Crypto Investment for long term

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Out of curiosity, and I’m asking this question for all the non-believers… and I’m asking for real….What is the benchmark you would use to eventually determine that Bitcoin is not a tulip bulb, magic seed or a piece of paper cut into 15 parts?

Is the benchmark worldwide adoption? Wall St.? Main St.? $100,000 BTC? $500,000 BTC?

Who or what would trigger your reframe of Bitcoin as a worthless money scam to a legitimate asset? What would make you rethink it?

My original post was in jest. But for me personally, try as I might, I have not been able to understand the value of bitcoin. I have watched many hours of the Michael Saylors of the world wax poetic about its virtues, and, while I dont disagree with many of the flaws they point out in the global monetary system, I still cant see any value in this digital "asset". As imperfect as the fiat system may be, currency is still backed by a government/nation and has centuries of culturally ingrained association (i.e. "the value of a dollar"). But what about a store of value like gold you might say? Well, gold is a physical asset with utility. It is a tangible object with use. Bitcoin is not tangible and has no utility.

I am not denying that many people have made a lot of money in bitcoin, including several people I know well. Their doom and gloom outlook on the world further bolsters their belief in Bitcoin as they are expecting some type of economic and societal collapse resulting from the current monetary policies of the world...but I choose to be happier and more optimisitic That is nother discussion though...

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Out of curiosity, and I’m asking this question for all the non-believers… and I’m asking for real….What is the benchmark you would use to eventually determine that Bitcoin is not a tulip bulb, magic seed or a piece of paper cut into 15 parts?

Is the benchmark worldwide adoption? Wall St.? Main St.? $100,000 BTC? $500,000 BTC?

Who or what would trigger your reframe of Bitcoin as a worthless money scam to a legitimate asset? What would make you rethink it?

Originally Posted by tom2021

How is El Salvador doing after adopting BTC as their currency?

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

"El Salvador's #Bitcoin investments are in the black!

After literally thousands of articles and hit pieces that ridiculed our supposed losses, all of which were calculated based on #Bitcoin’s market price at the time...

With the current #Bitcoin market price, if we were to sell… pic.twitter.com/gvl2GfQMfb
— Nayib Bukele (@nayibbukele) December 4, 2023"

"At the time of writing, El Salvador *(Gov't)* has purchased 2,770 BTC in total at an average price of $42,436.22 per coin for a portfolio cost of $117.5 million, according to the “Nayib Bukele Portfolio Tracker,” which follows the changes in El Salvador’s Bitcoin stash.

It was running an overall profit of $4.16 million — up 3.54% — as recently as Dec. 9, when BTC was selling for about $44,000. Bukele’s first bulk BTC purchase was made on Sept. 6, 2021; his last was on Nov. 18, 2022, s"



So, as of Dec 3, 2022 they were up 3.5%. at BTC = $42,436.
Today BTC is at $47000. El Salvador has 2770BTC.
Back of envelop math, $47,000 subtract $42,436 = $4564 increase per BTC multiplied by 2770btc... They are up another $12,642,280.

I may not have understood the questions, I'd like to think I did though.

No coin will be legitimate in my mind until it is a full fledged currency. As I said earlier, that equates to a private citizen being able to walk into any store and buy everyday goods with it.



Now lets just say that is the case in El Salvador (I don't believe it is right now), but for S&G I'll play along. So 4 months ago when Mr. El bought milk for his family it cost 0.00007BTC (lets call it $2.50 equivalent, made up number). He has 0.000100BTC total.
Now today he went to buy milk again. It still costs 0.00007BTC but this time the US dollar equivalence is $3.75.

And here we sit in the US bitching constantly about inflation.
You do understand this, correct?

[Monkey Throttle]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

I may not have understood the questions, I'd like to think I did though.

No coin will be legitimate in my mind until it is a full fledged currency. As I said earlier, that equates to a private citizen being able to walk into any store and buy everyday goods with it.



Now lets just say that is the case in El Salvador (I don't believe it is right now), but for S&G I'll play along. So 4 months ago when Mr. El bought milk for his family it cost 0.00007BTC (lets call it $2.50 equivalent, made up number). He has 0.000100BTC total.
Now today he went to buy milk again. It still costs 0.00007BTC but this time the US dollar equivalence is $3.75.

And here we sit in the US bitching constantly about inflation.
You do understand this, correct?

It’s an interesting point. I think the counterpoint I would try to make (though I’m not an economist) is that if you were trying to buy said milk in a country with hyperinflation than those factors would need to be weighed against your example against the USD.

In Argentina I believe their Peso has lost 80% of its spending power so putting their money into BTC is a way to preserve their wealth and not have that mill cost the equivalent of what it used to cost to buy the entire cow.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Very legitimate response. And while I could see or understand a world where Bitcoin no longer exists that doesn’t seem to be the case now.
At the moment, the upside rewards would seem to far outweigh the downside risk.
Institutional wealth is about to flow in. Any day now Gensler and the SEC will approve the ETF and the flood gates will open. Today BTC went from $42k to $47k in a couple of hours with just the anticipation of a ETF approval.

Every halving has produced a 10x result within 12-18 months. So compound that with the spot ETF and it seems like the fuel we’ve all been waiting for to bring us to the next 10x.

Look at the charts of Bitcoin. Yeah they crash. It has to crash to be able to grow the way it does. But long term it’s up and to the right and up and to the right.
It only becomes more normalized and standardized.

It will crash again. And it will go to all time highs again. But the highs always get higher and the lows are also higher.
$16k wasn’t a bad value considering it came up from $3k.

My takeaway then is all I need to do is buy BTC, wait a not terribly long length of time, and, while I wait, productively spend my time figuring out what I'm going to do with the tens of millions of dollars I'll soon have. Am I in the ballpark here?

[Monkey Throttle]

Originally Posted by dradernh

My takeaway then is all I need to do is buy BTC, wait a not terribly long length of time, and, while I wait, productively spend my time figuring out what I'm going to do with the tens of millions of dollars I'll soon have. Am I in the ballpark here?

Well, If you bought $10,000 worth of Bitcoin when it was at $300 you’d have 33.33BTC. At $47k that BTC would now be worth $1.56m.
There is reasonable case that BTC will 10x again making that $10k investment worth $15m in less than 12 years.

So yeah. You’re just a little late. But BTC is still fairly new so who knows.

I’m gonna buy a 992 GT3RS. What are you gonna get? 😉

[tom2021]

I was surprised to find there are bitcoin ATMs.
I never use it though.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Well, If you bought $10,000 worth of Bitcoin when it was at $300 you’d have 33.33BTC. At $47k that BTC would now be worth $1.56m.
There is reasonable case that BTC will 10x again making that $10k investment worth $15m in less than 12 years.

So yeah. You’re just a little late. But BTC is still fairly new so who knows.

I’m gonna buy a 992 GT3RS. What are you gonna get? ��

Wow, a 992 GT3RS – I've never been in one of those before. Well, yes I have, but I wasn't the owner, so...you know. Don't forget to post a photo with you standing next to it once you've taken possession, okay?

Now I'm willing to admit I've come in late to the program, but how – specifically – can I be guaranteed that I too can get my own GT3RS without really working for it?

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by tom2021

I was surprised to find there are bitcoin ATMs.
I never use it though.

Up here, I seen those at Kwip Trips. I don't know if it was all them, but he handful I'd been to had them. But they are all gone now. I don't know how long they where in stores, maybe a full year? It wasn't real long.

*edit*
Looks like it was mid July 2023 when they removed them. So about a year they lasted.

https://csnews.com/kwik-trip-rolls-o...atms-chainwide

[Monkey Throttle]

Well, that was an interesting hour... Approved. Not approved. Hacked. Not hacked??!?!?

what in tarnation.

[Monkey Throttle]

BTC Supply in Profit Nears 90% as Price Rallies on Expected Bitcoin ETF Approval

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/202...aign=headlines

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

BTC Supply in Profit Nears 90% as Price Rallies on Expected Bitcoin ETF Approval

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/202...aign=headlines

"Statement on the Approval of Spot Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Products"
SEC - Jan 10, 2024
https://www.sec.gov/news/statement/g...bitcoin-011023

In the first paragraphs of its statement, the SEC explicitly refers to legal action as part of the equation for its decision-making:

"Circumstances, however, have changed. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia held that the Commission failed to adequately explain its reasoning in disapproving the listing and trading of Grayscale’s proposed ETP (the Grayscale Order). The court therefore vacated the Grayscale Order and remanded the matter to the Commission. Based on these circumstances and those discussed more fully in the approval order, I feel the most sustainable path forward is to approve the listing and trading of these spot bitcoin ETP shares."

And ends its statement as follows:

"Though we’re merit neutral, I’d note that the underlying assets in the metals ETPs have consumer and industrial uses, while in contrast bitcoin is primarily a speculative, volatile asset that’s also used for illicit activity including ransomware, money laundering, sanction evasion, and terrorist financing.
While we approved the listing and trading of certain spot bitcoin ETP shares today, we did not approve or endorse bitcoin. Investors should remain cautious about the myriad risks associated with bitcoin and products whose value is tied to crypto."

[Monkey Throttle]

Originally Posted by Artemis

"Statement on the Approval of Spot Bitcoin Exchange-Traded Products"
SEC - Jan 10, 2024
https://www.sec.gov/news/statement/g...bitcoin-011023

In the first paragraphs of its statement, the SEC explicitly refers to legal action as part of the equation for its decision-making:

"Circumstances, however, have changed. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia held that the Commission failed to adequately explain its reasoning in disapproving the listing and trading of Grayscale’s proposed ETP (the Grayscale Order). The court therefore vacated the Grayscale Order and remanded the matter to the Commission. Based on these circumstances and those discussed more fully in the approval order, I feel the most sustainable path forward is to approve the listing and trading of these spot bitcoin ETP shares."

And ends its statement as follows:

"Though we’re merit neutral, I’d note that the underlying assets in the metals ETPs have consumer and industrial uses, while in contrast bitcoin is primarily a speculative, volatile asset that’s also used for illicit activity including ransomware, money laundering, sanction evasion, and terrorist financing.
While we approved the listing and trading of certain spot bitcoin ETP shares today, we did not approve or endorse bitcoin. Investors should remain cautious about the myriad risks associated with bitcoin and products whose value is tied to crypto."

Those of us following BTC are very familiar with Greyscale lawsuit. Basically the SEC denied approval of the Greyscale trust to convert to BTC for unfounded reasons. The SEC declined to appeal the decision because they could not come up with a valid reason to deny it again. It was a personal bias.
Recently the 5 member board of the SEC voted on the ETF and it was a 3-2 decision to approve.

So, it was largely the loss of the lawsuit of Greyscale and the loss of the SEC vs XRP lawsuit that pressured Gensler and the SEC to have to approve a Spot ETF for Bitcoin. The SEC kept losing. And once Blackstone decided they wanted the Spot ETF it was game over. Just a matter of time. And here we are

Go Bitcoin!!!

[TXSTYLE]

I will just leave this here...

[bagekko]

If you think bitcoin is near a peak and going to go back down, BITI is a bitcoin short ETF. All this money flowing into the "official" ETFs can't last forever and keep driving the price up. I am so curious where this $50B that has gone into the ETFs has come from, I really hope its not suckers putting a large chunk of their retirement into it.

Next is Grayscale getting "official" ETFs approved Ethereum, then that can explode. ETHE is the "unofficial" ETF.

[medphysdave]

It's an interesting time. I'm curious if we are approaching the event where crypto diverges from the regular market and large institutions are shifting money ahead of the transition.

[Our03z4]

Well all I know is that I'm happy right now. I'm up over 150% on Bitcoin. All of my investments are up substantially. I'm hoping the price comes back down on BC at some point so I can buy some more.

[bagekko]

I am also not complaining, sold it all today though, didn't want to miss the opportunity. If it falls to $50k might get back in, but as long as it's above 60k I will slowly be adding to the short position, dreaming of a 5-10x return. Would love for it to drop to 40k if the ETF inflows significantly slow.

Originally Posted by Our03z4

Well all I know is that I'm happy right now. I'm up over 150% on Bitcoin. All of my investments are up substantially. I'm hoping the price comes back down on BC at some point so I can buy some more.

[Our03z4]

Originally Posted by bagekko

I am also not complaining, sold it all today though, didn't want to miss the opportunity. If it falls to $50k might get back in, but as long as it's above 60k I will slowly be adding to the short position, dreaming of a 5-10x return. Would love for it to drop to 40k if the ETF inflows significantly slow.

Congrats on the win! What point did you buy in? I have an avg of around $26k. Haven't bought any since it went up more than that. Should have caught a few dips but was adding heavier to my dividend portfolios.

I have 30 years until retirement so I'm going to let it ride. Also I don't want any increased shown income, going to keep the gains unrealized for now. Rather take the wins when we retire or in a financial down year.

[bagekko]

It was in the unofficial BITO ETF, Started in Sept 2021 just to make a quick buck kept buying as it went up, got greedy and didn't take the gains, kept buying on the downswing Dec 21-May 22, decided wasn't gonna dump anymore into it, losses were so big couldn't bear the wifes wrath to risk anymore. Almost 2yrs since then to recover and return a decent profit thanks to the monthly dividends the fund pays out. Good thing cause the wife never believed me that it would eventually recover.

Originally Posted by Our03z4

Congrats on the win! What point did you buy in? I have an avg of around $26k. Haven't bought any since it went up more than that. Should have caught a few dips but was adding heavier to my dividend portfolios.

I have 30 years until retirement so I'm going to let it ride. Also I don't want any increased shown income, going to keep the gains unrealized for now. Rather take the wins when we retire or in a financial down year.

[Our03z4]

Originally Posted by bagekko

It was in the unofficial BITO ETF, Started in Sept 2021 just to make a quick buck kept buying as it went up, got greedy and didn't take the gains, kept buying on the downswing Dec 21-May 22, decided wasn't gonna dump anymore into it, losses were so big couldn't bear the wifes wrath to risk anymore. Almost 2yrs since then to recover and return a decent profit thanks to the monthly dividends the fund pays out. Good thing cause the wife never believed me that it would eventually recover.

lol oh no! Well my wife was questioning me buying ours but now she's wishing I had put more in. Darned if you do darned if you don't.

[bagekko]

So true. I was massively burned in the dotcom market bust, which I knew would happen, but when the markets are shooting up it's hard to walk away and when it begins to drop you hope "today" is the bottom. Which regardless what BTC does over the next few weeks, I was ok walking away today. Perhaps it will hit 70k, but I will lightly add to the short as don't think its sustainable.

Originally Posted by Our03z4

lol oh no! Well my wife was questioning me buying ours but now she's wishing I had put more in. Darned if you do darned if you don't.

[Donut Lord]

Since this is a Crypto thread, I thought this best spot to get some advice in both the crypto and car spaces.

I am thinking about offering free Carfax's and Autochecks on the forum, but for my time (reading/answering/downloading/replying/etc.) requesting like a "tip" via crypto as a sort of barrier to entry, else I would probably be responding to 1000 messages a day.

I am thinking requiring like $1 or whatever the minimum would actually arrive in my respective crypto wallets.

Not trying to skirt any forum rules, really just trying to create a barrier to entry to control demand and get compensated <$1 for my effort. Thoughts?