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      04-11-2021, 07:37 PM   #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sublime00 View Post
Why would this be the last M car with a manual?

I think BMW will keep making a manual M car as long if there's a market for one. As long as the net emissions by the manufacturer meet whatever standard is set by the country they're selling in, which if hypothetically 80% of the model range is electric, would be plenty of ICE manual cars that BMW could build.

Isn't the M2 almost 50/50 take rate between manual and DCT? Why lose out on that market share?
That market you speak of is a drop in the bucket compared to the more mainstream cars BMW sell so I'm nowhere as confident as you are that they will keep making it available past the G87 LCI (EOP 2029 I believe? ).

While the take rate is quite high in the US for manual M's which is wonderful, I can also point out that the new M3/4 are not available with a manual in some pretty big markets such as the UK and China.

We've already seen AMG announcing they're going with PHEVs imminently, I have a hard time believing that in almost 10 years, the M2/3/4 will not follow same path. At that point, would they develop an iteration of the S58 with a manual that's a PHEV at the same time? Or maybe make the Comp PHEV and base regular ICE?

Maybe I'm being a little pessimistic, but I think the time for the type of cars I grew up loving is coming to an end. Hope to be proven wrong.
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      04-12-2021, 01:27 PM   #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sublime00 View Post
Why would this be the last M car with a manual?

I think BMW will keep making a manual M car as long if there's a market for one. As long as the net emissions by the manufacturer meet whatever standard is set by the country they're selling in, which if hypothetically 80% of the model range is electric, would be plenty of ICE manual cars that BMW could build.

Isn't the M2 almost 50/50 take rate between manual and DCT? Why lose out on that market share?
That market you speak of is a drop in the bucket compared to the more mainstream cars BMW sell so I'm nowhere as confident as you are that they will keep making it available past the G87 LCI (EOP 2029 I believe? ).

While the take rate is quite high in the US for manual M's which is wonderful, I can also point out that the new M3/4 are not available with a manual in some pretty big markets such as the UK and China.

We've already seen AMG announcing they're going with PHEVs imminently, I have a hard time believing that in almost 10 years, the M2/3/4 will not follow same path. At that point, would they develop an iteration of the S58 with a manual that's a PHEV at the same time? Or maybe make the Comp PHEV and base regular ICE?

Maybe I'm being a little pessimistic, but I think the time for the type of cars I grew up loving is coming to an end. Hope to be proven wrong.
I think there will be a buttload of tech crammed into these cars, so yeah in that sense cars won't be like the cars you/we may have grown up with, they'll be infinitely more complicated, but I don't see BMW not offering at least one manual sports car option for drivers.

I'll be the optimist.
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      04-18-2021, 08:19 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I have not seen G87 in person yet. The standard 2er G42 uses this
Three Car mix in its structure. I have learned this is expensive to complete but are doing it in regards to the goodwill brought by the M2. ( See they can be nice)
Had they not then the whole 2er Would have been driven by its front wheels.
One quote I have heard is that it's a Z4 Coupe.
What do you think then, the chances of seeing an LCI Z4 manual, or Z4M car since its on the same CLAR platform?
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      04-18-2021, 10:24 PM   #642
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Originally Posted by mslam02 View Post
What do you think then, the chances of seeing an LCI Z4 manual, or Z4M car since its on the same CLAR platform?
Probably 0 because the Z4 (predictably) sold like -5 units .

People don't want a tourer from BMW. It should have driven like the Supra and been available with a manual and it would have done better. Still, it's a dying segment and they would never beat Porsche anyway.
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      04-19-2021, 05:12 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by mslam02 View Post
What do you think then, the chances of seeing an LCI Z4 manual, or Z4M car since its on the same CLAR platform?
Zero.
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      04-19-2021, 06:24 PM   #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mslam02 View Post
What do you think then, the chances of seeing an LCI Z4 manual, or Z4M car since its on the same CLAR platform?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Probably 0 because the Z4 (predictably) sold like -5 units .

People don't want a tourer from BMW. It should have driven like the Supra and been available with a manual and it would have done better. Still, it's a dying segment and they would never beat Porsche anyway.
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Zero.
A slightly detuned S58 (a la G87 M2 variant) with a 6MT in a Supra though...there's a beast! Sadly, that's too obvious for BMW to green light.
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      04-20-2021, 02:07 AM   #645
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Originally Posted by F8SEVEN View Post
A slightly detuned S58 (a la G87 M2 variant) with a 6MT in a Supra though...there's a beast! Sadly, that's too obvious for BMW to green light.
A 718 Spyder fighter...

Too niche for the current guys wielding the big stick I guess

Spending on EVs and Hybrids are whatís keeping them in the job
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      04-22-2021, 07:32 PM   #646
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Unlike Current Model, 2023 BMW M2 to Get 50:50 Weight Distribution
Whether youíre on the fence about the huge nostrils of the latest BMW M3 and M4 or not, there is no denying that their performance is the highest as it has ever been.
Even without the addition of the M xDrive all-wheel-drive system, which is not yet available for Competition models, the two sports cars are way faster than their predecessors while also offering a high level of driver involvement thanks to the perfect 50:50 weight distribution and the availability of a manual transmission.
The M2, on the other hand, has always been the sweetheart of M purists, who always saw it as a 2002 Turbo revival in almost every sense, especially when compared to its more bloated big brothers.
BMW knows this, which is why the 2023 BMW M2 is likely to become the most M car of the third millennium, and probably the last old-school BMW before the rise of the electrics.
Unlike the recently out of production M2 Competition, which has a 53:47 weight distribution on the front and rear axle, its replacement will get a perfect 50:50 one thanks to a host of modifications.
This is apparently one of the reasons why pre-production models of the model have been caught testing in the real world as early as 2020, over two years before the car is supposed to go on sale.
In theory, the new M2 should be easy to develop since itís based on a shortened platform used by the current M4, and it will even sport a detuned version of the same powertrain, but the perfect weight distribution is harder to replicate in a much shorter vehicle.
Rumors are saying that the CS-only CFRP roof will be standard on the M2, alongside other more subtle mods to bring the front end weight down.
Speaking of powertrain, the model will use the same 3.0-liter twin-turbocharged inline-six, codenamed S58B30T0 in the current BMW M3, M4 and soon to be facelifted X3 M and X4 M.
With around 420 horsepower and 550 Nm (406 lb-ft) of torque at its disposal, sent to the rear wheels via either a six-speed manual or an 8-speed automatic transmission, the 2023 M2 will simply improve the recipe used by its predecessor in this department.
Future M2 CS and Competition versions are expected to get around 20 horsepower more, and there are even rumors of an M2 CSL, following in the footsteps of the upcoming M4 CSL.
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      04-22-2021, 07:48 PM   #647
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I hope insiders can confirm DCT will not be available at all for future M models, so some like myself can move on to different propositions.
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      04-22-2021, 07:50 PM   #648
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Yeah I think the new M2 will be my next car/first M.
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      04-22-2021, 07:54 PM   #649
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Yeah I think the new M2 will be my next car/first M.
Me too!
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      04-22-2021, 08:05 PM   #650
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I hope insiders can confirm DCT will not be available at all for future M models, so some like myself can move on to different propositions.
I think DCT is pretty much a dodo at this point, maybe just maybe it'll drop in a GTS type special edition but those will be a lot of $$$ and a big price to pay just for a DCT. I'll tell you one thing for certain, G87 won't look as good as F87 judging by 2 series leaks
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      04-22-2021, 08:13 PM   #651
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Ugh, the rear sliders again. Please kill this horrific fad BMW is obsessed with.
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      04-22-2021, 08:20 PM   #652
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Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
I think DCT is pretty much a dodo at this point, maybe just maybe it'll drop in a GTS type special edition but those will be a lot of $$$ and a big price to pay just for a DCT. I'll tell you one thing for certain, G87 won't look as good as F87 judging by 2 series leaks
I understand, but I do value insiders' info on this. Confirmation of no-DCT in the future will be a deciding factor for my next car purchase.
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      04-22-2021, 08:34 PM   #653
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Me too!
Me three. Well maybe
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      04-22-2021, 08:36 PM   #654
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ZF8? ///marketing strikes again
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      04-22-2021, 09:21 PM   #655
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ZF8? ///marketing strikes again
I'd hope they will stick with a DCT since they are not going to be giving it AWD and they stated in that last article that this will be the most M vehicle to date, so that should hopefully mean sticking with DCT.
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      04-23-2021, 12:08 AM   #656
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Originally Posted by IllSic_Design View Post
I'd hope they will stick with a DCT since they are not going to be giving it AWD and they stated in that last article that this will be the most M vehicle to date, so that should hopefully mean sticking with DCT.
Pretty much zero chance. The software effort would be > 0 because BMW has no S58 applications that mate with DCT. It would require a lot of testing and development that they don't want to do. The M2 will be far lower volume than M3/M4, so if you didn't see one there, you won't see one in the M2.
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      04-23-2021, 12:13 AM   #657
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Ugh, the rear sliders again. Please kill this horrific fad BMW is obsessed with.
BMW and others just buy whatever Brembo's current system is and Brembo works with them to customize it for their application. I believe Mercedes and Audi are using sliding rear calipers now too in a lot of high performance models because Brembo has pushed them in this direction. The reality is that even though it looks ugly, you can see the braking performance is improved in G8x. It helps them be able to use the electronic parking brake, too.

If you think about it, a single piston slider was good enough for E92 M3 front brakes. They weren't the best brakes, but that front caliper was doing a hell of a lot more work than the rears here. Saves weight too.
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      04-23-2021, 12:55 AM   #658
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I'd hope they will stick with a DCT since they are not going to be giving it AWD and they stated in that last article that this will be the most M vehicle to date, so that should hopefully mean sticking with DCT.
Yeah I don't see any chance that the M2 gets a DCT. ZF8 is just too easy from a supply chain perspective and too good from an objective performance perspective that it wouldn't make sense to appease a couple of us old heads kicking and screaming for DCT.

Plus philosophically speaking, if BMW paired S58 with a DCT, they would then have to answer the question as to why they are keeping the redline low at 7200 when DCT can easily handle the 7600 engine limit. If they raise it on a mass production model like an M2, the M3/4 & X3/4M owners will be up in arms.
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      04-23-2021, 12:56 AM   #659
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
BMW and others just buy whatever Brembo's current system is and Brembo works with them to customize it for their application. I believe Mercedes and Audi are using sliding rear calipers now too in a lot of high performance models because Brembo has pushed them in this direction. The reality is that even though it looks ugly, you can see the braking performance is improved in G8x. It helps them be able to use the electronic parking brake, too.

If you think about it, a single piston slider was good enough for E92 M3 front brakes. They weren't the best brakes, but that front caliper was doing a hell of a lot more work than the rears here. Saves weight too.
I did watch a DIY to change the rear pads on this new e-brake single piston caliper and it is a bit more of a pain than the rears on cars prior. But yeah, outside of looking kind of strange/funny, it clearly can do the job
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      04-23-2021, 09:18 AM   #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
I hope insiders can confirm DCT will not be available at all for future M models, so some like myself can move on to different propositions.
You may as well move on now as it's going to be a ZF8. Porsche or low level Audi or VW's are the last stops for volume DCT's.
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