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      06-17-2021, 10:09 PM   #749
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It will be mostly hybrid or have some electrical assist.
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      06-17-2021, 11:01 PM   #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by deceptiv-cs View Post
I think all the G series tech will inevitably make it heavier
What if it doesn't?
Show me a time where a new generation was lighter than the previous generation

ND vs NC miata doesn't count
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      06-17-2021, 11:02 PM   #751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post
It will be mostly hybrid or have some electrical assist.
what other G series Ms are hybrid?

Oh right, none of them
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      06-17-2021, 11:23 PM   #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom7835 View Post
Show me a time where a new generation was lighter than the previous generation

ND vs NC miata doesn't count
F80 m vs E90 m.
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      06-17-2021, 11:31 PM   #753
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Originally Posted by Game View Post
Still loving the way this thing looks and sits.
Same here. Although BMW won't actually do it, I really wish BMW would pair the S58 with the DCT on this. One last hurrah for the awesome ICE & the last M2 that's truly engaging in every sense of the word.

One can only hope right.... ?
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      06-18-2021, 12:03 AM   #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom7835 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by deceptiv-cs View Post
I think all the G series tech will inevitably make it heavier
What if it doesn't?
Show me a time where a new generation was lighter than the previous generation

ND vs NC miata doesn't count
F30 less than E90, G29 lighter than E89, Range Rover L405 was 900lb lighter than the L322. That's 3 just off the top of my head.
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      06-18-2021, 12:09 AM   #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_The_Clean1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Game View Post
Still loving the way this thing looks and sits.
Same here. Although BMW won't actually do it, I really wish BMW would pair the S58 with the DCT on this. One last hurrah for the awesome ICE & the last M2 that's truly engaging in every sense of the word.

One can only hope right.... ?
Wont happen. DCT is done.
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      06-18-2021, 01:36 AM   #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
F30 less than E90, G29 lighter than E89, Range Rover L405 was 900lb lighter than the L322. That's 3 just off the top of my head.
Are you sure with F30 over E90?
On paper maybe ... not in reality.
Different story with F8x vs E9x. Although the weight decrease was minimal opposed to official data! If you compared F82 without CCB vs M3 Coupe the delta in real world measurement was around 20kg.
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      06-18-2021, 01:41 AM   #757
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Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
Wont happen. DCT is done.
520ps S58 + DCT from BMW 🤣
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      06-18-2021, 01:43 AM   #758
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Looks like the big front flares will hopefully eliminate that understeer the M2 is famous for. The most frustrating thing I ever experienced.
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      06-18-2021, 08:00 AM   #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom7835 View Post
Show me a time where a new generation was lighter than the previous generation

ND vs NC miata doesn't count
I believe the G29 is a hair lighter than the E89. Could be the deletion of the hardtop vert.
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      06-18-2021, 08:08 AM   #760
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Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Looks like the big front flares will hopefully eliminate that understeer the M2 is famous for. The most frustrating thing I ever experienced.
Is this a joke? Lol
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      06-18-2021, 08:18 AM   #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mslam02 View Post
Other than those you mention, there is also the upcoming nissan Z: ~400hp twin turbo RWD + manual

And the Lotus Emira: >420hp mid-engine RWD manual (though likely pricey - seems it will compete in 718 and 911 price range) more details/proto-type reveal coming beginning of July

All mentioned are pretty much in the running for my next car. if the new M2 is anything like a combination of the drivers car/fun factor of the current gen, and the increased composure of the new m3/m4 (without gaining weight) they can take my money
The new Z does indeed look compelling. But call me spoiled, there is something unattractive about the idea of Nissan ownership experience. That company has a lot of shit to figure out. I actually view the BMW-ness of the Supra as a plus because I'd feel I'm essentially getting a BMW with possibly improved reliability.

Lotus is a fringe brand. It would take a real leap of faith to actually make such a purchase happen.
Agreed on Nissan ownership. Their cars strike me as poorly made relics. Hope they can turn it around though.

As far as the Supra goes, it being a BMW actually makes me nervous about the prospect of ownership. Mainly because Toyota dealers seem to have no idea how to work on them. There are plenty of stories of people being without their cars for days or weeks while Toyota goes back and forth with BMW trying to figure out how to work on a problem. It makes me feel like if I'm going down that route I might as well get an actual BMW so I can have a better service experience.
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      06-18-2021, 09:10 AM   #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom7835 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
What if it doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by deceptiv-cs View Post
Car looks a little bloated but hard to say without having it next to the F87. I think all the G series tech will inevitably make it heavier and since the m2 is usually some detuned version of the M3, one has to wonder if it'll handle the weight difference as well as the G80 M3 has.
Show me a time where a new generation was lighter than the previous generation
ND vs NC miata doesn't count
F30 less than E90, G29 lighter than E89, Range Rover L405 was 900lb lighter than the L322. That's 3 just off the top of my head.
Also part of the equation:
  • the G87 M2 is not built from scratch - it's based on a 'regular' series model (G42 2er), including a size increase compared to the F87 M2;
  • keeping the 6-cyl engine layout (S58 engine this time around);
  • regulations require car manufacturers to indicate more realistic weight figures;
  • also safety features evolve;
  • new tech gets added.
Needless to remind that BMW did quite some surgery on the E46 M3 to develop the E46 M3 CSL, shaving off 110 kg (1495 kg reduced to 1385 kg - and BMW M could have ventured further down the CSL rabbit hole by including a 6MT instead of an SMGII gearbox) (see for example here, here and here).


Always a pleasure to hear the CSL sing its airbox anth///M:


Apart from "matching the predecessor weight", also a word of caution about unrealistic weight reduction expectations - BMW M engineer Jürgen Schwenker in a Spring 2011 interview regarding the 1M (see here or here):
"Q: Would it not have been possible to reduce the weight of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé to closer to 1,400 kilos instead of the 1,570 kilos achieved? After all, a number of body parts had to be redeveloped anyway. What would have been the additional cost for the customer if the 1,400 kg target had been reached ?
A: It is unrealistic to expect a weight reduction of 170 kilos on an existing basic vehicle. The M3 CSL and M3 GTS show where the reasonable limits lie. It would be necessary to develop a completely new car from scratch – which would, of course, also mean a completely different price scale. We were determined to offer a real BMW M that would also allow newcomers to have some fun with the strongest letter in the world. That’s why we are choosing to go with intelligent lightweight construction methods, e.g. light wheels and specific avoidance of insulating mats. The chassis of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé also helps optimise weight. Both the two-joint front axle, as well as the five-link rear axle of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé are made almost completely from aluminium. Tubular stabilisers, axle guides made from forged aluminium and aluminium shock absorbers complete the lightweight concept for the wheel suspension. The weight of the BMW 1 Series M Coupé is precisely the same as that of the previous generation of the BMW M3, with comparable output and much higher torque. The vehicle weighs 1,495kg (DIN kerb weight) (with 90% full fuel tank without driver and luggage); the 1,570 kg specified are the EU standard weight (including 75 kg for driver and luggage)."
And then there is also the art of figures management that had to be adjusted because of new regulations, requiring car weight figures to be more realistic (no longer the weight figure of a stripped Porsche with PCCB, manual transmission and without airco, without SATNAV & radio, etc. to pull down the weight figure to the minimum level - a minimum weight configuration that only very few customers spec):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
On a general note, beware about official weight figures from the past: rules for car weight figures have been tightened. In the past most high performance car manufacturers perfected the art of listing the lowest weight possible with car configurations that almost no customer chose, for low weight bragging rights purposes. Regulations forced the car industry to indicate more realistic figures as regards car weight, fuel consumption, range and CO2 emissions.

For a good example, see here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Remember Andreas Preuninger recently trying to talk his way out in interviews when tackling the topic of the 80kg weight increase - on paper - of the 718 GT4 (2019) compared to the 981 GT4 (2015) (1420 kg vs 1340 kg), emphasizing that it's only about 30kg extra rather than 80kg extra.
See from 13:28 to 15:21 in this video (comparing spec sheets: "it's deceiving, deceiving").
Fair enough, but that implies that the 1340kg figure quoted by Porsche back in 2015 for the bare-bones 981 GT4 was actually not representative for GT4 cars sold 'in real life' and would be around 1390kg when weighed with nowadays standards.
Last June, in the Sport Auto interview, AP also disclosed that for 'delete' features "the take-rate is at maximum 2%": see from 12:51 to 13:25 in this video.
So though the 1340 kg figure may be technically true for the 981 GT4 and back then the car could have been ordered that way, but that won't be the usual GT4 sold 'in real life' back then.
Good thing that regulations force car manufacturers to provide figures (weight, fuel consumption, range, emissions) that are closer to 'real life'.
And so it's almost inevitable that the G87 M2 6MT weight figure will be higher - at least on paper - than the F87 M2 6MT weight figure (1495 kg) or M2C 6MT weight figure (1550 kg).

Rumor has it that in the early stages of F87 M2 development, BMW also looked into the option of using a reworked N20 engine (4-cyl) for the M2 (N20 Technical Training). A 4-banger would have saved weight and offered reduced emissions. But that did not materialize: in the end an N55 engine variant (6-cyl) was the powerhouse weapon of choice for the original F87 M2 presented late 2015:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
For the record and FWIW:
  • "Although work has commenced on the "Downsized" M, The M2 or the replacement for the most admired 1er M Coupe.
    It is known as the "Downsized" M because BMW M are investigating the concept of a completely reworked N20 based four cylinder in terms of the successor to the 1M offering the same recipe as before but with lower weight but still offering the entry to M ownership with the key of precision rather than outright power."

    (http://www.f30post.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=23 - July 2012)
  • "BMW M2 Coupe - Successor to the BMW 1 Series M Coupe continues the same formula that made the last car be memorable, no huge competitor in the HP race, four cylinder will bring less weight, which matter most as does more enjoyment and overall feel is considered to be more of a priority than who has the biggest numbers. Already confirmed to be coming by BMW CEO.
    BMW M2 Gran Coupe - Baby Coupe inherits a four door brother and RWD, Direct competitor to the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG. Scott26 shares that there are now firm plans for an M2 Gran Coupe."

    (http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showp...28&postcount=1 - March 2013)
  • "Drop two cylinders of the Autoexpress article [i.e. 4-cyl. instead of 6-cyl.].
    BMW want the fastest four cylinder car in its segment. They also want the M2 to be the most progressive and dynamic car in its segment as well as the lightest performance car. They want a car that has a soul, unlike the Mercedes-Benz AMG A45/CLA 45 which are soulless to drive."
    (http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showp...77&postcount=3 - January 2014)
  • "It looks as if they are investigating a more hardcore M2 having seen one at a test track, mixing aerodynamics of the Vision GT and the Racing but identifiable as the M2 but far more muscular and brutal than the standard M2. It could be for racing purpose showcase but I like to think of it as a potential rival to the Porsche Cayman GT4 and the first modern BMW "Batmobile" since the E9."
    (http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=45 - February 2015)
From 6-cyl to 4-cyl: Porsche gave it a shot with the 718 Cayman flat-4, but understood from the feedback that also 'sound' is an important factor contributing to the driving experience with a high-performance car. And so Porsche re-introduced the 6-cyl to claw back (718 GT4, 718 Spyder and 718 GTS 4.0).

For some 718 flat-4 lawnmower noise: 00:00-00:20 and 02:07-06:27:
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      06-18-2021, 10:55 AM   #763
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Agreed on Nissan ownership. Their cars strike me as poorly made relics. Hope they can turn it around though.
I agree with this for the majority of Nissans we see on the road, but unlike those cars the Z (also GTR, and other JDM "luxury" cars) is produced in the Tochigi plant. My Z33 and Z34 were considerably more reliable than my E92, but given the issues that come along with owning an N54 that's probably not saying much and rather unsurprising
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      06-18-2021, 12:03 PM   #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
What if it doesn't?
Don't worry, there will be 2381 other things for people to complain about, and why they are moving to Porsche or how the F87 is the last "true" M
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      06-18-2021, 12:14 PM   #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
F30 less than E90, G29 lighter than E89, Range Rover L405 was 900lb lighter than the L322. That's 3 just off the top of my head.
Are you sure with F30 over E90?
On paper maybe ... not in reality.
Different story with F8x vs E9x. Although the weight decrease was minimal opposed to official data! If you compared F82 without CCB vs M3 Coupe the delta in real world measurement was around 20kg.
Yes. They weigh about the same. My E92 weighs less than my F80. People keep repeating this because of BMW's manipulative F8X marketing.
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      06-18-2021, 05:54 PM   #766
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Looks like more G87 @ about 13:25 & 15:25:
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      06-19-2021, 12:52 AM   #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWM3 View Post
Yes. They weigh about the same. My E92 weighs less than my F80. People keep repeating this because of BMW's manipulative F8X marketing.
My '11 e92 DCT M3 was approx 3600 lbs
My '17 F87 DCT M2 was approx (didnt weight it)
My '19 F87 DCT M2C is approx 3600 lbs


If I lose 20lbs, that is the best outcome.
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      06-19-2021, 03:50 AM   #768
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I'd estimate about 1600kg for the G87 and that would be a good outcome with further safety and tech added.

Front and rear flares are looking amazing here.
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      06-20-2021, 04:04 AM   #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Looks like the big front flares will hopefully eliminate that understeer the M2 is famous for. The most frustrating thing I ever experienced.
lol your comments crack me up.

Based on your previous comments in this thread, you have some bad taste in your mouth for the F87 due to 2 possible reasons:

1) you owned a lemon
2) you have bad taste in general
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      06-20-2021, 06:48 AM   #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Looks like the big front flares will hopefully eliminate that understeer the M2 is famous for. The most frustrating thing I ever experienced.

What ARE you talking about? Understeer is not something associated with the F8x series M cars.

Can't take comments like this seriously
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