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      05-18-2020, 12:45 PM   #1101
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Gross. Hopefully those payments can be shuffled to the end of their mortgages so no one loses their homes due to greedy banking practices.
Depends on the bank. Some did and some didn't. Important to read the fin print or ask unfortunately. I'm hearing forbearance is impacting people's credit now too and showing as late payments ins some cases now too, even though they all said at the start that it wouldn't...
That happened to my husband during Hurricane Katrina. His mortgage company called him and asked if we wanted to push back his payments. He is self employed & we weren't really sure how things were going to work out. Fast forward several months later when he went to buy something & they ran his credit. He had only decided to do one month forbearance & had a late mark over 30 on his credit. It took him forever to fight it.
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      05-29-2020, 06:06 PM   #1102
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I just received an email saying that my employer is targeting June 8th to start bringing office staff back, coinciding with the start of Phase 2 under the NY State guidelines for our region. Supervisors have the flexibility to let employees continue working from home if they have health concerns or family hardships, providing that they can be productive. My C-level executive will likely not object to me to continue WFH, although my current office setup is the definition of social distancing with only five people sharing an out-of-the-way three story building with no foot traffic so I''m not overly worried.

The grounds are still 100% closed to students and visitors until Phase 4 happens in July at the earliest, but at least there is an end to COVID-geddon on the horizon here as long as the curve stays flat.....
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      05-29-2020, 06:13 PM   #1103
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My wife goes back to the office June 8 as well. She said no lunch room / refrigerator / microwave / coffee and only 2 people in the elevator at a time in a 17 story office building. I anticipate hearing gripes ahead.
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      05-29-2020, 06:24 PM   #1104
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We're supposed to be going back to the office to work in July, even though there will be no students or faculty until mid-August. The only thing I can do in my university office that I can't do in my home office is catch this damn virus. That said, I have a good sized office to myself with a fridge, coffee maker, and microwave, so I can just lock myself in all day. Unless someone sees me come in, no one will know I'm back. Which makes it all that much sillier that I need to be back in the office in the first place.
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      05-30-2020, 05:39 AM   #1105
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I'm still at work as I have to physically be there since it's a chemical plant and we have some pretty nasty reactions going on. We have been busier than ever and I just had a $300K project approved.....so I guess they aren't too concerned about cash.

All the office people are at home indefinitely....and I like it. In fact, they have proven we can function like that as we were on a thin client system from the start.

But I enjoy not being bothered as much as I use to be. I actually get more done as there are less meetings I have to go up front for.
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      06-01-2020, 07:29 PM   #1106
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Crap just got real here...a layoff of over 15% of the support staff!!!!!
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      06-02-2020, 04:11 AM   #1107
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Crap just got real here...a layoff of over 15% of the support staff!!!!!
That sucks man. Hopefully it doesn't go any further and will come back quickly.
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      06-02-2020, 06:38 AM   #1108
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That sucks man. Hopefully it doesn't go any further and will come back quickly.
They claim that this should be it for a while. Honestly, they should have done something a few years ago, before they started a hiring frenzy for "assistant to the..." positions that bloated the payroll. It was not sustainable.....
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      06-02-2020, 07:26 AM   #1109
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Great little story here. Our company has been giving us "hazard pay" since we have been in a state of emergency. In April we received $300, in May we received an 8% hourly increase that ended on the 23rd. As most of you are well aware of how inconvenient wearing a mask all day (Some of us here are 8 hour shifts, most of the production employees are currently on 12's and then there are those like myself that work however many hours required to complete our tasks/projects.....now that I think about it, that would only be the maintenance guys and myself.) the production employees decided to have a protest over wearing face masks. Last week, the production employees got together and decided that since we are no longer getting the 8% pay increase, they were going to refuse to wear their masks. Makes sense, without the employees here to manufacture our wares, we would have no choice but to halt production until some form of resolution was reached. Yesterday morning at 5:00 a.m., all the production employees arrived at work to an already full parking lot. Upon entering the building, they were met by the plant manager, production manager and QA manager with enough temp labor to run our production lines. Oddly enough, all the employees adorned their face masks as soon as they entered the building and not a single word was said about a protest, wearing face masks or the lack of the 8% increase.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for rooting for the underdog, but at the same time; I also enjoy seeing people who try to force opposition get slapped with the reality of the business world. Which also raises the question in my mind, what's more important? Making yourself heard and feeling valued or joining the rest of the unemployed because you refuse to wear company mandated PPE because you are no longer getting "paid for wearing it."

Is it subjugation or is it upholding their end of the employee/employer relationship? As the 5S guru here, I often here, "That's not my job." In my opinion, as long as what we are asking doesn't break laws, if you are on payroll - you do what we ask to be done.....face mask and all regardless of a hazard pay increase. No one said thank you about getting a bonus, but it's funny how quickly people turn once you take that away.
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      06-02-2020, 08:51 AM   #1110
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As a production manager myself, I think the stance of the company initially was great with an 8% pay increase. None of my guys would complain about that. Shocked that they complained over a mask, they need to understand the repercussions if it is not adhered to. I.e. they wouldn't just be shutting down production if one were to get sick but they are also putting other families at risk.

I understand being a little angry over losing pay (that was given to them initially), yet following the same protocols. I would hope that the situation was explained to them initially and they weren't just stripped of it out of the blue.

A little shocked that they brought in enough temp lines to keep labor going. I am assuming keeping the production lines going for you all requires minimal training and skill. Line of work I am in is the complete opposite, skill set and being close to a master of that skill set is necessary. We wouldn't be able to fill our shop with temps and run without hiccups for even a day haha.

So at the end of the day, I understand their frustration. They also need to understand that we are at a 14% unemployment rate across the country and taking ones position for granted has such repercussions.
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      06-02-2020, 09:44 AM   #1111
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This is the problem with offering hazard pay. It goes away and people get pissed. Tough to get your way when there is double digit unemployment though.
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      06-02-2020, 11:15 AM   #1112
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Originally Posted by JP10 View Post
As a production manager myself, I think the stance of the company initially was great with an 8% pay increase. None of my guys would complain about that. Shocked that they complained over a mask, they need to understand the repercussions if it is not adhered to. I.e. they wouldn't just be shutting down production if one were to get sick but they are also putting other families at risk.

I understand being a little angry over losing pay (that was given to them initially), yet following the same protocols. I would hope that the situation was explained to them initially and they weren't just stripped of it out of the blue.

A little shocked that they brought in enough temp lines to keep labor going. I am assuming keeping the production lines going for you all requires minimal training and skill. Line of work I am in is the complete opposite, skill set and being close to a master of that skill set is necessary. We wouldn't be able to fill our shop with temps and run without hiccups for even a day haha.

So at the end of the day, I understand their frustration. They also need to understand that we are at a 14% unemployment rate across the country and taking ones position for granted has such repercussions.
Don't get me wrong, there requires some training and skill to do what the production employees do here, but the dynamic is pretty strange. Our maintenance guys do all change-overs and set the machines/line up for the operators. Anywhere else, that I have ever worked, the operators were responsible for everything on their machines aside from repair. Our maintenance guys do no form of building maintenance, that falls on me to outsource.

Back to the topic at hand, all the employees were communicated what they were being paid for, how they would be paid and when it would end. I suppose the frustration came from thinking they were getting paid to wear a mask; the increase ended yet the masks remain. At this point, it's PPE. I don't feel that I need to be compensated for being asked to wear the appropriate PPE. I already get compensated for that, it's called having a job and doing what is asked of my by my superiors. If I expect to remain gainfully employed, I don't question the policies, protocols and SOP's; I do what is asked....unless it's wrong, immoral or unethical.
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      06-02-2020, 11:23 AM   #1113
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Originally Posted by Now_Rudi View Post
Don't get me wrong, there requires some training and skill to do what the production employees do here, but the dynamic is pretty strange. Our maintenance guys do all change-overs and set the machines/line up for the operators. Anywhere else, that I have ever worked, the operators were responsible for everything on their machines aside from repair. Our maintenance guys do no form of building maintenance, that falls on me to outsource.

Back to the topic at hand, all the employees were communicated what they were being paid for, how they would be paid and when it would end. I suppose the frustration came from thinking they were getting paid to wear a mask; the increase ended yet the masks remain. At this point, it's PPE. I don't feel that I need to be compensated for being asked to wear the appropriate PPE. I already get compensated for that, it's called having a job and doing what is asked of my by my superiors. If I expect to remain gainfully employed, I don't question the policies, protocols and SOP's; I do what is asked....unless it's wrong, immoral or unethical.
That's the way it is here. We told them that Hazard Pay is already factored into the job as we work with some nasty stuff.

And since we are privately owned and run "lean"......we all wear different hats. But we listen to them. We had a scale up meeting last week for a trial process that is frankly out of the scope of the Engineering Controls of our facility.

I opposed it along with the operators as I didn't agree with it. So the company president backed off....and then eventually agreed.

I told him in private that he can't mandate Safety First if he doesn't follow his own words. that can kill morale very quickly!
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      06-02-2020, 11:27 AM   #1114
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Originally Posted by Now_Rudi View Post
Don't get me wrong, there requires some training and skill to do what the production employees do here, but the dynamic is pretty strange. Our maintenance guys do all change-overs and set the machines/line up for the operators. Anywhere else, that I have ever worked, the operators were responsible for everything on their machines aside from repair. Our maintenance guys do no form of building maintenance, that falls on me to outsource.

Back to the topic at hand, all the employees were communicated what they were being paid for, how they would be paid and when it would end. I suppose the frustration came from thinking they were getting paid to wear a mask; the increase ended yet the masks remain. At this point, it's PPE. I don't feel that I need to be compensated for being asked to wear the appropriate PPE. I already get compensated for that, it's called having a job and doing what is asked of my by my superiors. If I expect to remain gainfully employed, I don't question the policies, protocols and SOP's; I do what is asked....unless it's wrong, immoral or unethical.
Yeah, unfortunately I've seen more and more facilities go to this route. Where they have specific people to program the machines, and operators literally just hit the go button. Then in order to make a product change they need sign off by supervisors. It makes sense, but it's sad in the same nature. Takes the skill away from the operator that use to be needed in the past. From a production and quality stand point I completely understand, but from a stand point that appreciates skillful personnel I don't like it. We hold our personnel accountable for mistakes, and they're aware of this hence the mistakes are limited and usually small in nature.

In regards to the PPE I'm right there with you.
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      06-02-2020, 11:57 AM   #1115
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That's the way it is here. We told them that Hazard Pay is already factored into the job as we work with some nasty stuff.

And since we are privately owned and run "lean"......we all wear different hats. But we listen to them. We had a scale up meeting last week for a trial process that is frankly out of the scope of the Engineering Controls of our facility.

I opposed it along with the operators as I didn't agree with it. So the company president backed off....and then eventually agreed.

I told him in private that he can't mandate Safety First if he doesn't follow his own words. that can kill morale very quickly!
Morale is sketchy topic, especially when dealing with employees not in a professional setting/role. Many times it takes absolutely nothing to get negativity rolling and it's quite contagious. We deal with the same issues when it comes to safety. We just had our Safety Coordinator give up his position and no one here wants to take it. His safety team also dissolved and now no one wants to be on a safety team either. It's a sad state of affairs when people won't take an increase in pay to accept a little responsibility especially when it comes to safety.

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Originally Posted by JP10 View Post
Yeah, unfortunately I've seen more and more facilities go to this route. Where they have specific people to program the machines, and operators literally just hit the go button. Then in order to make a product change they need sign off by supervisors. It makes sense, but it's sad in the same nature. Takes the skill away from the operator that use to be needed in the past. From a production and quality stand point I completely understand, but from a stand point that appreciates skillful personnel I don't like it. We hold our personnel accountable for mistakes, and they're aware of this hence the mistakes are limited and usually small in nature.

In regards to the PPE I'm right there with you.
I agree with your stance on this completely. Labor is easy to find, skilled labor is not. We tend to be on the opposite end of the spectrum with accountability, sadly. I feel like this perpetuates the dumbing down of the workers and creates a "warm body" scenario for the work force. I personally would rather see an employee that knows every nut, bolt, swtich and sensor on a piece of equipment versus hearing them page maintenance over the PA every 30-45 minutes over trivial things. Our maintenance guys aren't the greatest either. They really don't like when I come out of the office with the Klein backpack I keep in my trunk. They like to talk a lot of shit about the office employees and don't like an office employee coming out on the floor to show them how to do something. For the most part they are all good guys though and I try to keep a good relationship with them, but a person can't help but notice the animosity.
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      06-02-2020, 01:58 PM   #1116
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We had a Zoom meeting with the head of our particular office on Friday. There are only about 45-50 people in our OKC office total.

No current timeline on going back to the office, but corporate has basically taken the stance of other big tech companies. If we don't feel comfortable, or are at risk, or have someone in our household at risk, we have already been told we can work from home through the end of the year.
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      06-02-2020, 02:37 PM   #1117
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I'm still at work as I have to physically be there since it's a chemical plant and we have some pretty nasty reactions going on. We have been busier than ever and I just had a $300K project approved.....so I guess they aren't too concerned about cash.

All the office people are at home indefinitely....and I like it. In fact, they have proven we can function like that as we were on a thin client system from the start.

But I enjoy not being bothered as much as I use to be. I actually get more done as there are less meetings I have to go up front for.
Complete opposite feeling where I am. While everything is a bit slower, every office worker has been back since beginning of May (with some precautions of course).

When I drove around Saturday night, nothing seems to have changed, it's like business as usual with some people wearing masks. I tell you, I drove through DT Greer last weekend and it was shoulder to shoulder everywhere.
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      06-02-2020, 03:52 PM   #1118
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I work in software development for a Fortune 500 fintech. We have always supported remote working - I already worked from home 50%+ of the time - so the transition was not too painful, relative to what others have had to go through. Although, I was accustomed to organizing my work to do my more collaborative / brainstorming / white-boarding type activities in person and my more solitary work at home. It has taken some adjustment to collaborate on complex technical topics entirely remotely, especially since our VPN can't handle too many video calls, but we have gotten better at it over the weeks.

The company has committed to not laying off any employees, although some contractors are being let go.

We have a meeting this week to learn what a return to the office will look like. It supposedly will be reopened for those who want to return some time in June. There has been talk of splitting all staff into Teams A & B where only the members of a given team are allowed on-site on a given day. There has also been mention of masks and temp checks. I also expect that the fitness center & cafeteria will remain closed.

Reuters reported that our HR head said that no one will be required to return to the office until there is a vaccine. Personally, I have no intention of returning before then.
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      06-03-2020, 05:10 AM   #1119
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Yeah, unfortunately I've seen more and more facilities go to this route. Where they have specific people to program the machines, and operators literally just hit the go button. Then in order to make a product change they need sign off by supervisors. It makes sense, but it's sad in the same nature. Takes the skill away from the operator that use to be needed in the past. From a production and quality stand point I completely understand, but from a stand point that appreciates skillful personnel I don't like it. We hold our personnel accountable for mistakes, and they're aware of this hence the mistakes are limited and usually small in nature.

In regards to the PPE I'm right there with you.
Unfortunately...that's my job. Automation.

Now there are just some processes you can't take "people" out of, but our organization looks at it as you free up their time to do other stuff.

It's a mixed bag. It's a big improvement over stuff that is repetitive and manual labor that requires no skill, but if not for some of our guys here that have ran these processes for more than 10 years...my job would be a lot harder.

An SOP is easy to follow in a perfect world....but most of the reactions in our chemistry have their little nuances which require employee interaction and experience from having seen every scenario. That stuff is particularly looked at as "Tribal Knowledge".

Some of that stuff you can't program into a DCS system.
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      06-03-2020, 05:17 AM   #1120
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Complete opposite feeling where I am. While everything is a bit slower, every office worker has been back since beginning of May (with some precautions of course).

When I drove around Saturday night, nothing seems to have changed, it's like business as usual with some people wearing masks. I tell you, I drove through DT Greer last weekend and it was shoulder to shoulder everywhere.

Yeah...last week in our Weekly Managers Safety Meeting, the EH&S guy brought up the fact that the numbers in SC infected rose considerably after Memorial Day.

I don't see as much traffic, but I'm coming down I-85 around 3:30 am in the morning. And going back home in the afternoons (North)...it's still a lot less than usual.

But then again...I have been trying to avoid as many people as possible as my wife has an Auto-immune Disorder.
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      06-03-2020, 12:54 PM   #1121
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...
We have a meeting this week to learn what a return to the office will look like. It supposedly will be reopened for those who want to return some time in June. There has been talk of splitting all staff into Teams A & B where only the members of a given team are allowed on-site on a given day. There has also been mention of masks and temp checks. I also expect that the fitness center & cafeteria will remain closed.

Reuters reported that our HR head said that no one will be required to return to the office until there is a vaccine. Personally, I have no intention of returning before then.
Following up on my comments above, we just today received an email detailing our "return to office" plan. I am including it below. "Team C" includes personnel who have continued to go to the office throughout the lockdown, such as security and other essential personnel such as those who oversee our data center. Some proprietary details have been removed & replaced with ellipses.
Team,

As we’ve previously shared, we’re evolving our... office space to reflect new standards and procedures designed to support your well-being and provide you peace of mind.  Today we’d like to share some information:

· what you can expect in your new office environment
· dates for split-shift schedules
· link to submit questions ahead of Thursday’s update call

First, we recognize that many employees will continue to work from home. That’s why we’ve designated all employees who are not on Team C (required to work in the office) as Team D (work from home) – because the decision to work in this new office environment is yours alone. Please do what’s right for you and your family.  In fact,  we  expect more  of you  will work from home for the time being.  

We’ve put together a  video  tour of the... main campus to help you visualize  what you can expect if you decide to work in the office. 

For employees who want to work in the office, we are rolling out a revised split-schedule  approach. Moving forward, Team A and B designations will be based on an individual’s desk location and employees will inform their manager if they want to move from Team D to Team A or B.

We're also limiting the amount of days that teams are in the office to Tuesday through Friday ONLY during their designated week on site. Only Team C colleagues will work on-site Mondays, while all others work from home. Everyone continues to work Monday through Friday.

Our phased approach to welcoming teams into the new office environment will follow this schedule:

Tuesday, June 16 – Team A people managers only
Tuesday, June 23 – Team B people managers only
Tuesday, June 30 – Team A staff
Tuesday, July 7 – Team B staff
Tuesday, July 14 – Team A staff
Tuesday, July 21 – Team B staff

If you would like to work in the new office environment, please talk to your manager so they can change your team designation to Team A or B. This is important for capacity planning and social distancing purposes. Remember, there is no rush to switch teams, but you must be on Team A or B to work in the office. In addition, just because it’s your Team’s week, doesn’t mean you have to come into the office each day.
...

REVISED TEAM ASSIGNMENTS: We created Team D and have automatically assigned anyone that’s been working remotely for the past month to this team. Additionally, split schedule team assignments are now based on your desk location and every desk is now designated as either an “A” desk or a “B” desk. If and when you decide to come into your office, you will need to work with your manager to update your team assignment to reflect your desk designation.

DESK ASSIGNMENTS: Everyone needs to work at their assigned desk. If you are assigned to a shared desk, you will need to work with your manager to create a schedule so you know when you can enter the office and use the desk. Multiple colleagues cannot use the same desk during the same week.

DAILY QUESTIONNAIRE: When it’s your assigned team’s week in the office, you will receive an email invitation to complete a questionnaire... If you aren’t coming into the office, you don’t need to respond. If you are coming in, submit the questionnaire before you depart for the office. Upon submission, you will receive confirmation if you are able to return to the office. As you walk into the office, have your confirmation ready to show Security. If you do not have your confirmation, you will be asked to fill out a paper questionnaire upon entering

TEMPERATURE SCANS:   Everyone entering the office will undergo a temperature check. Those with a temperature at or above  100.4°F/38°C  will be  required  to return home. 

MASKS:  Masks will be distributed each day in the lobby.  Everyone must wear a mask in the public areas of the building; however, they are not required at your desk.   While  personal masks  are not to be worn  inside the building,  you  may wear on your way into  and  out of the office.   

COMMON AREAS: Changes have been made to the common areas and conference rooms to maintain social distancing. Please pay close attention to the signage in these areas to help protect yourself and your fellow employees.   

OFFICE CLEANING:  Daily cleanings will continue with common  touch points  and conference rooms cleaned multiple times a day.  Every desk will be sanitized nightly, including  desktops, keyboard and mouse.  Weekly deep cleans will be performed between Team A/B shifts.  Hand sanitizer and non-toxic sanitization wipe dispensers will be provided throughout the office  so you can  sanitize  any surfaces.  
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      06-03-2020, 01:57 PM   #1122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelse92 View Post
Depends on the bank. Some did and some didn't. Important to read the fin print or ask unfortunately. I'm hearing forbearance is impacting people's credit now too and showing as late payments ins some cases now too, even though they all said at the start that it wouldn't...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebekahb View Post
That happened to my husband during Hurricane Katrina. His mortgage company called him and asked if we wanted to push back his payments. He is self employed & we weren't really sure how things were going to work out. Fast forward several months later when he went to buy something & they ran his credit. He had only decided to do one month forbearance & had a late mark over 30 on his credit. It took him forever to fight it.
THIS.

Everywhere there has been this advice that you can take advantage of forbearance programs. This advice typically comes with reassurances that it will NOT impact your credit. You have to look really hard to find out about the very real negative repercussions of going into a forbearance agreement.

DH and I lived this and narrowly avoided the repercussions, literally at the last moment. We own a rental property. We realized that our tenants could run into difficulty making rent. So we thought, let's see what the bank will do for us to proactively protect ourselves against that possibility, in turn allowing us to be more flexible with our tenants. We could cover the mortgage without getting in that rent, but it wouldn't be pleasant and we thought, why not defer the payments instead? All the advice out there says, Go For It! What could go wrong?

So we contacted that mortgage holder and entered into a forbearance agreement on the property. Reading the letter they mailed us, it did say that although payments would NOT be reported as late, the forbearance could be reported to the credit agencies. This spooked me, but DH said, but it won't affect our scores. I mean, what is there to a credit report besides your score? (Spoiler alert: A lot.) So we did it.

Fast forward to a few weeks later. We decided to refinance both houses to take advantage of the historically low interest rates. 3-1/8%. This would save us several hundred dollars in interest every month, which could instead go against principal. Let's do it! Everything was looking good & the process was moving along. We have a great mortgage loan officer who we have used numerous times. She pulled our credit; everything was peachy, as expected.

Somewhere along the way, DH thought, hey we should mention this forbearance on the rental property to her in case it's an issue... She didn't think it would be (despite decades of experience in the biz), but she was going to double check. A few days later, late in the day on a Friday, we start getting urgent texts & calls from her...

Turned out, the forbearance would be a BIG problem, if it were to show up on the credit report that the lenders would pull just before closing. We said, but our credit scores are fantastic! She said, doesn't matter; if the new lender sees that you requested a forbearance, that signals to them that you are having issues and may be a risky borrower. Not ONLY would this affect our refi of the rental property that was under forbearance, but it would prevent us from being able to refi our primary property as well. In fact, it would prevent us from getting any mortgage loan for 12 months, whether buying or refinancing.

It was a cluster. Our loan agent urged us to immediately contact the mortgage holder with which we had done the forbearance to see if it could be undone. Of course this was late on a Friday, and when we called we were told by the automated system that the wait time to talk to anyone in the "payment assistance" department was ~2 hours (because, Covid). Spent the weekend fretting (totally killed my fun as I was in the midst of car shopping & was keen on getting that extra money into the monthly numbers!).

We finally spoke to the bank on Monday. We learned that they report to the credit bureaus "on the 5th or 6th of the month" - this was on Monday, May 4th!!!

We were told they needed it in writing & we should send them an email... We did. They had also said it would take 24-48 hours to process said email... So I called them again as soon as we sent it. Without going into ALL the boring details, it took multiple calls, waiting hours for calls back, and demands to speak with a supervisor, but finally we had a supervisor promise to process our email/request that afternoon. We got a letter in the mail days later confirming cancellation of the agreement that was indeed dated the 4th... so we think we are golden. But we won't know with 100% certainty until the day we close on the refis.

TL;DR: DO NOT enter into a mortgage forebearance unless you really, really need the help and can live with the consequences (being unable to get a mortgage loan for ~12 months, if all goes perfectly).
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