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      03-08-2020, 08:38 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
Just imagine the massive depreciation on this thing. The $217k doesn't include taxes that would be another $14k or so.
They donít depreciate that much as people think. As someone who has owned 10 Porsches (4 911s, 2 Caymans, and 4 MacanS) if you go crazy on custom options it will hurt, but if youíre reasonable they do hold value better than just about anything. The cheapest 2017 Turbo S on Cargurus with 18k miles has an asking of 140k. Itís new msrp was 175k. That car at 4 years old has barely lost any money. On the flip side, a 2017 turbo S with a 220 sticker is now selling for 175k used. So again very little depreciation over 4 years. What people forget is that prices of older cars are holding steady and new car prices have skyrocketed making the used market more stable.
Now Mclarens depreciate. A 400k 720S in the first year will lose about 150-200k.
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      03-08-2020, 08:46 AM   #46
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That new front end is a pretty large step back from previous models. Honestly it looks like shit, prior models were perfection.
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      03-08-2020, 02:55 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
They donít depreciate that much as people think. As someone who has owned 10 Porsches (4 911s, 2 Caymans, and 4 MacanS) if you go crazy on custom options it will hurt, but if youíre reasonable they do hold value better than just about anything. The cheapest 2017 Turbo S on Cargurus with 18k miles has an asking of 140k. Itís new msrp was 175k. That car at 4 years old has barely lost any money. On the flip side, a 2017 turbo S with a 220 sticker is now selling for 175k used. So again very little depreciation over 4 years. What people forget is that prices of older cars are holding steady and new car prices have skyrocketed making the used market more stable.
Now Mclarens depreciate. A 400k 720S in the first year will lose about 150-200k.
The 991.2 Turbo S has an MSRP of $188,100 without ADM. Please quote your source for 175k.

A 720S does not cost 400K. It's approximately 290k.

That's like saying a 260 K (loaded with options) Turbo S can be had for 139k.
See what I did there.

You're taking a fully loaded 720 S with every conceivable option and using a special discounted Turbo S (the 175K version ), with zero options and zero ADM for your comparison. Real objective

Last edited by Topspeed; 03-08-2020 at 03:25 PM..
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      03-08-2020, 03:01 PM   #48
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Is anyone here buying a 911 turbo? I can't afford it at this time. A M2 CS will have to suffice.
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      03-08-2020, 03:05 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspeed View Post
A 720S does not cost 400K. It's approximately 290k.

That's like saying a 260 K (loaded with options) Turbo S can be had for 139k.
See what I did there.
991.2 Turbo S base price was about $191k. 992 911 Turbo S base price is now $204k. You will have to find a 2016 model year Turbo S or 2015 to get a price of 139k.
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      03-08-2020, 03:09 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
991.2 Turbo S base price was about $191k. 992 911 Turbo S base price is now $204k. You will have to find a 2016 model year Turbo S or 2015 to get a price of 139k.
Quite a few 2017 991.2 Turbo S models for 139 on Autotrader.com.
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      03-08-2020, 03:13 PM   #51
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Porsche homers are annoying. Cheapest listed 720s is $229k. 80% retention for 2 years is about the same as any competition.
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      03-08-2020, 03:20 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Porsche homers are annoying. Cheapest listed 720s is $229k. 80% retention for 2 years is about the same as any competition.
Precisely what I've been trying to say.
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      03-08-2020, 03:31 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspeed View Post
Quite a few 2017 991.2 Turbo S models for 139 on Autotrader.com.
Yes you are right topspeed. I'm seeing $139k on Carfax for 2017 Turbo S, multiple cars. Original MSRP with options had to be at least $200k, so depreciation of at least 30% since these cars came out in 2016. So essentially 30% depreciation in four years. From what I read, there is more of a supply of 911 Turbos than GT3's. Others have mentioned that you need to be a VIP customer to secure a new GT3 allocation.
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      03-08-2020, 03:33 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM33 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspeed View Post
Quite a few 2017 991.2 Turbo S models for 139 on Autotrader.com.
Yes you are right topspeed. I'm seeing $139k on Carfax for 2017 Turbo S, multiple cars. Original MSRP with options had to be at least $200k, so depreciation of at least 30% since these cars came out in 2016. So essentially 30% depreciation in four years. From what I read, there is more of a supply of 911 Turbos than GT3's. Others have mentioned that you need to be a VIP customer to secure a new GT3 allocation.
Well that, or pay a stupid markup.
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      03-09-2020, 03:31 AM   #55
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did a quick ebay search. 991 turbos and the 720s are following similar depreciation curves. makes sense as neither is limited. The mclaren however, like most exotics, is very mileage sensitive. Non-GT 911s in general are not as mileage sensitive.

2018 720s - msrp 300k - selling for 230k and has 6500 miles. (25% depreciation / 70k loss / 2 years)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-Porsch...MAAOSwFqZeY7sM

2019 720s - msrp 350k - selling for 260k and has 6000 miles (25% depreciation / 90k loss / 1 year)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-McLare...wAAOSwfEJeVO~e

2018 991 turbo - msrp 220k - selling for 170k and has 13000 miles. (23% / 50k / 2 years)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-McLare...8AAOSw4PBeR8pR

you are paying for the exotic experience, doors going up, engine on display behind your head, and paparazzi treatment when you get a 720s. Because pretty much every lay person will ignore a 911 when a mclaren/lambo/ferrari is around. This can be a good and bad thing.

Personally i'm over it.
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Last edited by Humdizzle; 03-09-2020 at 03:40 AM..
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      03-09-2020, 07:18 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
did a quick ebay search. 991 turbos and the 720s are following similar depreciation curves. makes sense as neither is limited. The mclaren however, like most exotics, is very mileage sensitive. Non-GT 911s in general are not as mileage sensitive.

2018 720s - msrp 300k - selling for 230k and has 6500 miles. (25% depreciation / 70k loss / 2 years)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-Porsch...MAAOSwFqZeY7sM

2019 720s - msrp 350k - selling for 260k and has 6000 miles (25% depreciation / 90k loss / 1 year)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-McLare...wAAOSwfEJeVO~e

2018 991 turbo - msrp 220k - selling for 170k and has 13000 miles. (23% / 50k / 2 years)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-McLare...8AAOSw4PBeR8pR

you are paying for the exotic experience, doors going up, engine on display behind your head, and paparazzi treatment when you get a 720s. Because pretty much every lay person will ignore a 911 when a mclaren/lambo/ferrari is around. This can be a good and bad thing.

Personally i'm over it.
My dream attainable car purchase has always been a Porsche (next to an M). Narrowed it down to either a 981 Spyder or a higher mileage 997.1 GT3. It would be a big jump from an M, and still debating whether one of those is worth double what my Z4M and E36 M3 cost combined (E92 M3 would stay).

My question is, what would you replace your Ferrari with that comes even close to its character? Reason I ask is because for the same price as those cars I mentioned, you could get an earlier Gallardo, but the attention might get annoying when you're just trying to go out and have fun. For what it's worth, I think you have one of the coolest fleets out there.

My buddy has an F430 and it's pretty amazing to see how much attention that thing gets in a place like South Carolina. It's all been positive though.
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      03-09-2020, 08:13 AM   #57
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i couldn't imagine owning an exotic, just eyeballs on you everywhere.
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      03-09-2020, 08:20 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
i couldn't imagine owning an exotic, just eyeballs on you everywhere.
Not to mention the high end maintenance costs when something goes wrong. I think a high end 911 is about as exotic as a car that I would buy. I would worry about Ferrari and Lamborghini maintenance costs.
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      03-09-2020, 08:25 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
Not to mention the high end maintenance costs when something goes wrong. I think a high end 911 is about as exotic as a car that I would buy. I would worry about Ferrari and Lamborghini maintenance costs.
So I hear you, but really if you can afford an exotic then you should be able to maintain it too.
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      03-09-2020, 08:26 AM   #60
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So I hear you, but really if you can afford an exotic then you should be able to maintain it too.
You can't afford it if you can't afford the maintenance.
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      03-09-2020, 08:29 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
You can't afford it if you can't afford the maintenance.
It's kind of like owning a private plane, horses or boats. My buddy loves to fly, he bought a 172 for about $40K, between hanger fees, upgrades and maintenance the purchase price was nothing. Hell, he put in autopilot and if I recall it was about $20K.
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      03-09-2020, 09:28 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
My dream attainable car purchase has always been a Porsche (next to an M). Narrowed it down to either a 981 Spyder or a higher mileage 997.1 GT3. It would be a big jump from an M, and still debating whether one of those is worth double what my Z4M and E36 M3 cost combined (E92 M3 would stay).

My question is, what would you replace your Ferrari with that comes even close to its character? Reason I ask is because for the same price as those cars I mentioned, you could get an earlier Gallardo, but the attention might get annoying when you're just trying to go out and have fun. For what it's worth, I think you have one of the coolest fleets out there.

My buddy has an F430 and it's pretty amazing to see how much attention that thing gets in a place like South Carolina. It's all been positive though.
I plan to go with a 991.2 gt3 manual. Still NA with 9000rpm. And just as fast. Only thing I'd have to give up is the v8 sound and torque. And like some of the other guys said maintenance costs can get scary with a 10 year Ferrari compared with a new Porsche that still has remaining warranty. That and I don't feel guilty about adding miles to the Porsche. The Ferrari world is extremely mileage sensitive.

That said I'm glad for the Ferrari experience. But now that I've done it I'm ready for something more sensible.
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      03-09-2020, 09:52 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
I plan to go with a 991.2 gt3 manual. Still NA with 9000rpm. And just as fast. Only thing I'd have to give up is the v8 sound and torque. And like some of the other guys said maintenance costs can get scary with a 10 year Ferrari compared with a new Porsche that still has remaining warranty. That and I don't feel guilty about adding miles to the Porsche. The Ferrari world is extremely mileage sensitive.

That said I'm glad for the Ferrari experience. But now that I've done it I'm ready for something more sensible.
Good choice. This might be a discussion in another thread, but anyone else think the Porsche market is just strange? Maybe it's because I'm used to looking at cheaper cars that are not as collectible.

But it looks to me as if there's definitely very much an oversupply of GT cars and they just sit on the market. With Porsche not really limiting GT3/4 anymore, I wonder what that does to resale value. 911R is another example.
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      03-09-2020, 10:05 AM   #64
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It's not the GT cars that don't move in my experience it's the Turbo models. massive asking prices in line with GT cars nearly and there's always an absolute ton of them on the market.
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      03-09-2020, 10:28 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
[with the 720] you are paying for the exotic experience, doors going up...
I agree with your assessment, but personally I have a "no stupid (read: unconventional) doors" rule that would prevent me from considering a 720. I've spent enough time getting in/out Lamborghinis with their stupid doors to make this a steadfast policy. Just my $0.02.
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      03-09-2020, 02:23 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Good choice. This might be a discussion in another thread, but anyone else think the Porsche market is just strange? Maybe it's because I'm used to looking at cheaper cars that are not as collectible.

But it looks to me as if there's definitely very much an oversupply of GT cars and they just sit on the market. With Porsche not really limiting GT3/4 anymore, I wonder what that does to resale value. 911R is another example.
The Pcar market is unique, and i follow it very very closely for many years now as my drift away from bmw and towards a dedicated sports car has grown and im finally at a point where a second car dedicated for play is possible.

Now to your point on GT cars, ill only speak of 911s in this thread, but they are still very very limited production, but what you see is that there are many peps with hook ups that buy them as spec cars just to sell. And with the market over the past several years that may have been an OK strategy for some, but with 992 GT cars on the way the 991s will come down.
As for the R, well thats been a roller coaster if you were an original owner you are fine, but if you bought from an orig owner prior to the GT3 Touring being announced you are F-d!

Not Porsches fault that the public wanted the manual in the GT3 and anyone crazy enough to have paid 2x or 3x sticker to get the R was really foolish, but in the end Porsche did the right thing, they responded to a passionate market and released the Touring and its the nicest GT model available now!

Also consider this point, more collector/enthusiasts are looking at the 997 and earlier models now and that has an impact, while I luv the new GT cars, my Pcar will be air cooled and MT as it should be
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