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      05-12-2020, 12:55 PM   #1
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Thumbs up Manhart GR 450 German-Tuned Toyota Supra!

Now we're talking!!!

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As its name implies, the Manhart Supra GR 450's most noteworthy feature is the 450 PSóthat's 444 horsepoweróchurned out by its turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six. Credit Manhart's ECU remap for finding more than 100 additional horses in the engine's stable.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/manh...etails-photos/




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      05-12-2020, 01:29 PM   #2
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Obviously I’m in the minority... but I’d take a stock tuned manual tranny Supra over any tuned slushbox. Such a shame the transmission choice in this car!
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      05-12-2020, 01:41 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Obviously Iím in the minority... but Iíd take a stock tuned manual tranny Supra over any tuned slushbox. Such a shame the transmission choice in this car!
+1 but it is a damn good looking car.
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      05-12-2020, 02:08 PM   #4
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Looks too FRS/BRZ for my taste.

But in all seriousness if they made the Supra concept and charged $100k like the GTR, I would have likely purchased it. But the Z-upra version at >$50k doesnít do it for me.




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      05-12-2020, 04:41 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Obviously Iím in the minority... but Iíd take a stock tuned manual tranny Supra over any tuned slushbox. Such a shame the transmission choice in this car!
Fuck a manual. It's a thing of the past. Like Blockbuster Video.
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      05-12-2020, 08:47 PM   #6
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Cool car if you're a teenager I guess. Or maybe someone in their 20s.
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      05-12-2020, 09:49 PM   #7
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Man that's ugly.
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      05-14-2020, 08:48 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrylee View Post
Looks too FRS/BRZ for my taste.

But in all seriousness if they made the Supra concept and charged $100k like the GTR, I would have likely purchased it. But the Z-upra version at >$50k doesnít do it for me.







this is the only answer to the strikeout that toyota released.
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      05-14-2020, 11:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henrylee View Post
Looks too FRS/BRZ for my taste.

But in all seriousness if they made the Supra concept and charged $100k like the GTR, I would have likely purchased it. But the Z-upra version at >$50k doesnít do it for me.
Yep. Toyota got lazy and would rather have other people build sports cars for them. They would rather stick to their bland car making.
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      05-14-2020, 04:45 PM   #10
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Yep. Toyota got lazy and would rather have other people build sports cars for them. They would rather stick to their bland car making.
It was way too expensive to build the FT-1 concept. The complex body panels were a nightmare to mold and would have been nearly impossible to produce in quantity with high enough quality standards. The car would have cost well north of $100k if they had made a new chassis/drivetrain in-house along with the complex body work. My Dad worked for Toyota for 20 years and had a great conversation with one of the engineers on the FT-1 concept when it made an appearance at a regional Toyota corporate event. The concept didnít even have a real drivetrain or functional electronics. It was a pretty shell with a small electric motor so it could be moved around.

Its just too expensive to make new platforms these days unless it can be shared across products/brands. Get used to it, itís going to be happening more and more.
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      05-14-2020, 06:43 PM   #11
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I know I'm in the minority, but having seen the FT1 at Cars and Coffee in Irving, it's hideous, overstyled and all fluff. I'm not a huge fan of the few fake vents and weird thing stuck on the door of the Mk5, but it's better in every way than the bulbous and inflated looking FT1. It just looks like a front engine car masquerading as a mid engine car.

And didn't Toyota effectively nullify this Manhart power gain with the 2021 car that's dynoing at nearly 390hp?
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      05-14-2020, 06:48 PM   #12
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Also kind of funny that TVR took the basics of both and made it look better.
[IMG]https://media.evo.co.uk/image/upload...20Griffith.jpg[/IMG]
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      05-14-2020, 10:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Also kind of funny that TVR took the basics of both and made it look better.
[IMG]https://media.evo.co.uk/image/upload...20Griffith.jpg[/IMG]
IMO, that looks pretty bad too, the front quarter panel just stops past the wheel, like abruptly for no reason. I kinda liked the wedge cars, but overall, they aren't very pleasing shapes.
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      05-15-2020, 12:26 PM   #14
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looks dumb + slushbox trans

I would have bought a 100k supra if it looked like the FT1 and had a Toyota motor + manual trans.

I don't buy the 'it would be too expensive' nonsense. They have in house 6 cylinders and 8 cylinder engines to work off of. They have the chassis from the LC500. If GM can build a C8 and Nissan can build a GTR there is no excuse for the supra. They would rather save pennies and play it safe by having BMW build them a car.
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      05-15-2020, 01:11 PM   #15
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      05-17-2020, 12:06 AM   #16
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LC500 chassis with FT1 body, manual, and the sound of a LFA please!!
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      05-17-2020, 02:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Obviously I'm in the minority... but I'd take a stock tuned manual tranny Supra over any tuned slushbox. Such a shame the transmission choice in this car!
Agreed. I'll stick with my old 2jz-gte and 340 both with manuals. #SaveTheManuals
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      05-20-2020, 03:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pukicabuki View Post
It was way too expensive to build the FT-1 concept. The complex body panels were a nightmare to mold and would have been nearly impossible to produce in quantity with high enough quality standards. The car would have cost well north of $100k if they had made a new chassis/drivetrain in-house along with the complex body work. My Dad worked for Toyota for 20 years and had a great conversation with one of the engineers on the FT-1 concept when it made an appearance at a regional Toyota corporate event. The concept didnít even have a real drivetrain or functional electronics. It was a pretty shell with a small electric motor so it could be moved around.

Its just too expensive to make new platforms these days unless it can be shared across products/brands. Get used to it, itís going to be happening more and more.
Get used to what?

I never even mentioned the concept car in my post. Not sure what the FT-1 concept has to do with Toyota's lack of innovation. Everything they've ever done involved someone else. GT2000 was a Jaguar design. Celica was response to the Datsun Z. MkIV was response to Z32TT. LFA took 10 years. Oh wait, they did popularize the Prius.

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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I know I'm in the minority, but having seen the FT1 at Cars and Coffee in Irving, it's hideous, overstyled and all fluff. I'm not a huge fan of the few fake vents and weird thing stuck on the door of the Mk5, but it's better in every way than the bulbous and inflated looking FT1. It just looks like a front engine car masquerading as a mid engine car.

And didn't Toyota effectively nullify this Manhart power gain with the 2021 car that's dynoing at nearly 390hp?
Well, I'm with you. Overstyled it is. However, it did do what it was made to do, which was to rile up hype. The link between the FT-1 and Supra was pretty much due to the media. Until Toyota comes out with a true halo car, Toyota is a bland car company. Even if they do, will it stay a Toyota or will it become a Lexus like the LFA? And the LC500.

Their attempts to stylize the Camry and Corolla are just that, and it ends up being fluff. Exciting? To some, yes. Will it ever be a BMW? I highly doubt it. I think that's why the MkV is a BMW.
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      05-21-2020, 11:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pukicabuki View Post
It was way too expensive to build the FT-1 concept. The complex body panels were a nightmare to mold and would have been nearly impossible to produce in quantity with high enough quality standards. The car would have cost well north of $100k if they had made a new chassis/drivetrain in-house along with the complex body work. My Dad worked for Toyota for 20 years and had a great conversation with one of the engineers on the FT-1 concept when it made an appearance at a regional Toyota corporate event. The concept didnít even have a real drivetrain or functional electronics. It was a pretty shell with a small electric motor so it could be moved around.

Its just too expensive to make new platforms these days unless it can be shared across products/brands. Get used to it, itís going to be happening more and more.
Concept cars are just that - they don't have to follow the myriad of government regulations, don't have to care about mass production, etc. It's not practical and not reasonable for Toyota or any manufacturer to do this.

That said... Toyota has been resting on their laurels for a while and some would call that lazy. Their cars are still using engines that are decades old; the IS is way overdue for a refresh; they spend less % on R&D then their German counterparts - and it shows. Their religious fixation to quality and the bottom line have compromised their ability to innovate and is why they had to have BMW build the Supra for them (they admitted the Supra would've been priced >$100K without BMW's R&D help).

It's not about sharing platforms as you claim because other carmakers do this too but are much more innovative and produce cars that are actually fun to drive. Toyota is good for people who think cars should be like appliances to get you from point A to point B without fuss. We don't have to "get used to it" because Toyota isn't the only game in town. Thank goodness.
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      05-26-2020, 09:38 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
Concept cars are just that - they don't have to follow the myriad of government regulations, don't have to care about mass production, etc. It's not practical and not reasonable for Toyota or any manufacturer to do this.

That said... Toyota has been resting on their laurels for a while and some would call that lazy. Their cars are still using engines that are decades old; the IS is way overdue for a refresh; they spend less % on R&D then their German counterparts - and it shows. Their religious fixation to quality and the bottom line have compromised their ability to innovate and is why they had to have BMW build the Supra for them (they admitted the Supra would've been priced >$100K without BMW's R&D help).

It's not about sharing platforms as you claim because other carmakers do this too but are much more innovative and produce cars that are actually fun to drive. Toyota is good for people who think cars should be like appliances to get you from point A to point B without fuss. We don't have to "get used to it" because Toyota isn't the only game in town. Thank goodness.
You took the words right out of my mouth (off my keyboard). I've been saying that about Toyota ever since ... can't remember. LOL
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      05-26-2020, 09:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
Concept cars are just that - they don't have to follow the myriad of government regulations, don't have to care about mass production, etc. It's not practical and not reasonable for Toyota or any manufacturer to do this.

That said... Toyota has been resting on their laurels for a while and some would call that lazy. Their cars are still using engines that are decades old; the IS is way overdue for a refresh; they spend less % on R&D then their German counterparts - and it shows. Their religious fixation to quality and the bottom line have compromised their ability to innovate and is why they had to have BMW build the Supra for them (they admitted the Supra would've been priced >$100K without BMW's R&D help).

It's not about sharing platforms as you claim because other carmakers do this too but are much more innovative and produce cars that are actually fun to drive. Toyota is good for people who think cars should be like appliances to get you from point A to point B without fuss. We don't have to "get used to it" because Toyota isn't the only game in town. Thank goodness.
Why was there a need for a new supra?

They let another auto maker re-create their halo car. Fail #1. They go with BMW which is far from toyota reliability, Fail #2. No manual transmisson, Fail #3. They make it look like a teenagers car, instead of something that would appeal to a 40+ year old man like the GTR, Fail #4.

Everything about this car was a total failure.
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      05-26-2020, 11:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYE46M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
Concept cars are just that - they don't have to follow the myriad of government regulations, don't have to care about mass production, etc. It's not practical and not reasonable for Toyota or any manufacturer to do this.

That said... Toyota has been resting on their laurels for a while and some would call that lazy. Their cars are still using engines that are decades old; the IS is way overdue for a refresh; they spend less % on R&D then their German counterparts - and it shows. Their religious fixation to quality and the bottom line have compromised their ability to innovate and is why they had to have BMW build the Supra for them (they admitted the Supra would've been priced >$100K without BMW's R&D help).

It's not about sharing platforms as you claim because other carmakers do this too but are much more innovative and produce cars that are actually fun to drive. Toyota is good for people who think cars should be like appliances to get you from point A to point B without fuss. We don't have to "get used to it" because Toyota isn't the only game in town. Thank goodness.
Why was there a need for a new supra?

They let another auto maker re-create their halo car. Fail #1. They go with BMW which is far from toyota reliability, Fail #2. No manual transmisson, Fail #3. They make it look like a teenagers car, instead of something that would appeal to a 40+ year old man like the GTR, Fail #4.

Everything about this car was a total failure.
Wait, a GTR is appealing to 40+ year old men? Not this one. Ugly, teenage looking car. At least the Zupra is a smaller car, the GTR is a 4K pound, huge thing.
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