Blown Motor Already

[ppasiakos]

Warranty companies routinely pay for failures. It's what they do. Heavily modified lifted trucks. Cars etc. They definitely should pay as I paid a very high price for the coverage. I'm not buying the argument that a basic tune and down pipes would cause this car to blow a motor so quickly. Especially being driven by my wife.

[ppasiakos]

I bought the car from an auction. Which looking back now makes me wonder why a dealership did not want to retail the car themselves. Especially a clean 22,000 mile car. In the business those are A cars. Way under normal use. So the fact that it went from a dealer to Manheim auction is now looking suspect. Someone did not want to deal with a comeback after a sale. Someone knew something and unfortunately I bought based on emotion and not rational thought.

[ppasiakos]

Originally Posted by thebmw

This changes everything. Your initial post was not very transparent. You clearly know a lot about cars as you are a new car dealership manager. You did your homework on this car and you knew exactly about what mods you wanted. You know exactly how warranties work. I'm sure you know the warranty company should not pay for this but you are hoping they will pay for something that is not their responsibility. Let us know how that goes.

So because I am in the business I should pay out of pocket? Lol warranty companies are never to blame. They fix cars that break. They don't break them. They take a chance guaranteeing them. Just like accidents aren't the fault of insurance companies. I just find that logic a little accusatory as if I am the only person to blame. The motor blew up. That's it. Car doesn't have 1000 plus horsepower nitrous methanol. Everyone on here knows that this is an ongoing problem with these motors. And the V10 before. Just shit luck. And being that I paid a very high cost for the best warranty. I should let them keep all the money and never file a claim. Because it's not their fault.

[LJohnson32]

Originally Posted by ppasiakos

I bought the car from an auction. Which looking back now makes me wonder why a dealership did not want to retail the car themselves. Especially a clean 22,000 mile car. In the business those are A cars. Way under normal use. So the fact that it went from a dealer to Manheim auction is now looking suspect. Someone did not want to deal with a comeback after a sale. Someone knew something and unfortunately I bought based on emotion and not rational thought.

Yeah unfortunately these are all red flags for sure. I spent a little over 3 years with Porsche at the dealer level (not that long I know, but long enough to understand the ways of the world) and we typically would avoid the well-specced, low mile, highline cars that 'look good on paper' at Manheim for this very reason. Because to your point, any dealer worth their salt (even if it isn't their brand) wants to retail that inventory before wholesaling them with the rare exception of being able to secure a quick $3-5k profit through the chute on some cars if they were bought right. More often than not there would be serious underlying issues that led to them ending up at auction versus on the lot. I recall our pre-owned manager getting burnt on a handful of Cayenne GTS' and Cayenne Turbo's this way

Nonetheless there's no getting around the fact that this situation really sucks however you cut it. I hope you didn't receive my original response regarding the warranty stuff as 'blaming you' for what's occurred because that was not my intent. I just specifically recall during my time in the F&I space with Porsche, all of the warranties we offered (Porsche or 3rd party through Zurich) had fine print stipulating the conditions of the warranty, and they all explicitly stated that modified components would not be covered. For your sake, I hope that either your specific warranty did not make these exclusionary statements or if they did, that they aren't able to identify any of the work you had performed under your ownership. Truly hoping for the best case scenario for you

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by ppasiakos

I bought the car from an auction. Which looking back now makes me wonder why a dealership did not want to retail the car themselves. Especially a clean 22,000 mile car. In the business those are A cars. Way under normal use. So the fact that it went from a dealer to Manheim auction is now looking suspect. Someone did not want to deal with a comeback after a sale. Someone knew something and unfortunately I bought based on emotion and not rational thought.

I thought you bought it from a Lamborghini dealership? Was that the dealership that auctioned it? As you know, many M6's are listed on Manheim and OVE. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. But it also doesn't mean that there ISN'T something wrong with them. Maybe the car was bad, maybe the tune?

https://www.6post.com/forums/showpos...82&postcount=4

[Marcus Frost]

This thread is a joke and a perfect example of why I never buy these kinds of posts.

The S63 is a phenomenal engine that, when properly cared for, is extremely reliable and robust. Perhaps they are not completely flawless, but there is no such thing as a perfect high HP engine.

I am 100% certain this issue is a result of negligence on behalf of the previous owner, or (now that the the real facts have come to the surface) the current owner. I smelled it a mile away.

[ppasiakos]

Originally Posted by Marcus Frost

This thread is a joke and a perfect example of why I never buy these kinds of posts.

The S63 is a phenomenal engine that, when properly cared for, is extremely reliable and robust. Perhaps they are not completely flawless, but there is no such thing as a perfect high HP engine.

I am 100% certain this issue is a result of negligence on behalf of the previous owner, or (now that the the real facts have come to the surface) the current owner. I smelled it a mile away.

I don't care what you believe or don't believe. Iyou act like I lied about my car purchase. What are these facts that came to light? A tune and down pipes. Wow. Thought these cars could handle that. I bought a car for my Wife. It blew up. I posted it here to see if anyone had similar issues. And guess what. Google will show you just how many people have been in my position. So don't get upset or get your feelings hurt if my experience with this engine is different than yours. Your defense of a piece of mechanical technology to attack me and my story as crap is what is really a joke. Who knew a simple post about a highly shit situation anyway you slice it. Would turn into an episode of CSI. I just hope that I can truly enjoy the car after all is said and done. She loves the car. We live riding together on days off. But there is a big sour taste now. And I hope it doesn't stay.

[Salottox5m]

Where was the car prior to Mannheim? I'd track down dealer that had it prior... if they took it on a trade they certainly would have done a ppi - right?

Warranty - good luck and keep us posted - I feel warranty / homeowners / any type of insurance will do everything they can NOT to pay you - and id bet there's language in the warranty about not modding the car as it could void the warranty ...

Hopefully they cover it - but if re read the warranty bc id imagine they're going to give you some push back about mods before they hand you $32k plus

I do wish you luck with all of this !!

Ps - women drivers !! Lol kidding

[MetZF82]

Originally Posted by Marcus Frost

This thread is a joke and a perfect example of why I never buy these kinds of posts.

The S63 is a phenomenal engine that, when properly cared for, is extremely reliable and robust. Perhaps they are not completely flawless, but there is no such thing as a perfect high HP engine.

I am 100% certain this issue is a result of negligence on behalf of the previous owner, or (now that the the real facts have come to the surface) the current owner. I smelled it a mile away.

I don't like to hear these stories as much as you or anyone else. I personally know of a few s63 motors that had rod bearing failures. Some kept mint and some recently purchased.

We know that there's also plenty of guys with tuned high mileage reliable cars. It's not a joke. It's a real thing. I hate to hear it myself. I'm 12.5k mikes (40k miles total) tuned and have done dozens of 160+ pulls. Thank god no issues. Oil changes every 2.5k.

When these cars were introduced Bmw suggested very high oil change intervals. I can Imagine people leasing these cars and doing oil changes every 10-15k miles like Bmw told them to do isn't healthy for the next owners.

It's now been changed to every 5k from BMW. I would hold Bmw accountable for any model years that were instructed to do very high mile oil change intervals.

[Marcus Frost]

Originally Posted by ppasiakos

I don't care what you believe or don't believe. Iyou act like I lied about my car purchase. What are these facts that came to light? A tune and down pipes. Wow. Thought these cars could handle that. I bought a car for my Wife. It blew up. I posted it here to see if anyone had similar issues. And guess what. Google will show you just how many people have been in my position. So don't get upset or get your feelings hurt if my experience with this engine is different than yours. Your defense of a piece of mechanical technology to attack me and my story as crap is what is really a joke. Who knew a simple post about a highly shit situation anyway you slice it. Would turn into an episode of CSI. I just hope that I can truly enjoy the car after all is said and done. She loves the car. We live riding together on days off. But there is a big sour taste now. And I hope it doesn't stay.

A tune and downpipes is a HUGE deal. A bad install, bad flash, bad tune, bad whatever, and guess what? Pop. Modifying a car is not a joke and should be taken seriously. You don't want to accept that your actions could have caused the failure, and just want to take it out on BMW. The reality is that what happened to you is likely not a "BMW" issue or a fault of BMW. You bought a car from Manheim that other dealers couldn't sell and threw a tune/downpipes on it and it popped. It sucks, but this wasn't a fault of BMW. The facts presented point to you, the previous owner, or both.

Sorry.

[Marcus Frost]

Originally Posted by MetZF82

I don't like to hear these stories as much as you or anyone else. I personally know of a few s63 motors that had rod bearing failures. Some kept mint and some recently purchased.

We know that there's also plenty of guys with tuned high mileage reliable cars. It's not a joke. It's a real thing. I hate to hear it myself. I'm 12.5k mikes (40k miles total) tuned and have done dozens of 160+ pulls. Thank god no issues. Oil changes every 2.5k.

When these cars were introduced Bmw suggested very high oil change intervals. I can Imagine people leasing these cars and doing oil changes every 10-15k miles like Bmw told them to do isn't healthy for the next owners.

It's now been changed to every 5k from BMW. I would hold Bmw accountable for any model years that were instructed to do very high mile oil change intervals.

Yes you need to change your oil every 5k with a good oil. Yes, you need to allow your oil to reach operating temp before putting it under load. These are not unique to BMW.

How many S63 powered cars, including M6/M6GC/X5M/X6M/M5/etc are for sale right now? Thousands - and guess what, I would be that less than 1% have had engine failures of the ones for sale. We have a bias to thinking that some anecdotal stories somehow represent more than they actually do.

Take care of your car, invest in good quality modifications and someone who knows how to work on your car, and it will take great care of you.

[patchesj]

Originally Posted by Marcus Frost

A tune and downpipes is a HUGE deal. A bad install, bad flash, bad tune, bad whatever, and guess what? Pop. Modifying a car is not a joke and should be taken seriously. You don't want to accept that your actions could have caused the failure, and just want to take it out on BMW. The reality is that what happened to you is likely not a "BMW" issue or a fault of BMW. You bought a car from Manheim that other dealers couldn't sell and threw a tune/downpipes on it and it popped. It sucks, but this wasn't a fault of BMW. The facts presented point to you, the previous owner, or both.

Sorry.

So my take aways here...
1. There is not a fundamental design flaw with the S63TU that causes rod bearing failures.
2. The S63TU is a very high output motor that requires special oil care (<5k oil changes, warm up/cool downs, etc.)
3. There are well documented rod failures on the S63TU, that IMO are mechanical failure do to machining tolerance issues on a small number of cranks. (I think the risk of failure is going down as most of these have already removed themselves from the population).
4. ANY modification that results in exceeding the engineering specifications of a system as complex as the S63TU can result in immediate failure.
5. It takes a single misconfigured variable in the 1000s of available options in DME tuning to grenade a motor (even by just starting it).

I am empathetic with the OPs situation, but don't blame the motor here.

[BMWRog]

Originally Posted by MetZF82

...When these cars were introduced Bmw suggested very high oil change intervals. I can Imagine people leasing these cars and doing oil changes every 10-15k miles like Bmw told them to do isn't healthy for the next owners.

It's now been changed to every 5k from BMW...

When did this happen? Does it apply worldwide, or just in the US? Personally, I've always felt 15K miles was way too long to go before an oil and filter change despite the increased technology associated with synthetic oils. I last changed mine at 6k miles, but as far as I'm aware BMW in the UK still claim 15k is the norm and perfectly acceptable.

[jjasonSU]

Left out the *little* fact that there was a tune installed.
Did they warranty company agree to cover modified engines?
As you should know that normally voids any warranty work for that engine but maybe your field or relationships can get you around it but basically it's shifting the risk to them. Good luck

[Marcus Frost]

Originally Posted by patchesj

So my take aways here...
1. There is not a fundamental design flaw with the S63TU that causes rod bearing failures.
2. The S63TU is a very high output motor that requires special oil care (<5k oil changes, warm up/cool downs, etc.)
3. There are well documented rod failures on the S63TU, that IMO are mechanical failure do to machining tolerance issues on a small number of cranks. (I think the risk of failure is going down as most of these have already removed themselves from the population).
4. ANY modification that results in exceeding the engineering specifications of a system as complex as the S63TU can result in immediate failure.
5. It takes a single misconfigured variable in the 1000s of available options in DME tuning to grenade a motor (even by just starting it).

I am empathetic with the OPs situation, but don't blame the motor here.

I agree for the most part and we can get caught up in semantics but at the end of the day any motor making 500hp+ needs to be maintained at a high level and looked after diligently. This includes regular oil changes, only subjecting the engine to heavy load when at correct operating temperature, modifying with high quality, thoroughly tested parts installed by good shops/techs that know what they are doing, etc.

To your point #5 - it doesn't take a lot - for ANY engine - to pop when you start modifying. I remember the first time I saw a motor pop in person we were on the highway when I had my '97 MKIV Turbo Supra. One of the guys with us had pulled his hose off his wastegate (was a '94 Supra Turbo) to run more boost (stock turbos, stock everything) - well it just so happened to get really cold that night, and a long highway pull resulted in the car running lean up top and the motor popped. Yes, the infamous 2JZ "bulletproof" motor popped running lean on stock turbos by pulling a wastegate hose on a very cold night.

All engines, performance or not, are subject to tolerance issues and failures as a consequence. You can ask any tech at any German dealership - there are failures at all levels. The optics for the S63 are much higher since owners are enthusiasts and much more likely to post their grievances to forums with other owners who then further magnify the issue. I believe the S63 failure rate to be relatively low, and for the most part it is a very well designed, robust engine when maintained properly.

[TinCanSailor]

Sorry to hear this ended up happening. I am curious if you ended up coating and/or wrapping the downpipes. The heat coming off them can have a terribly detrimental effect on the rear cylinders and oil due to the heat exposure.

If you get any push back on the warranty coverage hit up RK Autowerks for the engine repair.

[ppasiakos]

So here is an update. Warranty will pay up to $46,000 for brand new BMW motor, no remanufactured stuff. Also both turbos will be replaced. Parts are on order should arrive Tuesday/Wednesday. Downpipes were not coated or wrapped.

[thebmw]

You are a lucky person. What warranty company? Sounds like they are very customer friendly.

[ppasiakos]

Fidelity

[TinCanSailor]

Originally Posted by ppasiakos

So here is an update. Warranty will pay up to $46,000 for brand new BMW motor, no remanufactured stuff. Also both turbos will be replaced. Parts are on order should arrive Tuesday/Wednesday. Downpipes were not coated or wrapped.

That is great news sir! If you go with the downpipes again wrap the rascal's up. That said knowing that it is a factory motor it might be worth the expenditure to have that bottom end removed, replace the rod bearings and maybe have the crank inspected.

[ppasiakos]

Originally Posted by TinCanSailor

That is great news sir! If you go with the downpipes again wrap the rascal's up. That said knowing that it is a factory motor it might be worth the expenditure to have that bottom end removed, replace the rod bearings and maybe have the crank inspected.

Not sure why I would pull and replace the rod bearings on a brand new motor, or inspect the crank? Again this is not a remanufactured motor, it is a complete new assembly from BMW. I would think I shouldn't have to do that. Also I am probably going to have my dp's ceramic coated before reinstalling.

[TinCanSailor]

Originally Posted by ppasiakos

Not sure why I would pull and replace the rod bearings on a brand new motor, or inspect the crank? Again this is not a remanufactured motor, it is a complete new assembly from BMW. I would think I shouldn't have to do that. Also I am probably going to have my dp's ceramic coated before reinstalling.

My car had the bearings replaced by bmw as a preventative measure and the engine still ate itself. The rod bearings have proven themselves to be a bit of an issue but knowing the warranty company didn't push back on the replacement then I'd prolly let it ride as well. Who knows what the prev owner did or if it was the mods maybe if you stick to a very short oil change interval and have the DP's coated you may be able to avoid a repeat. Just know that a new factory engine isn't an assured path to never seeing the issue arise again.