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      07-16-2019, 03:13 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Here ya go, this was the worst period as it was directly during ReOrg.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...53345/d10k.htm

You will notice that with exception of one year where NI was positive, DDA offset the NOL by just about 100%.

As such, when comparing EBIT to EBITDA, the company would have moved from a net loss to a net income position, solely based on depreciation, depletion, and amortization expense.
Actually, that doesn't appear to cover the correct period (1985-1994)
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      07-16-2019, 03:19 PM   #68
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If the only reason there is a cry for Trump's tax returns is to show he wasn't so successful , i have two words - Big deal. I don't care much for real estate developers successful or not as all they do is take down trees, create congestion and make room for people from other areas to move in to where I am.

Who was our last big private success story turned president? Anyone know or give a crap?
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      07-16-2019, 03:24 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
If the only reason there is a cry for Trump's tax returns is to show he wasn't so successful , i have two words - Big deal. I don't care much for real estate developers successful or not as all they do is take down trees, create congestion and make room for people from other areas to move in to where I am.

Who was our last big private success story turned president? Anyone know or give a crap?
Yeah, we've already established that trump supporters don't care about his failures and failings. (not saying you're a supporter, i don't know)

Who was our last big private success story turned president? I sincerely mean no offense here, but I really don't give a crap about that. I am more concerned about success in office - and I'm guessing - I don't know for sure - but I'm guessing that we may have different ideas about what "success" means.

Last edited by cjb762; 07-16-2019 at 03:39 PM..
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      07-16-2019, 03:27 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
Who loses $100million a year in depreciation?
1) You don't "lose" depreciation. It is an accrual based accounting concept. Just because I write down a depreciating asset doesn't mean I actually lost any money. As I reduce the debit balance of an asset over time by crediting the item, I have to offset that entry with a corresponding debit to another account, which in the case of DDA, would be a depreciation expense account hitting the P&L. As such, I have a CR to the Balance Sheet and a DR to the P&L.

2) DDA has many variances. Just as an example, our projected DDA for this year will likely be around a quarter billion dollars. We didn't 'lose' that money. This is just on paper.

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      07-16-2019, 03:28 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
Actually, that doesn't appear to cover the correct period (1985-1994)
If you could find me a 10-K that covers a 9 year period, I will wipe my ass with my CPA license.
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      07-16-2019, 03:34 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
Who loses $100million a year in depreciation?
people with a lot of depreciable assets.

Based on a forbes article, they estimated trumps properties made up a net market value of 3.7 billion. 100 million of 3.7 billion is 2.7%

per the IRS, residential rental properties depreciate up to 3.6% and commercial properties up to 2.56%

a 2.7% depreciation rate, combined with many other expenses that can be counted as losses, makes up for a huge chunk of that 1.2 billion in losses over a decade.

"Using the list of properties contained in that document and updating it, we come up with properties that we think have a market value of slightly less than $3.7 billion" - https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalex.../#1714604b33d9


for a reference, the current company im working with claims nearly 4% in depreciation and amortization compared to assets, the last company i was with was in the 3.5% range, and the one before that was in the 2% range, but had significantly less property/equipment.
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      07-16-2019, 03:34 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
If you could find me a 10-K that covers a 9 year period, I will wipe my ass with my CPA license.
Sorry man, I'm not in the 10-K finding business.
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      07-16-2019, 03:55 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
Sorry man, I'm not in the 10-K finding business.
Then feel free to shut the F up about the documentation I provided.

You stated that you would believe what was published unless someone provided contrary evidence. I provided contrary evidence and you then proceeded to say that it wasn't covering a period of nearly a decade, which no financial statements do. So because I didn't provide you with evidence that goes against basic accounting principles (in other words, false evidence), you complain?

Gotcha. You keep believing the world is flat, irrespective of evidence suggesting otherwise. Rational people with common sense will hang out over here.

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      07-16-2019, 03:55 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
If the only reason there is a cry for Trump's tax returns is to show he wasn't so successful , i have two words - Big deal. I don't care much for real estate developers successful or not as all they do is take down trees, create congestion and make room for people from other areas to move in to where I am.

Who was our last big private success story turned president? Anyone know or give a crap?
Do you want a self-made man, who has made billions, to be your president? I believe Bloomberg for Cuban would be better choices. You may not like their politics, but you can't argue they have made their own money, without their father's extensive $400 million help
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      07-16-2019, 04:11 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
Do you want a self-made man, who has made billions, to be your president? I believe Bloomberg for Cuban would be better choices. You may not like their politics, but you can't argue they have made their own money, without their father's extensive $400 million help
Cuban, while obviously 100 times smarter than trump, would rub people the wrong way just like trump.

He has idgaf money and he acts like it and speaks his mind.

The issue is, people say they dont want status quo politicians, and then get upset when a non status quo politician gets in office, they rail on them for not doing and acting like a politician
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      07-16-2019, 04:15 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Then feel free to shut the F up about the documentation I provided.

You stated that you would believe what was published unless someone provided contrary evidence. I provided contrary evidence and you then proceeded to say that it wasn't covering a period of nearly a decade, which no financial statements do. So because I didn't provide you with evidence that goes against basic accounting principles (in other words, false evidence), you complain?

Gotcha. You keep believing the world is flat, irrespective of evidence suggesting otherwise. Rational people with common sense will hang out over here.

Ok....

The article is about trumps business losses over a specific time period (1985-1994). I may be totally missing something, but how does a 10-K that only covers three properties, a decade after the relevant period, shine any light on whether the reporter was correct when she says the majority of losses from 1985-1994 came from bad business practices?

Also, why are you so angry about everything brother...
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      07-16-2019, 04:23 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
Ok....

The article is about trumps business losses over a specific time period (1985-1994). I may be totally missing something, but how does a 10-K that only covers three properties, a decade after the relevant period, shine any light on whether the reporter was correct when she says the majority of losses from 1985-1994 came from bad business practices?

Also, why are you so angry about everything brother...
I'm actually not angry at all. :P There's some meme about that, but I cannot seem to find it now.

I cannot pull SEC Form 10K's from the periods you mentioned because I believe that Trump International was not a listed company until 1995. As such, those P&L's are not publicly available.

I was able to prove, however, that subsequent to the IPO, Trump International generated DDA that was nearly a total net offset to EBIT, proving that it not only is indeed possible, but highly likely that the same pattern occurred prior to the S-4 filing.

But you probably new this already..........
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      07-16-2019, 04:32 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
I'm actually not angry at all. :P There's some meme about that, but I cannot seem to find it now.

I cannot pull SEC Form 10K's from the periods you mentioned because I believe that Trump International was not a listed company until 1995. As such, those P&L's are not publicly available.

I was able to prove, however, that subsequent to the IPO, Trump International generated DDA that was nearly a total net offset to EBIT, proving that it not only is indeed possible, but highly likely that the same pattern occurred prior to the S-4 filing.

But you probably new this already..........
Ah, ok. I agree that it is possible - i would have agreed with that before, but I don't agree that what you showed me proves it's probable. I do appreciate you linking the 10-K though.

p.s. it's "knew"...
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      07-16-2019, 04:36 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
Yeah, we've already established that trump supporters don't care about his failures and failings. (not saying you're a supporter, i don't know)

Who was our last big private success story turned president? I sincerely mean no offense here, but I really don't give a crap about that. I am more concerned about success in office - and I'm guessing - I don't know for sure - but I'm guessing that we may have different ideas about what "success" means.
No offense as I said I don't care about it either.

If you only care about success in office, I'm misreading your interest in his tax returns. Sorry.
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      07-16-2019, 04:40 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjm120 View Post
No offense as I said I don't care about it either.

If you only care about success in office, I'm misreading your interest in his tax returns. Sorry.
oh, the whole thing about his business losses was just a tangent that led to a rabbit hole. The point, and not a very important one, is that he lies about his business success. Honestly, it was not worth all the effort that has gone into it at this point, but what the hell...
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      07-16-2019, 05:14 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
oh, the whole thing about his business losses was just a tangent that led to a rabbit hole. The point, and not a very important one, is that he lies about his business success. Honestly, it was not worth all the effort that has gone into it at this point, but what the hell...
plenty of useless back and forth on this sub-forum.

None off us has hardly changed anyone's mind (I think I recall one time) but we still go on. and on and on and on
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      07-16-2019, 05:45 PM   #83
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Saw this thread… the tax return thing for the primaries is actually a pretty good tactic against Trump specifically. Short memories apparently with the last election with the democrats issues and their national caucus. Also, a lot of States after that now force their delegates to vote with whomever carried the primary popular vote.
If I got it straight, unless Trump releases his taxes (which he won’t), he won’t be on the primary Republican ballot in CA. That means at the national Republican caucus, all the Republican delegates from CA will have to vote for whomever did win their CA caucus. To give an idea; per the wiki below, at the National Convention, WY would have 29, and TX 155 delegates… CA would have 172. I think that is about 11% of the votes at the Republican National Convention Caucus won’t be for Trump 2020 unless he releases his taxes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republ...nal_Convention
If more States follow suit, then at a minimum, this is going to give the appearance of a divided Republican Party at nationals much like the Bernie/Hilary debacle.
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      07-16-2019, 06:28 PM   #84
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This was on my Twitter feed - This reminded me of those who are pushing these idiotic tactics to "get" Trump.

https://youtu.be/jFoXrSKVNAY
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      07-16-2019, 06:31 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by jimbobiggens View Post
This was on my Twitter feed - This reminded me of those who are pushing these idiotic tactics to "get" Trump.

https://youtu.be/jFoXrSKVNAY
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      07-16-2019, 06:46 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb762 View Post
Yeah, we've already established that trump supporters don't care about his failures and failings. (not saying you're a supporter, i don't know)

Who was our last big private success story turned president? I sincerely mean no offense here, but I really don't give a crap about that. I am more concerned about success in office - and I'm guessing - I don't know for sure - but I'm guessing that we may have different ideas about what "success" means.
Was Hoover our last big success story turned president? He was supposed to be another great businessman.
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      07-16-2019, 06:56 PM   #87
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Regarding Mr. Trump's business failures-certainly none of them resulted from high degrees of non-cash business deductions like depreciation, which by the way is a very nice thing to have.
I believe the reason for the tax returns is a feeling like this guy is very aggressive on his tax returns and foundations, and they would like to know the source of financing he received for golf courses and resorts around the world when he couldn't borrow a dime from most banks because of his business failures,was cash poor, his habits of non-payment, business bankruptcies and extremely high leverage.
Was it Russian money that was being laundered by the Trump organization? Not saying it was but I believe that is the reason for the scrutiny as the President could be in a position of being beholden to a foreign government or agents.
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