BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   6Post.com | BMW 6-Series Forum > BMW 6 Series Forum > BMW M6 Forum (F12 / F13)

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-16-2020, 06:06 PM   #23
thebmw
Post Advisor
thebmw's Avatar
450
Rep
1,125
Posts

Drives: Many BMWs and SRTs
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnVe46 View Post
If you could read, I said at the minimum, would reduce power. And if you don't NEED 575hp, why buy it to begin with?! It's ludicrous.

Also, again if you read, I said high horsepower turbo engines. A 240hp four cylinder isn't high horsepower.

While octane doesn't dictate quality of gas, point is the engine isn't designed to run on 87. If you want to run 87 to save a measly $500/year, save THOUSANDS and buy something less prestigious, less flamboyant, less maintenance, less everything. Your logic is terrible.
Thanks for the insults. That's usually what people resort to when they can't make a scientific argument. Your frustration should be in your limited scientific understanding or education, not directed to a random person on the internet!

You specifically said that lower octane will destroy the engine. There's zero evidence of that. You are clearly not an engineer or scientist. There isn't some engineering team that magically designs a car that specifically runs on 93 octane gas. That's simply not how engineering and science works.

Octane is referring to combustibility. This is fairly basic HS chemistry. Higher combustibility will yield greater power and slightly greater miles per gallon. This is what I use in my Exotics. For my daily drivers, it's not needed as I rarely utilize even 50% of the power. This is why the vast majority of people fill with 87 octane and no engines are destroyed!

No more free education for you. Your behavior is unappealing to me.
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2020, 07:50 PM   #24
EnVe46
Major
EnVe46's Avatar
697
Rep
1,048
Posts

Drives: 14 M6 GC Comp
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnVe46 View Post
If you could read, I said at the minimum, would reduce power. And if you don't NEED 575hp, why buy it to begin with?! It's ludicrous.

Also, again if you read, I said high horsepower turbo engines. A 240hp four cylinder isn't high horsepower.

While octane doesn't dictate quality of gas, point is the engine isn't designed to run on 87. If you want to run 87 to save a measly $500/year, save THOUSANDS and buy something less prestigious, less flamboyant, less maintenance, less everything. Your logic is terrible.
Thanks for the insults. That's usually what people resort to when they can't make a scientific argument. Your frustration should be in your limited scientific understanding or education, not directed to a random person on the internet!

You specifically said that lower octane will destroy the engine. There's zero evidence of that. You are clearly not an engineer or scientist. There isn't some engineering team that magically designs a car that specifically runs on 93 octane gas. That's simply not how engineering and science works.

Octane is referring to combustibility. This is fairly basic HS chemistry. Higher combustibility will yield greater power and slightly greater miles per gallon. This is what I use in my Exotics. For my daily drivers, it's not needed as I rarely utilize even 50% of the power. This is why the vast majority of people fill with 87 octane and no engines are destroyed!

No more free education for you. Your behavior is unappealing to me.
Your condescending response triggered my "insults", so maybe you should take a less "I know everything approach" in your responses

And in regards to what you're saying, if octane didn't matter, manufacturers wouldn't say the recommended octane for the vehicle on the gas cap, owners manual and other literature for the car.

Nowhere in any of my responses did I say it would destroy the engine, actually said it WONT.

Furthermore, if you look at what I said in my original post, my whole point was why buy a high horsepower car when you don't "use it". Maybe YOU don't use it, but there are plenty who do. Posting that running 87 is perfectly fine is not providing good, quality information. It's a false narrative you provide because it's how YOU justify being cheap on saving pennies on gas. I promise you people will read what you say, go fill with 87 and complain about subpar performance. And yes, the computer will save any major damage to the engine but I'd be willing to bet running lower octane for extended periods of time while pushing it hard, may cause misfires, plug issues etc. You assumed I don't know the difference between octane levels, because I don't agree with running lower octane. You got triggered by my opinion on the matter and put words in my mouth.

If I offended you or anyone, that was not my intention. Providing the correct information on a forum of which lots of people rely on, including myself, is what's important. So, I apologize for throwing insults. One shouldn't make assumptions on another knowledge either. It's a good way to cause these types of posts. While I don't have engineering background, I've helped several on this very forum, fix and maintain their vehicles.
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 ZCP
Interlagos Blau
Appreciate 0
      03-16-2020, 10:33 PM   #25
thebmw
Post Advisor
thebmw's Avatar
450
Rep
1,125
Posts

Drives: Many BMWs and SRTs
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnVe46 View Post
Your condescending response triggered my "insults", so maybe you should take a less "I know everything approach" in your responses

And in regards to what you're saying, if octane didn't matter, manufacturers wouldn't say the recommended octane for the vehicle on the gas cap, owners manual and other literature for the car.

Nowhere in any of my responses did I say it would destroy the engine, actually said it WONT.

Furthermore, if you look at what I said in my original post, my whole point was why buy a high horsepower car when you don't "use it". Maybe YOU don't use it, but there are plenty who do. Posting that running 87 is perfectly fine is not providing good, quality information. It's a false narrative you provide because it's how YOU justify being cheap on saving pennies on gas. I promise you people will read what you say, go fill with 87 and complain about subpar performance. And yes, the computer will save any major damage to the engine but I'd be willing to bet running lower octane for extended periods of time while pushing it hard, may cause misfires, plug issues etc. You assumed I don't know the difference between octane levels, because I don't agree with running lower octane. You got triggered by my opinion on the matter and put words in my mouth.

If I offended you or anyone, that was not my intention. Providing the correct information on a forum of which lots of people rely on, including myself, is what's important. So, I apologize for throwing insults. One shouldn't make assumptions on another knowledge either. It's a good way to cause these types of posts. While I don't have engineering background, I've helped several on this very forum, fix and maintain their vehicles.
I'm just trying to help as well. I've had too many science discussions about COVID-19 with people who have no science background over the last few weeks, so my advocacy for facts has been on full throttle!

Manufacturers recommend higher octane so they can achieve the higher performance #'s, simple as that. Interestingly, many of the lower HP, smaller engines actually have an even higher compression ratio than the S63. So you'd think the cheapo cars would have issues when people use 87 octane. The reality is, they do just the same from a longevity standpoint (totally agree that power and mpg are lower).

My main point is simple, octane does not equal quality. Nothing wrong with 87 or 89 or 91 or 93 octane when it comes to engine longevity (I've been filling 87 for years in over 50 cars...no issues). The only reason I use 93 in my exotics is because I want full power all the time when I drive them! What is important is the quality of the gas station and their gas. Give me a 87 octane from Top Tier Gas all day over 93 octane from some random gas station.
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2020, 04:40 PM   #26
Flying Ace
Lieutenant General
Flying Ace's Avatar
United_States
3789
Rep
10,436
Posts

Drives: M6GC ZCP, X5d
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SF, CA

iTrader: (5)

So was the marriage ok
__________________
12 AW/Cinnamon X5 Diesel Urban Assault Vehicle
14 AW M6GC ZCP, MPE, e-wheel, vorsteiner spoiler
08 SSII E90 M3 (Sold!)
Appreciate 1
jjasonSU102.00

      03-17-2020, 04:47 PM   #27
Bmwtechgeek
Private First Class
74
Rep
198
Posts

Drives: Bmw m5
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Usa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
So was the marriage ok
We just started counselling. I've taken away her key and we're sleeping in different bedrooms for the time being. Shes now taking the city bus... 😆

Don't mess with my M6!
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2020, 04:49 PM   #28
Bmwtechgeek
Private First Class
74
Rep
198
Posts

Drives: Bmw m5
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Usa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnVe46 View Post
Your condescending response triggered my "insults", so maybe you should take a less "I know everything approach" in your responses

And in regards to what you're saying, if octane didn't matter, manufacturers wouldn't say the recommended octane for the vehicle on the gas cap, owners manual and other literature for the car.

Nowhere in any of my responses did I say it would destroy the engine, actually said it WONT.

Furthermore, if you look at what I said in my original post, my whole point was why buy a high horsepower car when you don't "use it". Maybe YOU don't use it, but there are plenty who do. Posting that running 87 is perfectly fine is not providing good, quality information. It's a false narrative you provide because it's how YOU justify being cheap on saving pennies on gas. I promise you people will read what you say, go fill with 87 and complain about subpar performance. And yes, the computer will save any major damage to the engine but I'd be willing to bet running lower octane for extended periods of time while pushing it hard, may cause misfires, plug issues etc. You assumed I don't know the difference between octane levels, because I don't agree with running lower octane. You got triggered by my opinion on the matter and put words in my mouth.

If I offended you or anyone, that was not my intention. Providing the correct information on a forum of which lots of people rely on, including myself, is what's important. So, I apologize for throwing insults. One shouldn't make assumptions on another knowledge either. It's a good way to cause these types of posts. While I don't have engineering background, I've helped several on this very forum, fix and maintain their vehicles.
I'm just trying to help as well. I've had too many science discussions about COVID-19 with people who have no science background over the last few weeks, so my advocacy for facts has been on full throttle!

Manufacturers recommend higher octane so they can achieve the higher performance #'s, simple as that. Interestingly, many of the lower HP, smaller engines actually have an even higher compression ratio than the S63. So you'd think the cheapo cars would have issues when people use 87 octane. The reality is, they do just the same from a longevity standpoint (totally agree that power and mpg are lower).

My main point is simple, octane does not equal quality. Nothing wrong with 87 or 89 or 91 or 93 octane when it comes to engine longevity (I've been filling 87 for years in over 50 cars...no issues). The only reason I use 93 in my exotics is because I want full power all the time when I drive them! What is important is the quality of the gas station and their gas. Give me a 87 octane from Top Tier Gas all day over 93 octane from some random gas station.
Your probably right. I've already burnt off most of the gas and the car seems fine. What a relief!
Appreciate 0
      03-19-2020, 01:40 AM   #29
premo
M3
premo's Avatar
United_States
48
Rep
243
Posts

Drives: E92 ///M3 Jerez Black
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

You could add 2 gallons or so of e85. That will boost your octane. Here is a link to help you calculate:

https://www.brewcity**********/about...ol-calculator/

Most stock tunes will allow for 87 as the lowest. This is incase it is accidentally added to the car. Adding e85 (just a couple gallons) will significantly boost octane (e85=100 to 105 octane). Just remember it has a lower ignition temp (good for the motor), but it will burn about 30% faster. For this reason, dont add too much, unless you tune for it.

Im in a super charged e92 m3 and mix every now and then. Generally its advised not to mix more than e20. The f12 m6 has a better fuel system, so you may able to do more.

Running the 87aki will slow down timing quite a bit. But the stock config will allow it, its just not good. All bmws love octane

Good luck! Also I should be getting an f12 m6 and building it in the near future. Hopefully will keep the m3 for the track and m6 for daily.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-19-2020, 01:41 AM   #30
premo
M3
premo's Avatar
United_States
48
Rep
243
Posts

Drives: E92 ///M3 Jerez Black
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwtechgeek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnVe46 View Post
Your condescending response triggered my "insults", so maybe you should take a less "I know everything approach" in your responses

And in regards to what you're saying, if octane didn't matter, manufacturers wouldn't say the recommended octane for the vehicle on the gas cap, owners manual and other literature for the car.

Nowhere in any of my responses did I say it would destroy the engine, actually said it WONT.

Furthermore, if you look at what I said in my original post, my whole point was why buy a high horsepower car when you don't "use it". Maybe YOU don't use it, but there are plenty who do. Posting that running 87 is perfectly fine is not providing good, quality information. It's a false narrative you provide because it's how YOU justify being cheap on saving pennies on gas. I promise you people will read what you say, go fill with 87 and complain about subpar performance. And yes, the computer will save any major damage to the engine but I'd be willing to bet running lower octane for extended periods of time while pushing it hard, may cause misfires, plug issues etc. You assumed I don't know the difference between octane levels, because I don't agree with running lower octane. You got triggered by my opinion on the matter and put words in my mouth.

If I offended you or anyone, that was not my intention. Providing the correct information on a forum of which lots of people rely on, including myself, is what's important. So, I apologize for throwing insults. One shouldn't make assumptions on another knowledge either. It's a good way to cause these types of posts. While I don't have engineering background, I've helped several on this very forum, fix and maintain their vehicles.
I'm just trying to help as well. I've had too many science discussions about COVID-19 with people who have no science background over the last few weeks, so my advocacy for facts has been on full throttle!

Manufacturers recommend higher octane so they can achieve the higher performance #'s, simple as that. Interestingly, many of the lower HP, smaller engines actually have an even higher compression ratio than the S63. So you'd think the cheapo cars would have issues when people use 87 octane. The reality is, they do just the same from a longevity standpoint (totally agree that power and mpg are lower).

My main point is simple, octane does not equal quality. Nothing wrong with 87 or 89 or 91 or 93 octane when it comes to engine longevity (I've been filling 87 for years in over 50 cars...no issues). The only reason I use 93 in my exotics is because I want full power all the time when I drive them! What is important is the quality of the gas station and their gas. Give me a 87 octane from Top Tier Gas all day over 93 octane from some random gas station.
Your probably right. I've already burnt off most of the gas and the car seems fine. What a relief!
Looks like I was a bit late haha. Anyway, the e85 will increase performance. Just premix lightly if you do
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-19-2020, 08:16 AM   #31
EnVe46
Major
EnVe46's Avatar
697
Rep
1,048
Posts

Drives: 14 M6 GC Comp
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by premo View Post
You could add 2 gallons or so of e85. That will boost your octane. Here is a link to help you calculate:

https://www.brewcity**********/about...ol-calculator/

Most stock tunes will allow for 87 as the lowest. This is incase it is accidentally added to the car. Adding e85 (just a couple gallons) will significantly boost octane (e85=100 to 105 octane). Just remember it has a lower ignition temp (good for the motor), but it will burn about 30% faster. For this reason, dont add too much, unless you tune for it.

Im in a super charged e92 m3 and mix every now and then. Generally its advised not to mix more than e20. The f12 m6 has a better fuel system, so you may able to do more.

Running the 87aki will slow down timing quite a bit. But the stock config will allow it, its just not good. All bmws love octane

Good luck! Also I should be getting an f12 m6 and building it in the near future. Hopefully will keep the m3 for the track and m6 for daily.
I've been fighting some light misfires on my tunes M6, only when it's hit and been running hard. I've added E85 to see if that helps but I may mix in MS109 if the E85 doesn't help. I'm running tighter gapped, colder plugs as well as brand new coils, so my shop and I have determined it fuels related. Next step is to get it in the dyno, get it nice and hot and run some diagnostics. But the wrong octane, WILL lead to issues of some sorts. My case is perfect proof, even though I'm tuned so the variables are more detrimental than a stock tune.
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 ZCP
Interlagos Blau
Appreciate 0
      03-19-2020, 09:49 AM   #32
thebmw
Post Advisor
thebmw's Avatar
450
Rep
1,125
Posts

Drives: Many BMWs and SRTs
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnVe46 View Post
I've been fighting some light misfires on my tunes M6, only when it's hit and been running hard. I've added E85 to see if that helps but I may mix in MS109 if the E85 doesn't help. I'm running tighter gapped, colder plugs as well as brand new coils, so my shop and I have determined it fuels related. Next step is to get it in the dyno, get it nice and hot and run some diagnostics. But the wrong octane, WILL lead to issues of some sorts. My case is perfect proof, even though I'm tuned so the variables are more detrimental than a stock tune.
You're talking about a tuned car and driving hard. You are part of the 1%. 99% of M6 drivers (my estimated % but you my point) are not tuning them and not driving them hard. Simple daily drivers and 87 octane will be just fine. I can give you hundreds of thousands of miles of personal experience to prove it. Remember, octane does not equal quality.

On a separate note, E85 is a completely different Beast. Engines are not designed to run on E85 unless they're flex-fuel certified. So in my opinion, if you put too much E85 in the tank, it will do more damage long term than filling regular old gasoline at 87 octane, which will not do damage to the engine if you drive it normally.
Appreciate 0
      03-19-2020, 02:11 PM   #33
Qsilver7
Lieutenant Colonel
Qsilver7's Avatar
United_States
920
Rep
1,898
Posts

Drives: F06 650ix GC / E53 X5 4.4
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Indiana, USA

iTrader: (0)

E85????

Anyone using E85 fuel may want to read the info below about BMW's stance on fuel blends containing a high percentage of alcohol (over 10%). I do understand that owners can use what they decide is right for themselves...but just in case others may not have a lot of knowledge about fuels with high percentages of alcohol...read the info below to be "in the know" as to where BMW stands on the issue in regards to your car's performance, drive-ability, fuel consumption, and warranty.

In countries were alcohol based fuels are prevalent...BMW has an option for those situations where an ethanol sensor is used: The ethanol sensor is used in conjunction with the Flexible Fuel option, SA1AE.

__________________
2006 E53 X5 4.4 | 2013 F06 650ix Gran Coupe`
BMW CCA Member #191509

Last edited by Qsilver7; 03-19-2020 at 02:25 PM..
Appreciate 1
thebmw450.00

      03-19-2020, 02:15 PM   #34
thebmw
Post Advisor
thebmw's Avatar
450
Rep
1,125
Posts

Drives: Many BMWs and SRTs
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Correct QSilver. I don't know where this myth that octane equals quality came from and I definitely didn't realize that people on this forum are actually putting high doses of E85 in their engines! I thought enthusiasts knew better.
Appreciate 0
      03-19-2020, 02:33 PM   #35
Bmwtechgeek
Private First Class
74
Rep
198
Posts

Drives: Bmw m5
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Usa

iTrader: (0)

Update everyone. Most of the 87 is gone and motor is still running!!
Appreciate 0
      03-19-2020, 03:09 PM   #36
EnVe46
Major
EnVe46's Avatar
697
Rep
1,048
Posts

Drives: 14 M6 GC Comp
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnVe46 View Post
I've been fighting some light misfires on my tunes M6, only when it's hit and been running hard. I've added E85 to see if that helps but I may mix in MS109 if the E85 doesn't help. I'm running tighter gapped, colder plugs as well as brand new coils, so my shop and I have determined it fuels related. Next step is to get it in the dyno, get it nice and hot and run some diagnostics. But the wrong octane, WILL lead to issues of some sorts. My case is perfect proof, even though I'm tuned so the variables are more detrimental than a stock tune.
You're talking about a tuned car and driving hard. You are part of the 1%. 99% of M6 drivers (my estimated % but you my point) are not tuning them and not driving them hard. Simple daily drivers and 87 octane will be just fine. I can give you hundreds of thousands of miles of personal experience to prove it. Remember, octane does not equal quality.

On a separate note, E85 is a completely different Beast. Engines are not designed to run on E85 unless they're flex-fuel certified. So in my opinion, if you put too much E85 in the tank, it will do more damage long term than filling regular old gasoline at 87 octane, which will not do damage to the engine if you drive it normally.
We keep going in circles here. I mentioned I am tuned and running hard which is why I'm experiencing issues. While a stock tuned car won't have issues if they're not running it hard. Said it numerous times and you keep quoting like I haven't stated that already. If I'm not pushing my car at all and running 93, I have no issues. It's purely how the car is driven.

E85 blend has been known to be perfectly fine for our cars. You just can't have to high of E85 content. Max 4 gallons. It's well documented. A manufacturer like BMW won't say it's safe to run since you really can't run a full tank of it. They SHOULD say you can't run it. Cause there will be some dumbass that will run full E85 and wonder why they have issues.

Regardless, the E85 at 4 gallons is a temporary fix for MY issues. I have a VP Racing less than a mile away and will run an MS109 mix with 93 to help. My issue is directly linked to predetonation due to heat. I have zero issues until I'm running it hard consistently. On trips, I'll run pure 93 cause I won't need it. The car is tuned for 93 so I won't run anything else.
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 ZCP
Interlagos Blau
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:15 AM.




6post.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST