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      05-15-2013, 02:40 PM   #1
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Manhart Racing BMW M6 vs: 911 Turbo PDK, MTM RS6, 430 Scuderia, 458 Italia 23. May

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GT Board races May 2013

UPDATE MAY 23rd - Race with 458 Italia

Porsche 911 Turbo PDK (500hp but 300kg lighter than the M6)



Audi RS6 MTM with 740hp





Ferrari 430 Scuderia



Compare it with this race between the 430 Scuderia and the M3 ESS VT-625 decat (see the second race - the Ferrari started in 3rd gear in the first race instead of in 2nd):



The ESS M3 has 625hp and weighs 250-300kg less than the MHR M6. In my book that means the MHR M6 has to have some decent power to leave the 430 behind...

Ferrari 458 Italia



458 = 570HP on 1430 KG which means 2,5KG per HP

M6 = 700HP on 1925KG which means 2.75KG per HP

Last edited by Boss330; 05-23-2013 at 02:41 AM.
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      05-15-2013, 03:03 PM   #2
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Compare with this stock M6 vs Porsche 911 Turbo...

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      05-15-2013, 10:14 PM   #3
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Very nice! Big difference. How much is the manhart tune?
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      05-16-2013, 02:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter5179 View Post
Very nice! Big difference. How much is the manhart tune?
It's a stage IV with 700+HP

Contact Manhart Racing for prices etc.

http://www.manhart-racing.de/english/
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      05-16-2013, 03:36 AM   #5
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Awesome Manhart cars! Question though, 700hp, NO wheel spin 2nd? Hmmm??? You guys sure this was a 700hp m6? Seen a 600hp M6 and when you put foot it wheelspins..
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      05-16-2013, 03:56 AM   #6
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it's 911 Turbo vs. Manhart M6 and 911 Turbo S! vs stock M6! So no wonder of this big difference.
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      05-16-2013, 07:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aweso///Me View Post
it's 911 Turbo vs. Manhart M6 and 911 Turbo S! vs stock M6! So no wonder of this big difference.
I don't think those 30 extra horsepower in the S makes that much difference...

It didn't in this race anyway

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      05-16-2013, 07:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerM6 View Post
Awesome Manhart cars! Question though, 700hp, NO wheel spin 2nd? Hmmm??? You guys sure this was a 700hp m6? Seen a 600hp M6 and when you put foot it wheelspins..
MHR's stage IV tune has been widely debated over on the M5 forums. MHR has provided dyno charts, Vbox results and logs. It's probably one of the best documented tunes for the M5/M6 at the moment.

MHR's own MH5S has made 645 RWHP and a customers M5 made 660 RWHP

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=830347

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/f10...s-645rwhp.html
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      05-16-2013, 12:29 PM   #9
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that doesnt look like 700 hp...

911 turbo S 0-300 kmh 36-38 secs
m6 with 700hp and 80-250 in 14 secs, (according to manhardt) shoult be
0-300 in about 28-30secs at least...
the difference must by way bigger supposing 1 sec at around 250 kmh is about 8-10 car lenth, so i just would have expect a mutch bigger gap in favour of the tuned m6...
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      05-16-2013, 02:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
that doesnt look like 700 hp...

911 turbo S 0-300 kmh 36-38 secs
m6 with 700hp and 80-250 in 14 secs, (according to manhardt) shoult be
0-300 in about 28-30secs at least...
the difference must by way bigger supposing 1 sec at around 250 kmh is about 8-10 car lenth, so i just would have expect a mutch bigger gap in favour of the tuned m6...
I remember you had a lot of suspicion on all the claims made by Manhart, even implying that they timed their car on a downhill run... Not surprised that you don't believe it's 700hp in this car either

If you compare with video of the stock M6 vs 911 Turbo you can see that the MHR must have substantially more power than the stock M6.

The 911 weighs roughly 300kg less than the M6, giving it an easy advantage from the start. Remember that it does 0-100 in just around 3sec according to motoring magazine tests.

The MHR only looses a couple of car lengths in the start and then regains that and overtakes the Porsche. Compare that with the stock M6 vs 911 Turbo. How many car lengths does the M6 loose? A LOT

The difference between the stock M6 and the MHR is just amazing in those two runs. And that the MHR M6 keeps up with the 911 and OVERTAKES it is really impressive when you see how the stock M6 is destroyed by the 911 Turbo.

Doesn't matter what you believe, the MHR overtakes the 911. The stock M6 is left in the 911's dust. That is enough evidence for me that the MHR has SUBSTANTIALLY more power than the stock M6.

BTW: 250km/h is 69,4m/s, so 1 second at 250km/h equals to a distance travelled of 69,4m

And I have read that the 911 Turbo PDK takes 41,9s from 0-300km/h

You can't just compare two cars that has a weight difference of roughly 300kg and say that the M6 should be ahead by so many car lengths. The M6 will allways loose from the start due to it's weight and traction disadvantage and then needs the extra power to regain that distance lost at the start before it can overtake. Again just look at how the stock M6 is destroyed by the 911 and then compare that with how the MHR car doesn't loose that much and quickly regains and overtakes.

Last edited by Boss330; 05-20-2013 at 03:38 AM. Reason: Corrected weigth difference
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      05-17-2013, 04:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
that doesnt look like 700 hp...

911 turbo S 0-300 kmh 36-38 secs
m6 with 700hp and 80-250 in 14 secs, (according to manhardt) shoult be
0-300 in about 28-30secs at least...
the difference must by way bigger supposing 1 sec at around 250 kmh is about 8-10 car lenth, so i just would have expect a mutch bigger gap in favour of the tuned m6...
And, the MHR M6 didn't just race the Porsche...

I have heard that it was up against Audi RS6 MTM with 740hp, Ferrari 430 Scuderia and 458 Italia. Those races will be posted on GT Board.com later.

If it runs close, or equal, with the MTM RS6 with 740hp, then you would agree that it has around 700hp, or...???

Not to mention if it beats the Audi...
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      05-17-2013, 08:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
And, the MHR M6 didn't just race the Porsche...

I have heard that it was up against Audi RS6 MTM with 740hp, Ferrari 430 Scuderia and 458 Italia. Those races will be posted on GT Board.com later.

If it runs close, or equal, with the MTM RS6 with 740hp, then you would agree that it has around 700hp, or...???

Not to mention if it beats the Audi...
Stock M6 f12 vs Mtm rs6 702 hp is a draw
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TGZfC3KlM4c

So the so called manhard 700 hp should fly away...

Last edited by m-ch; 05-17-2013 at 09:22 AM.
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      05-17-2013, 09:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
I remember you had a lot of suspicion on all the claims made by Manhart, even implying that they timed their car on a downhill run... Not surprised that you don't believe it's 700hp in this car either

If you compare with video of the stock M6 vs 911 Turbo you can see that the MHR must have substantially more power than the stock M6.

The 911 weighs roughly 500kg less than the M6, giving it an easy advantage from the start. Remember that it does 0-100 in just around 3sec according to motoring magazine tests.

The MHR only looses a couple of car lengths in the start and then regains that and overtakes the Porsche. Compare that with the stock M6 vs 911 Turbo. How many car lengths does the M6 loose? A LOT

The difference between the stock M6 and the MHR is just amazing in those two runs. And that the MHR M6 keeps up with the 911 and OVERTAKES it is really impressive when you see how the stock M6 is destroyed by the 911 Turbo.

Doesn't matter what you believe, the MHR overtakes the 911. The stock M6 is left in the 911's dust. That is enough evidence for me that the MHR has SUBSTANTIALLY more power than the stock M6.

BTW: 250km/h is 69,4m/s, so 1 second at 250km/h equals to a distance travelled of 69,4m

And I have read that the 911 Turbo PDK takes 41,9s from 0-300km/h

You can't just compare two cars that has a weight difference of roughly 500kg and say that the M6 should be ahead by so many car lengths. The M6 will allways loose from the start due to it's weight and traction disadvantage and then needs the extra power to regain that distance lost at the start before it can overtake. Again just look at how the stock M6 is destroyed by the 911 and then compare that with how the MHR car doesn't loose that much and quickly regains and overtakes.
It is a matter of fact that a 700 hp Car Must be mutch faster than the 500 hp turbo
Weight doesnt matters after 150 km/h or more for highspeed runs, we have the drag and the gearing witch can have an impact on the highspeed acceleration(Let alone the power, cooling etc)
My 680hp Gt2 does 100-300 in just a bit below 20 secs (so 0-300 kmh in around 23 secs) and is definitly fly by a regular 911 Turbo/s pdk in a different way the so called 700 hp M6

I assume this M6 is about a speed of 220 km/h to pass the 911 turbo, if not later Stock turbo 100-200 kmh is about 7.5 secs and this M6 should be at least on 6.5 secs for 100-200 kmh with 700 hp..

Yes i am still very sceptical about Manhard, you should check m-forum.de and read there about the seperation from GŁnther Manhardt (now Mantec) and manhardt Racing wuppertal. Funny Information Turn up...
IF you are happy with your tune it is perfect, it just doesnt look to serieus to many people i know, including me in the german part. I definitly woudnt bring my m5 f10 to there facilitiys.
IF you advertise your product in sutch an offensive way trough the internet and social medias, one shouldnt complain about sceptical questions- even more if the result, video 911 turbo vs M6 700hp, leavse a lot rum for speculation where the 200 extra hp from the M6 over the regular Turbo are. And as you can see there are other member asking thereself the very same questio
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      05-17-2013, 09:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
GT Board race May 2013

Do you really call this result " leave him in the dust" 2 car lenghts at 250-270 km/h. ( top speed is just my guess on previus airfild events) (video at 50 secs)

Maybee i do have an other understanding what 700 hp does, when installed/cooled and geared properly.
By the way i have the feeling that the 5 th gear is too long on our cars, same goes for 6 and 7th gear (7th up to 400kmh+)
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      05-17-2013, 10:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
Do you really call this result " leave him in the dust" 2 car lenghts at 250-270 km/h. ( top speed is just my guess on previus airfild events) (video at 50 secs)

Maybee i do have an other understanding what 700 hp does, when installed/cooled and geared properly.
By the way i have the feeling that the 5 th gear is too long on our cars, same goes for 6 and 7th gear (7th up to 400kmh+)
I did NOT say that the MHR M6 left the 911 in the dust. If you care to read my post you will see that I said that the 911 leaves the stock M6 in the dust...

Two very different propositions alltogether
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      05-17-2013, 10:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
Stock M6 f12 vs Mtm rs6 702 hp is a draw
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TGZfC3KlM4c

So the so called manhard 700 hp should fly away...
Well, you just have to wait for the videos then

And I believe that the M6 in that video is a press car with 620hp
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      05-17-2013, 03:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Well, you just have to wait for the videos then

And I believe that the M6 in that video is a press car with 620hp
That could be true, cant judge it as i do not have any Infos. But customer m5 f10 messured as well 620 hp on the maha lps 3000 dyno here in Germany.
But then again the truth is on the street and not on the dyno..

So lets hope he flew away from the 740 hp rs6. Any video of a tuned 5.5 Liter amg biturbo vs the M6....
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      05-18-2013, 02:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
That could be true, cant judge it as i do not have any Infos. But customer m5 f10 messured as well 620 hp on the maha lps 3000 dyno here in Germany.
But then again the truth is on the street and not on the dyno..

So lets hope he flew away from the 740 hp rs6. Any video of a tuned 5.5 Liter amg biturbo vs the M6....
You will be sooooo suprised!
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      05-18-2013, 04:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon_MHR View Post
You will be sooooo suprised!
looking forward. I dont see any competition of the rs6 c6 (tuned) but i hope we will see videos vers the 5,5 liter amg biturbo, as it looks like those cares are very capable of tuning and puting down there power on the streets.
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      05-18-2013, 11:49 AM   #20
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^^^^ no need to wait.
Manhart m6 700hp vs Audi mtm 700hp plus on Gtboard was ugly for Audi. That is all I'm going to say

The scary part is Manhart car without exterior mods looks like any other normal M6 on the road. I think BMW has just opened Pandora's box with turbos.


.

Last edited by Falcao; 05-18-2013 at 12:18 PM.
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      05-18-2013, 03:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
That could be true, cant judge it as i do not have any Infos. But customer m5 f10 messured as well 620 hp on the maha lps 3000 dyno here in Germany.
But then again the truth is on the street and not on the dyno..

So lets hope he flew away from the 740 hp rs6. Any video of a tuned 5.5 Liter amg biturbo vs the M6....
I'll let the videos speak for themselves



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      05-18-2013, 04:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
It is a matter of fact that a 700 hp Car Must be mutch faster than the 500 hp turbo
Weight doesnt matters after 150 km/h or more for highspeed runs, we have the drag and the gearing witch can have an impact on the highspeed acceleration(Let alone the power, cooling etc)
Which acceleration formula are you using that eliminates the mass of the body that is accelerated after it exceeds 150km/h???

The rest of us relies on Newtons second law that says that acceleration is a product of Force divided on the mass of the body being accelerated.

a=F/m

Sure you have increased aerodynamic drag at higher speeds, but that "only" represents a negative force (F) in the opposite direction of the acceleration force and therefore equates to a smaller F in the equation as speed increases (that's why a car will accelerate less rapidly as speed increases - Ftotal = Facceleration - Fdrag). But regardless of speed, the mass of the accelerated body is still a vital factor, in fact the only factor that F is to be divided by...

Let's for arguments sake say that two cars have the exact same aerodynamic drag, horsepower, transmission etc, but that one weighs 1000kg and the other 2000kg.

Would you still say that both cars will accelerate just as quickly from 150-250km/h (since in your opinion weight doesn't matter after 150km/h)?

You wrote that it's a "matter of fact" that a 700hp car must be much quicker than a 500hp car and that weight does not play a part in this matter after 150km/h

Looking forward to the explanation of your alternative physical principle of acceleration

PS.
The Porsche has a power to weight ratio of roughly 0,33hp/kg and the MHR M6 has roughly 0,35hp/kg. If you consider that mass actually is a vital factor in acceleration (regardless of speed), you will see that the very similar power to weight ratio for the two cars also explain why they are so close (even though one has 200hp more). In fact, that the MHR accelerates away from the Porsche indicates; The MHR M6 has even more than 700hp, or better aerodynamics than the Porsche, or a combination of both (since both have double clutch manual transmissions I have not discussed differences in transmission losses etc here). If aerodynamics etc. are similar between the two cars, the MHR has to have a better power to weight ratio to outaccelerate the Porsche... (unless we are not to believe in the HP claim of the Porsche either?).

Last edited by Boss330; 05-18-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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