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      10-28-2020, 04:55 PM   #1
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R&T: An M5 Wagon is the Perfect Weapon For Hauling Ass (And Groceries)

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...and-groceries/

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      10-28-2020, 05:46 PM   #2
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I love the E34 wagon. Its such a rare, almost non-existent sight, but they are awesome. I still love this M5 "Elektra" Touring from BAT. Just beautiful.




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      10-28-2020, 07:32 PM   #3
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      10-28-2020, 07:56 PM   #4
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What is it with the internet world's obsession with wagons? If even 5% of the people online who claim to love wagons actually bought them, there would be a market for them.

I'm not the type who clips my phone to the waistband of cargo pants, so perhaps I'll never understand...
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      10-28-2020, 11:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC4 View Post
What is it with the internet world's obsession with wagons? If even 5% of the people online who claim to love wagons actually bought them, there would be a market for them.

I'm not the type who clips my phone to the waistband of cargo pants, so perhaps I'll never understand...
It's just the US internet that's obsessed with them. And of course, they're obsessed with them now you can't get them anymore. Back when you could, not a soul talked about them.
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      10-29-2020, 01:25 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC4 View Post
What is it with the internet world's obsession with wagons? If even 5% of the people online who claim to love wagons actually bought them, there would be a market for them.

I'm not the type who clips my phone to the waistband of cargo pants, so perhaps I'll never understand...
CH puts it fairly well:
https://youtu.be/q-zaJh3R-Vw
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      10-29-2020, 02:37 AM   #7
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I love a wagon, but the extra ground clearance on an SUV is handy, so it just makes more sense.

Also here in Aus, we donít get a lot of the nice wagon options (though we are getting the new M3 Touring!).
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      10-29-2020, 11:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC4 View Post
What is it with the internet world's obsession with wagons? If even 5% of the people online who claim to love wagons actually bought them, there would be a market for them.
The world is not US only... In Europe there are lots of wagon and here in Italy I assume that more than 70% of BMW sales are wagon.
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      10-29-2020, 12:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by fmc000 View Post
The world is not US only... In Europe there are lots of wagon and here in Italy I assume that more than 70% of BMW sales are wagon.
I'm jealous. You guys get the fun zippy cars that had no market here in the US. so they were never sold here. I saw some very nice hot hatches during travels. I wanted a Scirocco R for a long time. Hell for a long time, the euro spec Ford Focuses were way better than what we got here in the states
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      10-29-2020, 01:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC4 View Post
What is it with the internet world's obsession with wagons? If even 5% of the people online who claim to love wagons actually bought them, there would be a market for them.

I'm not the type who clips my phone to the waistband of cargo pants, so perhaps I'll never understand...
Quote:
Originally Posted by P1 View Post
It's just the US internet that's obsessed with them. And of course, they're obsessed with them now you can't get them anymore. Back when you could, not a soul talked about them.
I've been on the search for a clean E39 525iT with a 5MT for years, and wasn't able to find them so I gave up. Would have even gone for a wide nose E34 with 5MT and those are also impossible to find in good shape.

Why do I love them? I grew up in Europe so my idea of a wagon was never the ones with wood paneling on the side. If anything, I find the wagons more attractive than the sedans most of the time.

As far as the US market, we weren't even offered with the options other markets were. For example, E61 only came here with xdrive, or E91 never had the N54/55 available ect...

Regardless, there clearly is a market for them. Do you guys have any idea how much a 6MT E91 with Msport go for these days?
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      10-29-2020, 01:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC4 View Post
What is it with the internet world's obsession with wagons? If even 5% of the people online who claim to love wagons actually bought them, there would be a market for them.

I'm not the type who clips my phone to the waistband of cargo pants, so perhaps I'll never understand...
Car manufacturers are self killing the wagon market in the US.

Case in point:
-A Jaguar XF Sportbrake with the supercharged V6 starts at $72k
-The same basic package in F-Pace SUV guise with the same drivetrain starts at $62k.

Nearly a $10K difference to get LESS sheet metal and ground clearance.

BMW did the same thing by sandbagging their wagons for years. They have not sold a performance variant of a wagon in YEARS. You want an E91? There were a few people lucky enough to get a 328 with RWD and a stick and those cars still fetch a premium. The F30 got nerfed and only got the automatic, 4 cyl AWD version.

If I could have gotten a RWD F30 wagon with the I6 I would have done it in a heart beat zero questions asked. But I couldn't justify spending more for less car.

Americans have a craze with SUV's and BMW is happy to let us indulge in that because they build them all here anyways. It's a lot easier for them to manufacture and sell those products domestically then it is to import and certify wagons, let alone boutique wagons for enthusiasts.

A 6Spd CTS-V wagon will still sell for $60K almost regardless of mileage at this point because it's a proper sports thing. I see a decent amount of E63S Wagons here in the northeast as well.

Unfortunately BMW killed it by pricing their products wrong and making a shitty offering and then claiming "oh the take rate is low so we'll get rid of them entirely".

I'd give a testicle for a M5 Touring.
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      10-29-2020, 01:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberdemon View Post
Car manufacturers are self killing the wagon market in the US.

Case in point:
-A Jaguar XF Sportbrake with the supercharged V6 starts at $72k
-The same basic package in F-Pace SUV guise with the same drivetrain starts at $62k.

Nearly a $10K difference to get LESS sheet metal and ground clearance.

BMW did the same thing by sandbagging their wagons for years. They have not sold a performance variant of a wagon in YEARS. You want an E91? There were a few people lucky enough to get a 328 with RWD and a stick and those cars still fetch a premium. The F30 got nerfed and only got the automatic, 4 cyl AWD version.

If I could have gotten a RWD F30 wagon with the I6 I would have done it in a heart beat zero questions asked. But I couldn't justify spending more for less car.

Americans have a craze with SUV's and BMW is happy to let us indulge in that because they build them all here anyways. It's a lot easier for them to manufacture and sell those products domestically then it is to import and certify wagons, let alone boutique wagons for enthusiasts.

A 6Spd CTS-V wagon will still sell for $60K almost regardless of mileage at this point because it's a proper sports thing. I see a decent amount of E63S Wagons here in the northeast as well.

Unfortunately BMW killed it by pricing their products wrong and making a shitty offering and then claiming "oh the take rate is low so we'll get rid of them entirely".

I'd give a testicle for a M5 Touring.
Perfect response.

No different than Europeans thinking Americans are nuts for spending $70k+ on trucks. Yet they still sell them by the millions. Just because they don't get doesn't mean it can't be a thing.
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      10-29-2020, 01:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P1 View Post
It's just the US internet that's obsessed with them. And of course, they're obsessed with them now you can't get them anymore. Back when you could, not a soul talked about them.
Station wagons are ugly but 4-door hatchbacks are where it's at.
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      10-29-2020, 01:23 PM   #14
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My previous car was a C63 W204 Estate and I've also had a few Legnum VR-4s (I'd be VERY impressed if someone in the USA knew what that was)

So I have put my money where my mouth is in the past.

Whats next for me? I don't know yet, while I love the M6 I do think sometimes that an F31 6MT 335i would be a good car to have with the M6, or maybe I could get a B5 Touring then an M2 CS, that'd be a fun combo too.

If there was an F11 M5 Touring I'd absolutely have one.
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      10-29-2020, 02:37 PM   #15
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That M5 estate is gorgeous and a perfect blend of performance and practicality. Back when performance wagons mattered. Now most buyers would just get a Panamera SB or a Trackhawk and call it a day.
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      10-29-2020, 03:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Perfect response.

No different than Europeans thinking Americans are nuts for spending $70k+ on trucks. Yet they still sell them by the millions. Just because they don't get doesn't mean it can't be a thing.
I've never heard a European say that buying a $70K truck is nuts. And you can happily get whatever American truck you want in Europe. Plenty of places sell them.
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      10-29-2020, 03:55 PM   #17
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I think they're referred to as Shooting Break cars in Europe?
Fancy name for station wagon?
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      10-29-2020, 04:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ..Rush.. View Post
I think they're referred to as Shooting Break cars in Europe?
Fancy name for station wagon?
It's "shooting brake" and it was a term to describe a vehicle modified to carry firearms for a hunting party. After that became a more obscure practice for them they came to be known as simple estates.
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      10-29-2020, 04:33 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ..Rush.. View Post
I think they're referred to as Shooting Break cars in Europe?
Fancy name for station wagon?
Over here they are "estate" cars...well, in the UK. BMW use the term "touring", obviously. Peugeot call them "station wagons"; SW for short...so that's a wagon basically. And audi call them "avant"... Comparitively few people or manufacturers call them shooting brakes; normally that term is used when the manufacturer is trying to appeal to the sort of person who would own a shooting brake (of the horse-drawn variety), back in the day.
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      10-29-2020, 04:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erickonphoenix View Post
It's "shooting brake" and it was a term to describe a vehicle modified to carry firearms for a hunting party. After that became a more obscure practice for them they came to be known as simple estates.
As someone who studied car design in school this always annoyed me - a shooting brake is intended to be a long roof 2 door, think Ferrari FF or M Coupe. At some point in time people decided they would try to steal that fancy term and replace it because "Wagon" was bad marketing and American's don't know what an estate is.

If it has 4 doors and a big hatch it's a wagon.
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      10-29-2020, 07:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberdemon View Post
As someone who studied car design in school this always annoyed me - a shooting brake is intended to be a long roof 2 door, think Ferrari FF or M Coupe. At some point in time people decided they would try to steal that fancy term and replace it because "Wagon" was bad marketing and American's don't know what an estate is.

If it has 4 doors and a big hatch it's a wagon.
+1, good history.
Here's another one: The word "Coupe" originally meant 2-door instead of "sedan with not enough rear head room."

Quote:
I love a wagon, but the extra ground clearance on an SUV is handy, so it just makes more sense.
I dunno man.

I love an SUV, but the lower center of gravity and load floor on a wagon is handy, so it just makes more sense. I do after all, go around corners more often than I go offroad.
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      10-29-2020, 07:10 PM   #22
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I do after all, go around corners more often than I go offroad.


To be fair though, in parts of Aus you can drive for a long way, in a straight line, entirely off road.
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