BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
      05-28-2020, 05:40 PM   #1629
super51fan
Private First Class
113
Rep
177
Posts

Drives: F10 535i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Indianapolis

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflow View Post
Ehhh, the 4-banger in the Supra is likely underrated and the 3.7 in the Z is probably over rated, but we're talking 75 horsepower here, not like 15-25. I'm sure they have very similar acceleration numbers, but i'm guessing most of that comes down to transmission and the ZF 8-speed being god tier as far as autos go.

And quite frankly if you have two cars with identical acceleration numbers, i'd almost always rather have the one that shifts slower, as you know its pulling harder IN GEAR than the car that's making up time by shifting faster (that and i've never owned an automatic and don't intend to start any time soon.)

I'm not saying the Supra is a bad value. I'm saying for people who just want the best driving experience and don't have a lot of money to spend, taking a long hard look at a Z might be a wise move.
75 peak horsepower. Keyword is peak. Peak is important.

2.0 Supra makes more power than the 370z until roughly 5500-6000 rpm and makes more torque throughout the powerband. IN GEAR or not, the Supra pulls way harder down low at the RPMs you use the most thus feeling faster.

Of course the ZF8 is to credit for this. But the 370Z also has abysmal gearing that only makes the car fun on a track at redline.

I truly donít think 2.0 Supra is a good value either but my 6MT G37 was the most boring car I ever owned and was only a good driving experience on longer road trips which I donít think the 370z is as refined in that category.
Appreciate 0
      05-28-2020, 09:02 PM   #1630
Alfisti
Major
1299
Rep
1,445
Posts

Drives: 2013 X3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

No fucking way i'd take 370Z over a 2T Supra, you'd be stark raving mad unless the $$$ broke the bank.
Appreciate 1
      05-29-2020, 07:58 AM   #1631
heavyD^2
Major
heavyD^2's Avatar
Canada
1272
Rep
1,330
Posts

Drives: X3M Competition
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
I truly don’t think 2.0 Supra is a good value either but my 6MT G37 was the most boring car I ever owned and was only a good driving experience on longer road trips which I don’t think the 370z is as refined in that category.
I don't understand this sentiment at all. We are living in an era where a loaded Subaru WRX STI (still rocking 2004 tech) comes in over $40k, a Golf R (GTI with a hp bump and Haldex AWD) has a MSRP of $41k, and a FWD Civic Type R is $37k (extremely shoddy build quality). A BMW built RWD sports coupe in the same price ballpark as these sport compact cars based of entry level compact vehicles is a fantastic value.
Appreciate 2
Alfisti1299.00

      05-29-2020, 08:01 AM   #1632
super51fan
Private First Class
113
Rep
177
Posts

Drives: F10 535i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Indianapolis

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I don't understand this sentiment at all. We are living in an era where a loaded Subaru WRX STI still rocking 2004 tech comes in over $40k, a Golf R has a MSRP of $41k, and a FWD Civic Type R is $37k (extremely shoddy build quality). A BMW built RWD sports coupe in the same price ballpark as these sport compact cars based of entry level compact vehicles is a fantastic value.
I say that because you get so much more by paying $8k more to get the 3.0. And just because I don't think it is a good value, doesn't mean I don't see why someone would buy one.

Last edited by super51fan; 05-29-2020 at 08:14 AM..
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 09:44 AM   #1633
pikkagtr
Go Spurs Go
pikkagtr's Avatar
United_States
2757
Rep
2,418
Posts

Drives: 2018 AW F80
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (-1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
I say that because you get so much more by paying $8k more to get the 3.0. And just because I don't think it is a good value, doesn't mean I don't see why someone would buy one.
Supra premium is what 55$k with some options
There's exist a much better BMW sports coupe with a much superior inline 6 for a few grand more and it comes in manual
M2 comp
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 10:01 AM   #1634
super51fan
Private First Class
113
Rep
177
Posts

Drives: F10 535i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Indianapolis

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikkagtr View Post
Supra premium is what 55$k with some options
There's exist a much better BMW sports coupe with a much superior inline 6 for a few grand more and it comes in manual
M2 comp
We will agree to disagree on which car is better
Appreciate 1
JPM-317.00

      05-29-2020, 02:58 PM   #1635
OkieSnuffBox
Lieutenant
287
Rep
408
Posts

Drives: '13 135i
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: OKC, OK

iTrader: (0)

I'm shocked how many dealers are still asking well over MSRP for the 2020 Supra. A quick search of Autotrader shows more than 200 of them across country for sale under MSRP by thousands.
Appreciate 0
      05-29-2020, 05:01 PM   #1636
Moflow
Captain
Moflow's Avatar
United_States
980
Rep
673
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
75 peak horsepower. Keyword is peak. Peak is important.

2.0 Supra makes more power than the 370z until roughly 5500-6000 rpm and makes more torque throughout the powerband. IN GEAR or not, the Supra pulls way harder down low at the RPMs you use the most thus feeling faster.
I get that it has more torque, I just don't think you're correct about area under the curve (not that either of us could verify without back to back dyno runs on the same day, along with a bunch of math.) If we assume you're correct and the Z makes less power below 5500 RPM, you've still got 2000 RPM to work with between 5500 RPM and the Z's 7500 RPM redline. If you shift at redline, the Z drops from 7500 RPM to about 6000 RPM, at which point the car is still making more horsepower than the Supra would be at peak power. So while overall area under the curve may go either way, the area under the curve that actually matters during high performance driving is MUCH bigger on the Z car.

That said, between the transmission, the better torque and the lower peak power RPM, I'm sure the Supra would feel faster in day to day driving. But if you're driving the cars hard, the Z is going to pull harder in gear.

Obviously everyone drives differently and its totally fine to prefer one type of powerband over another. My personal preference when it comes to performance cars is to always place some sort of a premium on high RPM power, as I find that to be the most exciting part of the powerband. I also would never buy a supra by virtue of transmission. But hey, I could've bought a 370Z and I didn't even consider it for a second, so its not like you're totally wrong here either.
Appreciate 2
Biginboca1656.50

      06-04-2020, 09:46 PM   #1637
Grip Addict
///M Connoisseur
Grip Addict's Avatar
781
Rep
1,236
Posts

Drives: ///M3
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: PA

iTrader: (6)

__________________
Watch my >>> YouTube <<<
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2020, 10:04 PM   #1638
joyjoy22
Private
58
Rep
71
Posts

Drives: BMW M4 2014
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

The paddle shifters, carbon fiber trim, inside door handle, and some buttons and knobs are the same exact you get in a $200k+ M8 Competition. I thought that's pretty cool from a "Toyota."
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2020, 12:36 PM   #1639
clee1982
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
677
Rep
1,611
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW 540i xDrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
The DME for the X3 M/M4 M show the Supra in the image, S58 Supra coming?

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=12_2464
One can dream, but that would be hell of a car
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2020, 01:31 PM   #1640
super51fan
Private First Class
113
Rep
177
Posts

Drives: F10 535i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Indianapolis

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
One can dream, but that would be hell of a car
I am looking forward to what they do with the car. But, I hope they do something to differentiate itself from the rest of the BMW lineup instead of following in the footsteps on BMW's release cycle.
Appreciate 1
clee1982677.00

      06-05-2020, 01:49 PM   #1641
Funf6cyl
Banned
265
Rep
530
Posts

Drives: 6 cyl
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Synchronized

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
I'm shocked how many dealers are still asking well over MSRP for the 2020 Supra. A quick search of Autotrader shows more than 200 of them across country for sale under MSRP by thousands.
Any reasonable dealer is offering well under MSRP. Around 10-12% off plus Toyota is giving 3500 rebate on all 2020s. 58-60k sticker cars are selling for 46-49k plus tax/title.
Appreciate 1
clee1982677.00

      06-05-2020, 01:56 PM   #1642
super51fan
Private First Class
113
Rep
177
Posts

Drives: F10 535i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Indianapolis

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
Any reasonable dealer is offering well under MSRP. Around 10-12% off plus Toyota is giving 3500 rebate on all 2020s. 58-60k sticker cars are selling for 46-49k plus tax/title.
I think that is their point. Even though there are plenty of discounts on new 2020s, there are still psychos listing them for $70k+
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2020, 02:16 PM   #1643
F30ZHP
Major
F30ZHP's Avatar
United_States
865
Rep
1,333
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW 340i ZHP
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Claremont, CA

iTrader: (0)

I finally saw the new Supra on the road in my area the other day. It's not a bad looking car at all.
__________________

2018 Melbourne Red 340i ZHP
Previous BMW's:
2012 Le Mans Blue 335i Coupe / 1990 Alpine White M3
Appreciate 2
clee1982677.00

      06-06-2020, 08:04 AM   #1644
clee1982
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
677
Rep
1,611
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW 540i xDrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
One can dream, but that would be hell of a car
I am looking forward to what they do with the car. But, I hope they do something to differentiate itself from the rest of the BMW lineup instead of following in the footsteps on BMW's release cycle.
Well it's a shared platform with BMW parts hard for them not to follow, and I doubt BMW will allow them to jump on the gun in terms of new feature
Appreciate 0
      06-06-2020, 09:18 AM   #1645
Funf6cyl
Banned
265
Rep
530
Posts

Drives: 6 cyl
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Synchronized

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
I think that is their point. Even though there are plenty of discounts on new 2020s, there are still psychos listing them for $70k+
I didnít actually think dealers were still trying to pull that - have not seen any but I also stopped looking for one around January. I was going to add one with my Carrera T at the time but fling a different direction now.

I still like the Supra, and think for under 50K, itís a great car. There are def some areas I donít love but thereís good value there. I also wish it came with a manual.
Appreciate 1
JPM-317.00

      06-11-2020, 08:58 PM   #1646
super51fan
Private First Class
113
Rep
177
Posts

Drives: F10 535i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Indianapolis

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf6cyl View Post
I didnít actually think dealers were still trying to pull that - have not seen any but I also stopped looking for one around January. I was going to add one with my Carrera T at the time but fling a different direction now.

I still like the Supra, and think for under 50K, itís a great car. There are def some areas I donít love but thereís good value there. I also wish it came with a manual.
The crazy thing is that there still $70k+ Supras on AutoTrader.

For $50k it most definitely is a good car
Appreciate 0
      06-11-2020, 10:03 PM   #1647
Germanauto
Brigadier General
Germanauto's Avatar
United_States
4522
Rep
3,570
Posts

Drives: BMW, Lexus
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NW, SoCal

iTrader: (0)

I'm actually sort of considering the Supra for my next car. The price is quite reasonable, and the fact that it's mostly a BMW is a plus for me because you get German engineering, interior, and build quality. I enjoyed the Z4 30i I drove but found the steering to be a deal killer. It's very fast but totally dead and lacking in weight/tightness. I've heard the Supra is tuned to be more sportier overall.

However there are some drawbacks:

1) The Toyota badge and fact I'll have to go to a Toyota dealer. I've been accustomed to luxury brands and dealerships my entire life
2) Wind buffeting issues. I always drive with my windows open unless I'm on the highway
3) Lack of sunroof option

These will probably be deal killers for me.
__________________
Make BMW Great Again
Appreciate 0
      06-11-2020, 10:32 PM   #1648
yousefnjr
Colonel
1636
Rep
2,014
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4MR, 19 i3S, 20 X7
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
The DME for the X3 M/M4 M show the Supra in the image, S58 Supra coming?

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=12_2464
Hilarious, good find
__________________
H&R Coilovers | AFE Intake + Sound Generator | Stromung Cans | VT Engine Mounts | RE Trans Mounts | RE RSM's | Beisan Vanos Kit | Aero Skirts | VMR V803's | GTB Pedals | F10 M5 Knob | Alcantara Wheel | Black Kidneys | 4.10 Gears | CPI Stepped Headers | ESS Tune | DKF Catless S-Pipe | SS Brake Lines | AS SSK | CDV Delete
Appreciate 0
      06-12-2020, 07:26 AM   #1649
David70
Colonel
United_States
905
Rep
2,086
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Coupe - 13 Cadillac ATS
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I'm actually sort of considering the Supra for my next car. The price is quite reasonable, and the fact that it's mostly a BMW is a plus for me because you get German engineering, interior, and build quality. I enjoyed the Z4 30i I drove but found the steering to be a deal killer. It's very fast but totally dead and lacking in weight/tightness. I've heard the Supra is tuned to be more sportier overall.

However there are some drawbacks:

1) The Toyota badge and fact I'll have to go to a Toyota dealer. I've been accustomed to luxury brands and dealerships my entire life
2) Wind buffeting issues. I always drive with my windows open unless I'm on the highway
3) Lack of sunroof option

These will probably be deal killers for me.
Interesting about the badge and dealership. I think the "Toyota dealership" and the likely long term lower costs (parts/labor), actually make it a benefit to me. Maybe because you wouldn't keep it long enough to have to pay for these items?

I have a BMW weekend and Cadillac daily I find it interesting that there are tons of BMW independents all over town but when you look for independents that specialize in Asian and American brands there are very few, I think because many long term BMW owners leave the dealerships looking to less expensive options.
__________________
2006 Z4M Coupe - Stromung exhaust, ZHP knob, stubby antenna, clutch delay delete
Appreciate 0
      06-12-2020, 10:57 AM   #1650
super51fan
Private First Class
113
Rep
177
Posts

Drives: F10 535i
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Indianapolis

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
Well it's a shared platform with BMW parts hard for them not to follow, and I doubt BMW will allow them to jump on the gun in terms of new feature
I bring this to question because I think something has to be done to differentiate the car from the upcoming 2 series and M2 built on similar underpinnings. I know one is a 2 seater and the other a 2+2 but I still think they would compete in the same target market against the Cayman and in the same demographic.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:54 AM.




6post.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST