all that labor. And at that time, there was an unknown remedy, and people were simply putting in new OEM bearings back in.

Today, as it's a known issue, there's no more trouble shooting to be done. You choose what type of service you want (BE, ARP, WPC, and even fully customized wider clearance bearings) It's basically like an out-patient surgery, some have same-day service.

Edit: check my links above. I edited my last post. It makes owning the s65 and S85 much more economical. You'll still spend more on tires and brakes than any other maintenance item. When I owned my M3, I easily dumped $6k in brake and tire replacements
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      02-20-2019, 02:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
Today, as it's a known issue, there's no more trouble shooting to be done. You choose what type of service you want (BE, ARP, WPC, and even fully customized wider clearance bearings) It's basically like an out-patient surgery, some have same-day service.
Cool beans. But correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought it was bad heat treating of the crankshaft that caused the problems. If so, would that not be a good item to replace as well?
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      02-20-2019, 04:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus View Post
Cool beans. But correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought it was bad heat treating of the crankshaft that caused the problems. If so, would that not be a good item to replace as well?
That's news to me. My understanding of the root issue is that BMW themselves designed clearances with too tight of a tolerance, tighter than industry standard.

On top of it, they then designed the motor to be high revving high performance motor, which requires a much thicker oil. So the OEM 10-60 oil compounded the issues, especially with owners who drive the car hard without warming up the oil. There's nothing in the manual that says that you should warm up the oil to about 200 degrees before revving it anywhere close to 4k rpms. Further oil analysis on clean oil showed there wasn't enough friction modifiers/additives in the oil to be considered "good" oil. They then switched the formula to Castrol Professional and then currently the TwinPower Turbo Pennzoil is even better in terms of additives.

But root cause is still tight tolerances.
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