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      03-31-2020, 04:43 PM   #45
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Got the first Blackstone analysis back today for my M6. This was with BMW 0W30 in it, since it's still being serviced by them.

This oil had 4,400 miles on it before I had it replaced with Motul 5W30 LL-01 FE as an interim before it next goes in to BMW. Motor has 39k on it.
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      04-01-2020, 10:04 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by plm View Post
Got the first Blackstone analysis back today for my M6. This was with BMW 0W30 in it, since it's still being serviced by them.

This oil had 4,400 miles on it before I had it replaced with Motul 5W30 LL-01 FE as an interim before it next goes in to BMW. Motor has 39k on it.
This looks really good to be honest. the engine wear materials are very very low, that is great! the additives in the oil are low, such as the zinc. however also having low calcium is better for DI engines.

your oil viscosity is also alarmingly good! the flash point is a little low but ok, nothing crazy low. I am surprised the OE oil was this good considering you saying its 0w-30. i wonder which oil company is supplying them now, its rather good compared to some other 0w-30 oils.
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      04-01-2020, 10:13 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by RagtagXMASTER View Post
This looks really good to be honest. the engine wear materials are very very low, that is great! the additives in the oil are low, such as the zinc. however also having low calcium is better for DI engines.
This is what I was hoping for, as I'm considering adding a tune to the car, so wanted to ensure I had a low-risk starting point.

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Originally Posted by RagtagXMASTER View Post
your oil viscosity is also alarmingly good! the flash point is a little low but ok, nothing crazy low. I am surprised the OE oil was this good considering you saying its 0w-30. i wonder which oil company is supplying them now, its rather good compared to some other 0w-30 oils.
This really surprised me, once I started reading about the horror stories of how thin the 30 oils can get over their life. I think the fact that I've done mostly highway miles with gentle warm-up in the period I've had it has helped with its longevity.
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      04-01-2020, 12:38 PM   #48
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I am surprised the OE oil was this good considering you saying its 0w-30. i wonder which oil company is supplying them now, its rather good compared to some other 0w-30 oils.
Shell/Pennzoil is the motor oil company being trotted around on the arms of BMW...and their relationship has been extended to the year 2022:
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      04-02-2020, 12:50 PM   #49
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A lot of good information in here, fellas.

With that being said, I'm still unsure what oil I should run, or if there is even a sure recommendation at this point. For what it's worth, I'm a catless stage 2 car running 93. I plan to possibly run ms109 here and there also (don't know if this even matters). So when I get my oil changed next week, should I switch from 5w30 to 5w40? Motul?

I just spoke with Alex from Mission Tuning and he did in fact suggest I run Motul 5-40 as that's what he runs on his M5. I guess I'm leaning toward that way...

Edit: I'm guessing that means Motul Sport, rather than just the Motul brand in general?

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      04-04-2020, 08:29 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Qsilver7 View Post
Shell/Pennzoil is the motor oil company being trotted around on the arms of BMW...and their relationship has been extended to the year 2022:
Thanks for the info! There is a lot of great information on this thread, hopefully we can get more data points and keep the community well informed.

My next oil sample will be of LM molygen 5w-40, but after this current sample i will be moving to redline 5w-50

good luck with the motul, would like to see the results with that too!
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      04-04-2020, 12:42 PM   #51
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good luck with the motul, would like to see the results with that too!
I don't know how willing BMW will be to pull a sample for me when it's in for an oil change service next, but I will ask them.
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      04-04-2020, 07:27 PM   #52
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I have had really good luck with them. just ask and they will do it. thats my experience at least so far. i gave them the little blackstone labs kit and they said its no problem
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      04-05-2020, 01:31 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Qsilver7 View Post
Shell/Pennzoil is the motor oil company being trotted around on the arms of BMW...and their relationship has been extended to the year 2022:
I am running pennzoil platinum euro full synthetic 5w40 with pure plus technology.
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      04-05-2020, 12:35 PM   #54
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I am running pennzoil platinum euro full synthetic 5w40 with pure plus technology.
Agree, Pennzoil Euro Platinum it's probably the best quality synthetic out there based on the science: extraction of natural gas and the lack of crude oil. It is probably the purest oil out there. I don't understand why many people here I think it's garbage simply because Shell owns it. I also don't know what the love affair with Motul and Liqui Moly is.

Can someone please explain it because there seems to be no science that elevates these brands above Pennzoil Euro Platinum. If there is real science to their products, please let me know because I can't seem to find that anywhere.
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      04-05-2020, 01:41 PM   #55
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I also don't know what the love affair with Motul and Liqui Moly is.

Can someone please explain it because there seems to be no science that elevates these brands above Pennzoil Euro Platinum.
The Motul, at least, has LL-01 FE certification whereas the Pennzoil is LL-01 only. This may be important if you have a warranty and BMW specifies that LL-01 can only be used for up to a quart of top-up oil if LL-01 FE isn't available.
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      04-05-2020, 03:16 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by plm View Post
The Motul, at least, has LL-01 FE certification whereas the Pennzoil is LL-01 only. This may be important if you have a warranty and BMW specifies that LL-01 can only be used for up to a quart of top-up oil if LL-01 FE isn't available.
The "FE" only refers to fuel efficiency. It is a lower running viscosity oil given the same weight specs. So it does not refer to the additives, quality, manufacturing advantages, or beneficial science. Furthermore, all BMW engines I have looked up that can use the "FE" oil can also use the regular LL-01 oil.

Also remember, the "certifications" are licenses. Companies pay to be certified. It does not imply that the oil is necessarily better (though it might be...just don't know since it is a pay-for-play certification). Oils that don't have the certification, like Castrol are not suddenly bad.

So I still wonder, what is all the hype behind Motul, Liqui Moly, Redline, etc. Is it the higher price that makes people think they are better? Or that they are made in Europe (so is Castrol)? So far for years, no one has been able to give me hard science. Just anecdotal points or opinions based on what they heard from someone else (who may or may not have known anything about the science), which is not science.
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      04-05-2020, 03:17 PM   #57
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The Motul, at least, has LL-01 FE certification whereas the Pennzoil is LL-01 only.
Based on the oil charts from the BMW TIS website...Motul and Pennzoil are both on the LL-01 list (enclosure 4 at the following link) and LL-04 list (see enclosure 6). Motul is also listed on the LL-12 FE list (see enclosure 7). The only oil brands listed that are LL-01 FE are the BMW oil brand (click on enclosure 5 at the following link): https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...enance/1PSryV8
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      04-05-2020, 03:54 PM   #58
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Furthermore, all BMW engines I have looked up that can use the "FE" oil can also use the regular LL-01 oil.
For the M6 BMW states that you can top up with a quart of LL-01, but you can't fill with it and have to use LL-01 FE. It's clear as day in the manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsilver7 View Post
Based on the oil charts from the BMW TIS website...Motul and Pennzoil are both on the LL-01 list (enclosure 4 at the following link) and LL-04 list (see enclosure 6). Motul is also listed on the LL-12 FE list (see enclosure 7). The only oil brands listed that are LL-01 FE are the BMW oil brand
Motul 109371 Specific is LL-01 FE. I have the bottle in front of me.
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      04-05-2020, 04:06 PM   #59
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For the M6 BMW states that you can top up with a quart of LL-01, but you can't fill with it and have to use LL-01 FE. It's clear as day in the manual.
LL-01 and LL-01 FE are substituable. FE is literally there to meet fuel efficiency guidelines. That is why the owners manual says you "have to use xxx", otherwise they will be subject to be tested using the other oil which may make them restate their fuel efficiency numbers. Then they will have a BIG problem on their hands and may be subject to fines, like Hyundai/Kia:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ileage-figures

What year M6 do you have?
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      04-05-2020, 04:09 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsilver7 View Post
Based on the oil charts from the BMW TIS website...Motul and Pennzoil are both on the LL-01 list (enclosure 4 at the following link) and LL-04 list (see enclosure 6). Motul is also listed on the LL-12 FE list (see enclosure 7). The only oil brands listed that are LL-01 FE are the BMW oil brand (click on enclosure 5 at the following link): https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...enance/1PSryV8
Clearly shows that LL-01 and LL-01 FE are used in the same engines.
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      04-05-2020, 04:44 PM   #61
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My engineering skills and understanding fall significantly short to fully understand this conversation, but if there is a takeaway: don’t compromise your engine performance and reliability with inferior quality oil. Where this gets really confusing is when people who clearly understand something about this topic can’t seem to agree on what is good and what is not good. Also, for reference, here in Australia BMW categorically recommends Castro’s, yet appears based on this conversation Castro’s is not certified... Anyway, since I’m not tracking my car, nor do we have any meaningful opportunities to use a high performance car the way it could be used (without a jail term, that is), I will stick to the logic of changing oil and filter every 5-6k km (3,5k miles) and use dealer supplied oil. The scary part here is that I’m not 100% comfortable that the dealership actually is supplying (technically) the best oil for the engine, but rather (commercially) best oil for themselves. Will get an oil analysis done when the next oil change is due on Wednesday this week, I hope that proves my decision making at least reasonably sound...
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      04-05-2020, 05:02 PM   #62
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My engineering skills and understanding fall significantly short to fully understand this conversation, but if there is a takeaway: don’t compromise your engine performance and reliability with inferior quality oil. Where this gets really confusing is when people who clearly understand something about this topic can’t seem to agree on what is good and what is not good. Also, for reference, here in Australia BMW categorically recommends Castro’s, yet appears based on this conversation Castro’s is not certified... Anyway, since I’m not tracking my car, nor do we have any meaningful opportunities to use a high performance car the way it could be used (without a jail term, that is), I will stick to the logic of changing oil and filter every 5-6k km (3,5k miles) and use dealer supplied oil. The scary part here is that I’m not 100% comfortable that the dealership actually is supplying (technically) the best oil for the engine, but rather (commercially) best oil for themselves. Will get an oil analysis done when the next oil change is due on Wednesday this week, I hope that proves my decision making at least reasonably sound...
Agree, especially with the point about BMW's "recommended" oil. We all know that BMW has made some awful recommendations about oil and oil changes which have lead to catastrophic problems, conveniently after the warranty period is over!

Definitely change oil AT THE LATEST, every 7.5k miles or 12 months, whichever is first. I think more frequently than 5k miles and 6 months is overkill, especially if you are not beating on the car, which you are not. These are all high quality synthetic oils, not conventional motor oils.

I would still love to have someone with real knowledge tell me why Motul, Liqui Moly, Redline, etc are so great. Personally, I love the science behind Pennzoil Euro Platinum, but that doesn't mean there isn't something better out there.
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      04-05-2020, 07:48 PM   #63
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There is a video on youtube of some guy that put all the oils to the test and at the end declared a winner sending it to test lab and such stuff.
Link to the whole series of testing:
watch it. Only reason why I went with pennzoil. I think I know what the guy is doing.
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      04-06-2020, 08:47 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 936F06 View Post
There is a video on youtube of some guy that put all the oils to the test and at the end declared a winner sending it to test lab and such stuff.
Link to the whole series of testing:
watch it. Only reason why I went with pennzoil. I think I know what the guy is doing.
I enjoy watching project farm but this isnt real testing, just in case you think it is. if you subject the oil to the pressure between con rod and crank, as well as piston to wall then id say its close. the amount of pressure on the oil is critical to its performance. PF has a good idea how oil reacts and works in large quantities relatively. we are talking about film strength really, and even though he does "film strength" test on a bearing, its not really the same, the oil film is huge by comparison to what your engine sees. also the blow by from the rings is a big part as well. even though we think there is minimal blow by, that gas and pressure is able to escape by the PCV system. but the oil still sees some pressure from combustion gas. i would say the most important part from his videos is the test lab results. ensuring high viscosity at operating temp is what is really valuable as well as the additives in the oil. just keep your calcium content lower than what is normal in most engine oils as it is what is seemed to cause the most amount of LSPI events.

As for what BMW does, they are in it to make money, not longevity. the car is meant to be replaceable by them, not to last forever. its this enthusiast community that takes it to the longest ability of its life cycle.

This thread is very valuable and the only science i think that can be of the upmost benefit is getting more test samples of different oils. no matter what manufacturer has to say about their product, the test results speak for themselves. the Liqui moly is over rated in my opinion having run it in my vehicle, but was an upgrade from my original BMW oil.
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      05-01-2020, 07:25 PM   #65
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I received my oil test results back today. I’m not an engineer, so this doesn’t say that much to me, but a call-out that there may be a problem developing is probably something to be worried about? Here is an explanation from the tester when I asked what does this mean in practise:

“I think it is well worth getting BM to take a look at the fuel rail and injectors to see where they maybe a possible leak.
The effect that the fuel has is a chain reaction. First of all it effects the Viscosity, this is thinning of the oil out, this in turn doesn’t supply adequate separation between components and they will start to wear beyond a nature rate.
The fuel will also effect the additives within the oil, Total base number will drop out so too will other additives making the oil pretty much non usable after a certain amount of time.

All I all these obviously lead to unnecessary wear and dependent on the fuel dilution amount, can cause a lot of damage.”

Does anyone have experiences of similar issues? Needless to say, I will make contact with my local BMW service on Monday, considering the car is still under warranty until October, best to get their attention to this now.
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      05-02-2020, 09:20 AM   #66
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The injectors can stick open. Dumping furl into the cylinder and it passes the rings. It then thins the oil and increases wear. It would be best to change all of them since they are there. Very hard to find which one is leaky. This is a common problem on the F chassis cars
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