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      07-27-2020, 02:51 PM   #1
patchesj
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Oil analysis/choice discussion

After hijacking another thread (sorry...) figured the discussion was better started anew. I have attached my recent Blackstone report from 2700 mi old Castrol 5w-30 done at BMW dealership. I have since moved to 5w-40 Molygen in hopes of improving high temp viscosity (My sample came back just barely in the 30w range) and lowering Ca (Theory is that high Ca can lead to pre-ignition under boost in engines that burn more oil... Read=not good for S63's).

I believe the slightly elevated Ti and Ca might indicate the dealer did NOT use the "EU" version of Castrol, but this is totally theoretical on my part.

Also, super handy oil viscosity conversion chart from: https://www.synlube.com/viscosit.htm
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      07-27-2020, 04:28 PM   #2
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Thanks for posting this.

Attached mine below:

2014 F06, sample taken Nov-19 at approx 45k miles. Stock, no performance mods.

Sample was taken right after I purchased the vehicle. After running onboard oil analysis, I topped up 1 quart Mobil 1 0W-30, around a week prior to getting the oil change service. Oil service was carried out at BMW (OEM filter and OEM 0W-30). For anyone interested, cost including labour was $170.
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      07-27-2020, 05:47 PM   #3
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I have been reading a lot about oils (years). To me the Bmw 0w-30 works perfectly fine for the s63 engine for everyday driving. There isn't a need to look for a magical oil. Most people don't even own the car for more than 5 years. Follow the recommendation and you will be fine. Unless people modified, tuned or race the car.
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      07-27-2020, 06:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC04 View Post
I have been reading a lot about oils (years). To me the Bmw 0w-30 works perfectly fine for the s63 engine for everyday driving. There isn't a need to look for a magical oil. Most people don't even own the car for more than 5 years. Follow the recommendation and you will be fine. Unless people modified, tuned or race the car.

To quote myself from the other thread, this isn't so much about a "magic oil" but knowing that oils are made for specific purposes, they have limited lifetimes, and your engine oil needs to be treated with respect in a performance motor.

"Personally, $30 for a test every oil change, changes every 5k miles, using the highest quality oil available, and having a startup/shutdown process seems to be minimal investment vs even just a bearing replacement (which may or may not be necessary proactively to prevent full failure)"
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      07-28-2020, 11:00 AM   #5
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I will drop my my oil reports here as well. here is my google doc i made of all of my blackstone reports so far.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

this should be a really good oil comparison thread with some good forth coming information and data
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      07-28-2020, 01:27 PM   #6
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Interesting the standard liquimoly 5-30 seems to show more wear, but that was also a 10k interval?
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      07-28-2020, 01:55 PM   #7
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I just did my first oil change of my ownership about a week ago along with new plugs and coils.

I purchased the car CPO from BMW at ~46k miles and the oil change was done when they took the vehicle in initially. I changed it at just under 50k. I did not have to add oil at any time during this 4k mile interval.

Given that the oil was serviced at BMW's recommended interval of 10k in previous ownership I wanted to try and get the car back to as clean of slate as possible.

Prior to the oil change I used 2 500ml cans of Liqui Moly Engine Flush to help remove any sludgy build up from the long intervals of previous oil changes. I went with Liqui Moly Molygen 5W-40 for the new oil along with 2 300ml Bottles of Liqui Moly Ceratec in with it to 'rejuvenate' the internals in a sense.

* Both the Engine Flush and Ceratec products are to be used only every 5th oil service or 25,000 miles per Liqui Moly spec.

I would like to do a Blackstone analysis once this oil comes out at 55k but my question is would the Ceratec additive skew the analysis on the oil coming out? Should I wait for the following oil service at 60k where ONLY the Liqui Moly 5W-40 Molygen is what is coming out of the engine for a true sample?
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      07-28-2020, 01:55 PM   #8
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yes. when i purchased the car that was the oil that was used by the previous owner. I then being new to BMW, M and higher performance cars, thought a 10k interval was fine, i mean the dealer thinks so! After seeing the report come back I started to trickle my service intervals to lower mileages not only to see how far the oil would go but also to see where the least wear is. so far the next step is going to be at 3k miles. it would have been a more controlled test with all the same oil weights, but i figured 2 variables is ok. all with similar daily driven characteristics.
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      07-28-2020, 01:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJohnson32 View Post
I just did my first oil change of my ownership about a week ago along with new plugs and coils.

I purchased the car CPO from BMW at ~46k miles and the oil change was done when they took the vehicle in initially. I changed it at just under 50k. I did not have to add oil at any time during this 4k mile interval.

Given that the oil was serviced at BMW's recommended interval of 10k in previous ownership I wanted to try and get the car back to as clean of slate as possible.

Prior to the oil change I used 2 500ml cans of Liqui Moly Engine Flush to help remove any sludgy build up from the long intervals of previous oil changes. I went with Liqui Moly Molygen 5W-40 for the new oil along with 2 300ml Bottles of Liqui Moly Ceratec in with it to 'rejuvenate' the internals in a sense.

* Both the Engine Flush and Ceratec products are to be used only every 5th oil service or 25,000 miles per Liqui Moly spec.

I would like to do a Blackstone analysis once this oil comes out at 55k but my question is would the Ceratec additive skew the analysis on the oil coming out? Should I wait for the following oil service at 60k where ONLY the Liqui Moly 5W-40 Molygen is what is coming out of the engine for a true sample?

This might be a very good question for LiquiMoly tech support. Personally, I would test both times... Also, I've heard LiquiMoly say you didn't need to use more additives with MolyGen as "it's already in there"?
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      07-28-2020, 02:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patchesj View Post
This might be a very good question for LiquiMoly tech support. Personally, I would test both times... Also, I've heard LiquiMoly say you didn't need to use more additives with MolyGen as "it's already in there"?
Good point, I guess I didn't really think of that last point to be honest

If the additives in the Ceratec product are already in the Molygen oil, I suppose there is a slightly elevated concentration of those additives thus affecting an analysis to some degree. Thinking if the first time the engine has seen these additives is at 50k and LiquiMoly recommends every 25k, hopefully no harm in having a slightly elevated concentration for the next 5k miles and will balance itself out in a sense. Perhaps another reason to reach out to their support staff.

FWIW, I will note that I have noticed an audible difference at cruising speeds between the OEM oil that was in the car to the combination that is in the car now, noticeably quieter and smoother. Cold starts seem to idle more consistently and smoothly as well.
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      07-28-2020, 02:33 PM   #11
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I don't think there would be any negative impact, other than false high measurements of additives.

I've noticed a significantly quieter engine as well after moving from Castrol 5-30 to Molygen 5-40. I thought it was in my head, but sounds (no pun) like maybe not.
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      07-28-2020, 03:33 PM   #12
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when i ran the molygen 5w-40 it does run smoother and quieter. I think its the dry lube moly that is in the oil that really helps it. it is very good oil. i wonder if their new 5w-50 molygen is just as good!

I run redline 5w-50 now and i see the elevated oil temps and notice it is a "louder" but I would rather have the thicker oil so far, maybe thats a placebo effect in my mind, we will find out after the next oil sample!
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      07-28-2020, 08:24 PM   #13
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Just got my Blackstone report back the other day as well. I purchased the car in October of 2018 and this is the first time I changed the oil. I was confused why it stated S63B44 on the report so I e-mailed them and they provided insight to that. I've uploaded their response for everyone's information.

I put around 5,000 miles on the oil and not sure how many miles were put on the oil from the previous owner. But the report came back positive so I was pleased. This was a combination of driving unmodified, stage 1 bootmod3, and stage 2 bootmod3. As well as a combination of Southern California and Washington state climates. I also never needed to add any oil.

I switched to 5W-40 LiquiMoly Leichtlauf High Tech on this oil change and will go 5,000 miles and do another analysis.
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      07-29-2020, 02:48 AM   #14
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So I am running LiquiMoly Special Tec 5W-30, and I just sent out my stuff to Blackstone also, will post back in this thread.

I want to add something to this discussion that is not being discussed - oil change intervals are only 1 PIECE of the PIE when it comes to the S63. The other two pieces are:

- High Quality Oil
- Waiting until oil reaches OPERATING TEMP before subjecting engine to load

This isn't EVERYTHING when it comes to maintaining these motors but people just think I'm going to start changing my oil often but then beat on it 60 seconds after I pull her out of the garage I'll be ok - no. Best practices are oil changes every 3-5k, good quality oil (something that I think should be debated more) and LET oil temp get to AT LEAST 200F before giving even more than 60% throttle!
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      07-29-2020, 07:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Frost View Post
So I am running LiquiMoly Special Tec 5W-30, and I just sent out my stuff to Blackstone also, will post back in this thread.

I want to add something to this discussion that is not being discussed - oil change intervals are only 1 PIECE of the PIE when it comes to the S63. The other two pieces are:

- High Quality Oil
- Waiting until oil reaches OPERATING TEMP before subjecting engine to load

This isn't EVERYTHING when it comes to maintaining these motors but people just think I'm going to start changing my oil often but then beat on it 60 seconds after I pull her out of the garage I'll be ok - no. Best practices are oil changes every 3-5k, good quality oil (something that I think should be debated more) and LET oil temp get to AT LEAST 200F before giving even more than 60% throttle!
Completely agree...
"Personally, $30 for a test every oil change, changes every 5k miles, using the highest quality oil available, and having a startup/shutdown process seems to be minimal investment vs even just a bearing replacement (which may or may not be necessary proactively to prevent full failure)"

It was mentioned in another thread and not reposted here I think, but you must absolutely allow oil to reach a stable temp before putting it under load. That is easily the number one thing to do for these motors, really any ICE. I would say 30% throttle (off boost) or 3k RPM actually in the S63.

I'm fairly new to my M6, but I recall other M cars having a variable red line on the tach that would slowly go away during warm up? It was still way to high, but at least was a visual reminder to keep you foot out of it.
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      07-29-2020, 10:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Frost View Post
So I am running LiquiMoly Special Tec 5W-30, and I just sent out my stuff to Blackstone also, will post back in this thread.

I want to add something to this discussion that is not being discussed - oil change intervals are only 1 PIECE of the PIE when it comes to the S63. The other two pieces are:

- High Quality Oil
- Waiting until oil reaches OPERATING TEMP before subjecting engine to load

This isn't EVERYTHING when it comes to maintaining these motors but people just think I'm going to start changing my oil often but then beat on it 60 seconds after I pull her out of the garage I'll be ok - no. Best practices are oil changes every 3-5k, good quality oil (something that I think should be debated more) and LET oil temp get to AT LEAST 200F before giving even more than 60% throttle!
Interested to see your results with the 5W-30 SpecialTec as that is LiquiMoly's direct replacement for the OEM oil as far as weight goes. I was between that oil and the 5W-40 Molygen I ended up going with.

I absolutely agree with your philosophy on bringing the engine to temp before placing load on the drivetrain. I figured these were common sense things but I guess for some perhaps not

Quote:
Originally Posted by patchesj View Post
Completely agree...
"Personally, $30 for a test every oil change, changes every 5k miles, using the highest quality oil available, and having a startup/shutdown process seems to be minimal investment vs even just a bearing replacement (which may or may not be necessary proactively to prevent full failure)"

It was mentioned in another thread and not reposted here I think, but you must absolutely allow oil to reach a stable temp before putting it under load. That is easily the number one thing to do for these motors, really any ICE. I would say 30% throttle (off boost) or 3k RPM actually in the S63.

I'm fairly new to my M6, but I recall other M cars having a variable red line on the tach that would slowly go away during warm up? It was still way to high, but at least was a visual reminder to keep you foot out of it.
My Audi S6 C7 had that feature and it was kind of nice. Little red LED's bordering the tach that would recede back to the red line as the engine came up to temp. Agree though that it was almost always high based on whatever temp the car was at.

I always drive my M6 in manual mode in an effort to control RPM's even more when cold as well as it just being more fun when the car is warm too. My typical warm up procedure from cold looks something like:
  1. Start engine, allow to idle down before putting in gear
  2. First 3-5 minutes, very gentle load, short shifting to keep RPM's below 2k even
  3. 5-10 minutes, still gentle load but allowing RPM's to creep up above 2k to 2,500
  4. Once the oil temp needle creeps off the bottom 160 hash - gentle to moderate (50% throttle MAX) load up to 3k until engine is at full operating temp
I also make a note to cool the car back down when I know I'll be shutting it off soon. Usually revert back to list item #2 for the warm up procedure for the last 2 minutes or so of driving so the car shuts down at just under the 205 degree middle dot.

Car is also always in sport plus drivetrain for the enhanced cooling. I haven't experimented with keeping it in 'Efficient' during the warm up process to see if it warms it up any quicker or not, but I may give it a shot and report back
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      07-29-2020, 11:41 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJohnson32 View Post
Car is also always in sport plus drivetrain for the enhanced cooling. I haven't experimented with keeping it in 'Efficient' during the warm up process to see if it warms it up any quicker or not, but I may give it a shot and report back
I warm up in efficient, as I'm not 100% on what the engine mapping changes are for sport+ and my gut tells me this will keep the timing and boost backed off at part throttle (less stress) vs sport or sport+.
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      07-29-2020, 11:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patchesj View Post
I warm up in efficient, as I'm not 100% on what the engine mapping changes are for sport+ and my gut tells me this will keep the timing and boost backed off at part throttle (less stress) vs sport or sport+.
This makes sense. I like to think I'm easy enough on the throttle to where this wouldn't be an issue even in Sport Plus, but having it in Efficient certainly won't do it any harm in this regard. In theory it should also warm it up more quickly than having it in Sport Plus as well.
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      07-29-2020, 02:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJohnson32 View Post
  1. Start engine, allow to idle down before putting in gear
  2. First 3-5 minutes, very gentle load, short shifting to keep RPM's below 2k even
  3. 5-10 minutes, still gentle load but allowing RPM's to creep up above 2k to 2,500
  4. Once the oil temp needle creeps off the bottom 160 hash - gentle to moderate (50% throttle MAX) load up to 3k until engine is at full operating temp
I also make a note to cool the car back down when I know I'll be shutting it off soon. Usually revert back to list item #2 for the warm up procedure for the last 2 minutes or so of driving so the car shuts down at just under the 205 degree middle dot.

Car is also always in sport plus drivetrain for the enhanced cooling. I haven't experimented with keeping it in 'Efficient' during the warm up process to see if it warms it up any quicker or not, but I may give it a shot and report back
Definitely agreed on this list. Do the same on mine aside for #2 the RPMs are usually between 2.5-3k.

I do have a question surrounding the last pt on "Sport + means enhanced cooling". How exactly is that possible? I have heard this before but never had any additional context.
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      07-29-2020, 03:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineKing View Post
Definitely agreed on this list. Do the same on mine aside for #2 the RPMs are usually between 2.5-3k.

I do have a question surrounding the last pt on "Sport + means enhanced cooling". How exactly is that possible? I have heard this before but never had any additional context.
If I remember correctly in Sport Plus the water pumps are running full time versus part time in Efficient. Not sure about their behavior in just normal Sport mode though
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      07-29-2020, 04:21 PM   #21
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in sport+ your water pumps are on constantly and drop your water temps to the 180-190F zone under normal driving, under heavier load i have seen it approach 210F but doesnt really go past it too much.

In efficient and Sport the water pumps turn on and off when needed same thing with electric fans. the normal temps are in the 230F range, well over boiling point of water. the coolant increases the boiling point but that just seems too hot to me.
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      07-29-2020, 04:26 PM   #22
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I run my car in sport+ right from the start, and dont let it go over 4k until i see my oil temps come over 100F, this is easier for me with an Awron gauge to notice, since it is right in my face. but id also keep the boost low, maybe 5 psi max for driving around when its not at operating temp. I mean the car moves plenty well only making 2 psi of boost on side streets on the drive into work.
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