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      03-29-2021, 05:06 PM   #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Size doesn't increase dramatically with the exception of track/body width. G42 is as wide as current F87 with G87 increased even further. The G87 is going to be a rather special car. It will be the final non-hybridized ICE volume production model released, starting with a 450ps 6MT Pure.
Any ideas if this will be the last available M car available with a manual transmission?
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      03-29-2021, 05:08 PM   #618
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Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Eh, the window line and headlights are about right, can't say as much about the rest. Definitely way too soft.
Yeah it does look softer than the F87. The front is less aggressive and the line running across the side of the car is higher than I'd like it to be, traditionally it ran lower in line with the door handles which IMO looked sportier.
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      03-29-2021, 05:29 PM   #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Size doesn't increase dramatically with the exception of track/body width. G42 is as wide as current F87 with G87 increased even further. The G87 is going to be a rather special car. It will be the final non-hybridized ICE volume production model released, starting with a 450ps 6MT Pure.
Sounding better every day! Will they offer the carbon fiber seats?
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      03-29-2021, 06:13 PM   #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikester19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikester19 View Post
Eh, the window line and headlights are about right, can't say as much about the rest. Definitely way too soft.
Yeah it does look softer than the F87. The front is less aggressive and the line running across the side of the car is higher than I'd like it to be, traditionally it ran lower in line with the door handles which IMO looked sportier.
I hope you're referring to the rendering. Production car is closer to the 2002 Hommage than that interpretation.
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      03-29-2021, 06:20 PM   #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikester19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikester19 View Post
Eh, the window line and headlights are about right, can't say as much about the rest. Definitely way too soft.
Yeah it does look softer than the F87. The front is less aggressive and the line running across the side of the car is higher than I'd like it to be, traditionally it ran lower in line with the door handles which IMO looked sportier.
I hope you're referring to the rendering. Production car is closer to the 2002 Hommage than that interpretation.
Yeah it's the rendering we're talking about. Can't comment on the production car as I haven't read or heard that it will be closer to the 2002 hommage but if it is that is great news!
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      03-29-2021, 06:26 PM   #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Size doesn't increase dramatically with the exception of track/body width. G42 is as wide as current F87 with G87 increased even further. The G87 is going to be a rather special car. It will be the final non-hybridized ICE volume production model released, starting with a 450ps 6MT Pure.
Width: yeah, E82 'bulldog stance' of a decade ago 'Reloaded'.





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      03-29-2021, 06:46 PM   #623
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      03-29-2021, 06:54 PM   #624
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Oh man I may actually finally own an M car if this M2 comes out as you guys(Scott26, Artemis, Lementier) are saying it will be/look like.
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      03-29-2021, 07:28 PM   #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Size doesn't increase dramatically with the exception of track/body width. G42 is as wide as current F87 with G87 increased even further. The G87 is going to be a rather special car. It will be the final non-hybridized ICE volume production model released, starting with a 450ps 6MT Pure.
Width: yeah, E82 'bulldog stance' of a decade ago 'Reloaded'.

[IMG]https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...8;d=1614281858[/IMG]

[IMG]https://bimmerpost.imgix.net/goodies...%20M2%2013.jpg[/IMG]

Attachment 2565691
Good selection of images. Still a ways off before the mules out in public have production body panels on them (they're still in the cut and splice stage).
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      03-29-2021, 08:12 PM   #626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Size doesn't increase dramatically with the exception of track/body width. G42 is as wide as current F87 with G87 increased even further. The G87 is going to be a rather special car. It will be the final non-hybridized ICE volume production model released, starting with a 450ps 6MT Pure.
Any ideas if this will be the last available M car available with a manual transmission?
Logic says yes, gut says no.
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      03-29-2021, 09:17 PM   #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Logic says yes, gut says no.
The past:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Preuninger in a TopGear interview in April 2010 about the PDK gearbox:
"Grandmas can use paddles. They aren’t challenging." (yup, his words)
(source: https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...dr/road-test-0)

Preuninger with Chris Harris in 2015 (Cayman GT4 test):
Spring 2017:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Expectations for the new 911 GT3 6MT:
"It also gave chance to revisit discussion of the manual option with Andreas Preuninger. I start, cheekily, by reminding him that at the launch of the previous GT3 the PDK-only decision was pitched as a big improvement, largely on the basis of its faster lap times. "Well it is still faster on track," Preuninger says, "but lap times aren't everything, are they?" Preuninger stresses his ambition has always been to offer transmission choice - "like whether you take the ceramic brakes" - but limited development resources restricted what was possible. But he admits the PDK-only GT3 displeased some traditional buyers, with the huge popularity of the manual-only Cayman GT4 - and an increase in engineering resources - making the case. This was initially used in the 911 R, but the plan was always to spread the costs by offering it in the GT3 as well. Preuninger says he doesn't know how many people will opt for the manual - a zero-cost option tick in most territories - but reckons it could be as high as a third of production. "If it's less than 20 per cent then I'm in trouble," he admits."
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...l-review/36190
2021:
See here ("The Porsche 911 GT3 attracts American manual buyers - It more than doubles the global take rate here").

The future:
Porsche's expectation about the 992 GT3 sporting a manual transmission: see here:
"Porsche GT Division boss Andreas Preuninger predicts some 40% of new 911 GT3 buyers will specify the manual ’box, but head of motorsport Frank-Steffen Walliser hinted it could be even more. “We lost several bottles of wine by betting on the take rate when we reintroduced the manual option. We were surprised by how high it was,” he said."
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      03-29-2021, 10:55 PM   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
Logic says yes, gut says no.
The past:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Preuninger in a TopGear interview in April 2010 about the PDK gearbox:
"Grandmas can use paddles. They aren’t challenging." (yup, his words)
(source: https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...dr/road-test-0)

Preuninger with Chris Harris in 2015 (Cayman GT4 test):
Spring 2017:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Expectations for the new 911 GT3 6MT:
"It also gave chance to revisit discussion of the manual option with Andreas Preuninger. I start, cheekily, by reminding him that at the launch of the previous GT3 the PDK-only decision was pitched as a big improvement, largely on the basis of its faster lap times. "Well it is still faster on track," Preuninger says, "but lap times aren't everything, are they?" Preuninger stresses his ambition has always been to offer transmission choice - "like whether you take the ceramic brakes" - but limited development resources restricted what was possible. But he admits the PDK-only GT3 displeased some traditional buyers, with the huge popularity of the manual-only Cayman GT4 - and an increase in engineering resources - making the case. This was initially used in the 911 R, but the plan was always to spread the costs by offering it in the GT3 as well. Preuninger says he doesn't know how many people will opt for [COLOR="Red"]the manual[/COLOR] - a zero-cost option tick in most territories - but [COLOR="Red"]reckons[/COLOR] it could be as high as [COLOR="Red"]a third of production[/COLOR]. [COLOR="Red"]"If it's less than 20 per cent then I'm in trouble,"[/COLOR] he admits."
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...l-review/36190
2021:
See here ("The Porsche 911 GT3 attracts American manual buyers - It more than doubles the global take rate here").

The future:
Porsche's expectation about the 992 GT3 sporting a manual transmission: see here:
"Porsche GT Division boss Andreas Preuninger predicts some 40% of new 911 GT3 buyers will specify the manual ’box, but head of motorsport Frank-Steffen Walliser hinted it could be even more. “We lost several bottles of wine by betting on the take rate when we reintroduced the manual option. We were surprised by how high it was,” he said."
Not really comparable. There's an additional factor that isn't mentioned en masse that will kill off the mainstream MT. New Vehicle Acquisition Method, or Lease vs. Purchase.
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      03-29-2021, 11:48 PM   #629
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Another aspect regarding widened width: production facility limitations.

It has been already reported over here that the USA-spec G87 M2 ('xxx3' = USA-spec LHD) will be built at the state-of-the-art plant of BMW San Luis Potosí in Mexico (see here and here).

For building the EUR-spec G87 M2 ('xxx1' = EUR-spec LHD | 'xxx2' = EUR-spec RHD) I guess that a 'collision check' will have been performed again at the BMW Leipzig plant, this time using a G42 2er prototype. See picture below: March 2014 'collision check' during development of the F87 M2, using an F22 M235i: "can it safely pass through the production facility ?":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Keep in mind that the infrastructure at the Leipzig factory also plays a key role: prior to building the M2, a 'collision check' through the production facilities was performed (see the picture below: "Störkantendurchlauf" = interfering edges run-through - source: this video (11:21-11:40)).
If an M2 variant fails that test (too wide), it's either back to the drawing board or build the car (partially) elsewhere, or work with 'add-on' body parts. I cannot see BMW restructuring the Leipzig production facility merely for building an M2 variant.
Conclusion: M2 variant fenders can only become as wide as the "Störkantendurchlauf" test allows. Likely there's still some margin compared to the current M2, but it might be getting tight.

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      03-30-2021, 12:04 AM   #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Another aspect regarding widened width: production facility limitations.

It has been already reported over here that the USA-spec G87 M2 ('xxx3' = USA-spec LHD) will be built at the state-of-the-art plant of BMW San Luis Potosí in Mexico (see here and here).

For building the EUR-spec G87 M2 ('xxx1' = EUR-spec LHD | 'xxx2' = EUR-spec RHD) very likely a new 'collision check' will have been performed again at the BMW Leipzig plant (see picture below: March 2014 'collision check' during development of the F87 M2, using an F22 2er: "can it pass everywhere ?"):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Keep in mind that the infrastructure at the Leipzig factory also plays a key role: prior to building the M2, a 'collision check' through the production facilities was performed (see the picture below: "Störkantendurchlauf" = interfering edges run-through - source: this video (11:21-11:40)).
If an M2 variant fails that test (too wide), it's either back to the drawing board or build the car (partially) elsewhere, or work with 'add-on' body parts. I cannot see BMW restructuring the Leipzig production facility merely for building an M2 variant.
Conclusion: M2 variant fenders can only become as wide as the "Störkantendurchlauf" test allows. Likely there's still some margin compared to the current M2, but it might be getting tight.

100% sure it's going to roll off the line at Leipzig?
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      03-30-2021, 12:45 AM   #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
100% sure it's going to roll off the line at Leipzig?
No, not seen confirmation yet of production at the Leipzig plant.

But, also for geographical reasons, it would make sense to produce the USA-spec G42 2er and G87 M2 in Mexico and the EUR-spec G42 2er and G87 M2 in Germany (compare with the G20 3er production: several plants worldwide including Mexico and Germany). Transatlantic transport delays for deliveries to European 'home market' customers: IMHO unlikely.

Clear indication of preparing G42 and G87 production in Mexico (dedicated thread: here):



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      03-30-2021, 05:19 AM   #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
100% sure it's going to roll off the line at Leipzig?
I thought videos in below threads say SLP only.

https://g29.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1698838
https://g29.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1702708
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      03-30-2021, 08:37 AM   #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
100% sure it's going to roll off the line at Leipzig?
No, not seen confirmation yet of production at the Leipzig plant.

But, also for geographical reasons, it would make sense to produce the USA-spec G42 2er and G87 M2 in Mexico and the EUR-spec G42 2er and G87 M2 in Germany (compare with the G20 3er production: several plants worldwide including Mexico and Germany). Transatlantic transport delays for deliveries to European 'home market' customers: IMHO unlikely.

Clear indication of preparing G42 and G87 production in Mexico (dedicated thread: here):



I'd imagine Graz is more likely. Magna is the contract manufacturer for G42/G82 BiW after all.
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      04-02-2021, 04:36 PM   #634
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I have very high hopes for this car. My G8x fund has officially been rolled over into this model as there’s nothing else which interests me. Can’t wait to see the final version. I just hope they offer better colors than the boring colors on the prior model. Individual paint options would be awesome.
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      04-03-2021, 04:20 PM   #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
I have very high hopes for this car. My G8x fund has officially been rolled over into this model as there’s nothing else which interests me. Can’t wait to see the final version. I just hope they offer better colors than the boring colors on the prior model. Individual paint options would be awesome.
With the popularity of the vibrant colors of the G80, I think they'd be stupid not to.
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      04-04-2021, 11:22 AM   #636
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Wonder if there’ll be any elements of the 2002 hommage in the design
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      04-11-2021, 10:59 AM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
I have very high hopes for this car. My G8x fund has officially been rolled over into this model as there’s nothing else which interests me. Can’t wait to see the final version. I just hope they offer better colors than the boring colors on the prior model. Individual paint options would be awesome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Game View Post
With the popularity of the vibrant colors of the G80, I think they'd be stupid not to.
With Valencia Orange Metallic the car moves, even when parked.



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      04-11-2021, 06:24 PM   #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Any ideas if this will be the last available M car available with a manual transmission?
Why would this be the last M car with a manual?

I think BMW will keep making a manual M car as long if there's a market for one. As long as the net emissions by the manufacturer meet whatever standard is set by the country they're selling in, which if hypothetically 80% of the model range is electric, would be plenty of ICE manual cars that BMW could build.

Isn't the M2 almost 50/50 take rate between manual and DCT? Why lose out on that market share?
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