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      05-17-2020, 10:39 PM   #1
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Carbon Ceramic brake questions

Hey guys , I went to an Indy shop to have my tranny fluid changed , and he back to me saying my brakes are dangerously low , he said he plugged in his laptop and said Front brakes at 36% and rears at 12% . He said I have about another month and I donít want to gouge the Ceramic rotors to change the pads

So I said to him did you physically check the pads? did you measure the thickness of the pads ? He said no but he test drove it and felt good no shaking , lmao
I like this shop but I felt insulted by him telling me this , Iím going to call him and confront him about. These pads with all the parts and Pads,springs,sensors and misc Itís about 1K in parts

Do any of you guys now how the dealer checks the pads?

Is it depending on thickness they recode mileage into the computer?

Is there a chart for mileage input according to thickness?

My pads are at least 1/4 thick yet Physically looking at them the outboards are at least ,I have to pull a wheel to check inboards

Anybody with experience with this and Carbon Ceramic brakes Iím all ears please chime in , Thank you
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      05-18-2020, 02:01 AM   #2
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Pads are measured by their thickness. As they provide a heatsink to the discs you don't want to get them too low as that will accelerate the wear of the discs.

The discs are measured by weight, not thickness. Each disc will have a minimum weight printed on it.
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      05-18-2020, 08:15 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whipple View Post
Hey guys , I went to an Indy shop to have my tranny fluid changed , and he back to me saying my brakes are dangerously low , he said he plugged in his laptop and said Front brakes at 36% and rears at 12% . He said I have about another month and I donít want to gouge the Ceramic rotors to change the pads

So I said to him did you physically check the pads? did you measure the thickness of the pads ? He said no but he test drove it and felt good no shaking , lmao
I like this shop but I felt insulted by him telling me this , Iím going to call him and confront him about. These pads with all the parts and Pads,springs,sensors and misc Itís about 1K in parts

Do any of you guys now how the dealer checks the pads?

Is it depending on thickness they recode mileage into the computer?

Is there a chart for mileage input according to thickness?

My pads are at least 1/4 thick yet Physically looking at them the outboards are at least ,I have to pull a wheel to check inboards

Anybody with experience with this and Carbon Ceramic brakes Iím all ears please chime in , Thank you
How much was your tranny fluid change service?
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      05-18-2020, 11:31 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
Pads are measured by their thickness. As they provide a heatsink to the discs you don't want to get them too low as that will accelerate the wear of the discs.

The discs are measured by weight, not thickness. Each disc will have a minimum weight printed on it.
To expand on Brad's comment here....

Pads are just one wear item and the computer indicator from the brake pad sensor is an estimate. A very good estimate based on my decades of BMW ownership, but still an estimate.

Your brakes likely will need changing based on those indicators.

To answer your question, dealers check the computer, and they perform a pad thickness measurement.

Now rotors is a whole different story. CCB rotors need to be weighed. You should not balk at the cost associated with dismounting each rotor to weigh them, but considering a whole set is $10,000, it's little money spent to gauge how much more life you have left. CCB's have relatively huge variability in manufactured weight, which means each rotor begins in life with a different weight. Also the precision involved in measuring the weight is very minute. So each one technically should be cleaned before weighing.

There is a visual indicator for rough estimate on the rotors. They are little dime sized circles etched into the rotor. When those circles become non-circles, that indicates the rotors wearing down towards the end of life.

The only way that I'm aware of that that you can measure rotor weight without taking the rotor off is with the carboteq tool.

https://www.proceq.com/product/carbo...c-brake-discs/



Most independent Porsche shops should have these laying around. You should take your car to these shops and pay them for a half hour of their time for using their tool. If you feel like your trajectory of ownership will be owning CCB equipped cars, you can probably just buy the tool out right. Pretty much all modern day exotics, and many mid tier Porsche models come with CCBs. Save you a lot of money over time.

Google BMW CCB rotor wear indicator and you'll see a BMW manual out there that shows you what to look for on the rotor. It's also in the video I posted above. There's still a minimum rotor thickness measure, but it's a high precision measurement, that requires calibrated tools.

Lastly there's a theory out there among CCB owners across all manufacturers that you should change your pads halfway through their life anyways. It somehow extends the longevity of your rotors. Don't ask me why, I haven't had time to pour through the forums discussing this topic and rationale.
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      05-18-2020, 07:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badboy8813 View Post
How much was your tranny fluid change service?
Hi they charged me $246 for parts=9liters of Motul DCT-F, upper and lower filters and $250 for labor they used ISTA to do the job it suppose to open valves and let more fluid into the transmission its a little more time consuming but im not sure 100 percent necessary
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      05-18-2020, 08:21 PM   #6
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Thanks guys for the help,But I thought the wear indicator was incase you get to low it rubs through the sensor and breaks a connection and you get a brake warning on the dash ,that sensor needs to be replaced,

I didn't know the sensor can actually determine the actual thickness of the pad and determine mileage ??

I thought the way they check at the dealer is they measure the thickness of the pads and whatever that thickness is determines the mileage they code into the service onboard computer until next brake service is due ,I believe I can do this with the Carly app, just like I do oil ,and brake fluid service
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      05-19-2020, 01:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
To expand on Brad's comment here....

Pads are just one wear item and the computer indicator from the brake pad sensor is an estimate. A very good estimate based on my decades of BMW ownership, but still an estimate.

Your brakes likely will need changing based on those indicators.

To answer your question, dealers check the computer, and they perform a pad thickness measurement.

Now rotors is a whole different story. CCB rotors need to be weighed. You should not balk at the cost associated with dismounting each rotor to weigh them, but considering a whole set is $10,000, it's little money spent to gauge how much more life you have left. CCB's have relatively huge variability in manufactured weight, which means each rotor begins in life with a different weight. Also the precision involved in measuring the weight is very minute. So each one technically should be cleaned before weighing.

There is a visual indicator for rough estimate on the rotors. They are little dime sized circles etched into the rotor. When those circles become non-circles, that indicates the rotors wearing down towards the end of life.

The only way that I'm aware of that that you can measure rotor weight without taking the rotor off is with the carboteq tool.

https://www.proceq.com/product/carbo...c-brake-discs/



Most independent Porsche shops should have these laying around. You should take your car to these shops and pay them for a half hour of their time for using their tool. If you feel like your trajectory of ownership will be owning CCB equipped cars, you can probably just buy the tool out right. Pretty much all modern day exotics, and many mid tier Porsche models come with CCBs. Save you a lot of money over time.

Google BMW CCB rotor wear indicator and you'll see a BMW manual out there that shows you what to look for on the rotor. It's also in the video I posted above. There's still a minimum rotor thickness measure, but it's a high precision measurement, that requires calibrated tools.

Lastly there's a theory out there among CCB owners across all manufacturers that you should change your pads halfway through their life anyways. It somehow extends the longevity of your rotors. Don't ask me why, I haven't had time to pour through the forums discussing this topic and rationale.
Lol thanks - a friend had just left after coming around to my place to celebrate NZ going back to being fairly open and I had quite a bit to drink, that was as many words as I could string together!

I'm now sober and did some searching Lemetier is amazing, check out his post in this thread specifically #63

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1302752&page=3
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      05-19-2020, 11:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whipple View Post
Thanks guys for the help,But I thought the wear indicator was incase you get to low it rubs through the sensor and breaks a connection and you get a brake warning on the dash ,that sensor needs to be replaced,

I didn't know the sensor can actually determine the actual thickness of the pad and determine mileage ??

I thought the way they check at the dealer is they measure the thickness of the pads and whatever that thickness is determines the mileage they code into the service onboard computer until next brake service is due ,I believe I can do this with the Carly app, just like I do oil ,and brake fluid service
To clarify, you are correct. The wear indicator estimates the pad wear. The way it works is how you described.

The dealer checks brake pad thickness with a measurement. They only used the onboard computer as an indicator to look at things. After the pads and sensors are replaced, they reset the onboard computer.
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      05-20-2020, 09:17 PM   #9
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Ok guys so I pulled all my wheels to check my pad conditions ,all pads are wearing evenly they all seem identical ,these are the original pads with 35k on them ,my fronts are still 1/2inch thick(12.7mm) from the pad backing plate to the rotor, and my rears are 3/8ths of an inch thick(9.525mm) ,the rears are closer to worn than the fronts.

All my Rotor wear indicators are still solid and round so im not to worried about the condition of the rotors.

You will see in the pics the distance between the pad wear sensor and the rotor ,I believe im still in a safe zone for some time.

I made the final decision upon the info you guys gave me and the cost of rotor replacement to just go ahead and change the pads,I think thats the smartest thing to do.


Im was also contemplating to do the job myself,but im gonna let my indy shop just take care of it as they do them all the time,I have done tons of steel brake setups before and I know its the same concept but I dont want to miss anything and gouge a rotor ,as they say penny wise dollar foolish

Let me know what you guys think of the pics ,would you change them yet?

Thanks again for the help!!!!
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      05-21-2020, 11:39 AM   #10
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Remember the rotors last a life time (300000km) Under normal conditions (no tracking)
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      05-21-2020, 12:21 PM   #11
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Good call OP on changing the pads. Since you're taking it to a independent shop, you should give him a heads up regarding carbon ceramics in the context of ensuring that they have appropriate insurance in case they damage it. Most reputable shops has enough insurance.
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      05-21-2020, 03:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
Good call OP on changing the pads. Since you're taking it to a independent shop, you should give him a heads up regarding carbon ceramics in the context of ensuring that they have appropriate insurance in case they damage it. Most reputable shops has enough insurance.
Good point, Thatís another reason why I donít want to do it myself, in the beginning I thought the shop was trying to just gat a brake job out of it ,now what I know he was just helping me keep my rotors in great shape ,

I contacted him waiting on prices to do the job,I asked him if he uses OEM brake pads he said no he uses another brand that the guys love , but he said if I want OEM thatís fine he will get me prices for both , Iím actually Surprised there is a aftermarket pad for Carbon Ceramic discs , unless he was mistaken for steel rotors , I tried searching and found nothing
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      05-21-2020, 03:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Remember the rotors last a life time (300000km) Under normal conditions (no tracking)
Yes , Thatís what my shop actually told me , I read the brochure on CCB and anything over 600 degrees can accelerate rotor wear , Iím just using on the street , I watched the temp the other day normal driving with some hard stops they barely hit 100 degrees lol
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      05-21-2020, 04:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whipple View Post
Good point, Thatís another reason why I donít want to do it myself, in the beginning I thought the shop was trying to just gat a brake job out of it ,now what I know he was just helping me keep my rotors in great shape ,

I contacted him waiting on prices to do the job,I asked him if he uses OEM brake pads he said no he uses another brand that the guys love , but he said if I want OEM thatís fine he will get me prices for both , Iím actually Surprised there is a aftermarket pad for Carbon Ceramic discs , unless he was mistaken for steel rotors , I tried searching and found nothing
I highly recommend sticking to OEM/Brembo pads.
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      05-21-2020, 09:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I highly recommend sticking to OEM/Brembo pads.
LOL,How did I know you were gonna say that,I think I just wanted to hear you actually say it
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      05-21-2020, 10:45 PM   #16
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How many miles are on your car?
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      05-21-2020, 11:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
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How many miles are on your car?
35k
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      05-27-2020, 10:08 PM   #18
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Ok so we were right, they dont make aftermarket brake pads for the Carbon Ceramic brakes only the factory Brembo pads are available,So I got the estimate,Its roughly $975-$1050 for all parts needed I shopped around for the parts and Labor is 400 bucks so looking at around $1500 for the complete job,Like Flying ace said use the factory Brembo pads I am more comfortable with stock pads anyway especially on the CCBs
It does seem like a lot of money for pads but if your saving your $12000 rotors it kind of makes sense LOL
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      05-28-2020, 08:10 PM   #19
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Do any of you guys know the gold touch up paint color for the caliper? as you can see in one of my pics the front caliper looks like it got gouged from a wheel weight someone put it in the wrong spot
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      05-29-2020, 04:06 AM   #20
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I have to say that reading this thread makes me think CCBs are more trouble than they're worth unless you plan on doing a lot of fast track driving.
The standard brakes are pretty good and upgraded fluid and pads would be enough for most people for the odd track day.
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      05-29-2020, 05:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I have to say that reading this thread makes me think CCBs are more trouble than they're worth unless you plan on doing a lot of fast track driving.
The standard brakes are pretty good and upgraded fluid and pads would be enough for most people for the odd track day.
Fast road driving yes, but not track driving as you'll overheat them and destroy them very quickly.
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      05-29-2020, 05:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I have to say that reading this thread makes me think CCBs are more trouble than they're worth unless you plan on doing a lot of fast track driving.
The standard brakes are pretty good and upgraded fluid and pads would be enough for most people for the odd track day.
You have it backwards. CCBs wear significantly faster for track cars. So using CCBs for performance driving will break your wallet.

CCBs makes most sense for street cars, heavy street cars. Over the course of 7-8 years, it may be cheaper to own CCBs than steel brakes on such a car and driving environment. Over 7-8 years, you would have spent $9-$10k on steel replacements, about breakeven for the CCBs over the same mileage. (Assuming 10k miles a year)
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