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View Poll Results: Would you rather?
Nissan Z 110 57.29%
Toyota Supra 82 42.71%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll

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      09-15-2020, 11:56 PM   #199
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Compared to the 370z.








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      09-16-2020, 01:25 AM   #200
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Since the poll is this vs the Supra, I like this way more than the Supra so far. Like another poster says, it feels like an honest car even if it’s still working with an older platform.

The rear end is down right nice imo. The front needs something, I’m just not sure what. Major props to Nissan for keeping the manual. I think this has a chance to be a great car. I hope they can find a way to make it lose a bit of weight and that they get the suspension and steering tuned nicely.

That being said, I still find myself eagerly awaiting the release of the next BRZ/86. If they can find a way to make the power delivery on that car linear (even if it’s still small HP) and make the interior slightly nicer, all while keep the razor sharp handling, that’s a winner in my book.

It will be interesting to see if/how Toyota responds to this Z.

Also props to the Japanese for still making fun sports cars.
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      09-16-2020, 01:28 AM   #201
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      09-16-2020, 01:31 AM   #202
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I love the Fairlady stamped on the rear. The rear of this looks nice.

I’ll keep my fingers crossed that the car is good.
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      09-16-2020, 03:39 AM   #203
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New supra is easily, one of the ugliest cars ever. What a horrible design.
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      09-16-2020, 06:12 AM   #204
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I will reserve judgement on exterior styling till I see one in person. I wish for a different shape/size of the front grill though.

Kudos for immediately starting with a Manual while "Automatic version is also in development." Right approach, they know their market.

I like the interior. And anyone else excited about a Tach reaching all the way to 8500? I know the redline is 7000, but looks like there may be room up there.

P.S. And why start with this hideous Yellow?? Show a nice beep blue or Gunmetal gray. Or even silver.
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      09-16-2020, 06:20 AM   #205
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its a bit bland, and i hate digital tachs.
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      09-16-2020, 06:34 AM   #206
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Looking at this again this morning and I'm still not warming up to it. Apart from not liking the front end opening, I just can't put my finger on what's bothering me about the design. Personally, I prefer the Supra, but still very glad to see cars like this exist
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      09-16-2020, 06:55 AM   #207
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The front end looks unfinished... and I hope it changes but only a little bit. With all these modern cars coming out with fake vents and over done bumpers this seems weird seeing a plain normal looking rectangular grille.

The rear half looks OK to me. The chrome accent piece along the roof line ties it together a bit, not a huge fan but I don't hate it.
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      09-16-2020, 07:09 AM   #208
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I'm a fan...especially considering that this isn't quite the finished product, yet. So they still have time to clean it up a bit. But I love the rear end and call me crazy, but I dig that front end, too.
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      09-16-2020, 07:19 AM   #209
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For the questions about why it can't be priced closer to the 10 year old (I think?) 370Z, while some amount of the components are carry overed, or off of other cars, they just spent millions on R&D, design, equipment and soon to be training to build the new model and now buyers have to pay for it. It's far cheaper to keep building what you have been doing for a decade, then they cut costs by using an existing engine and keeping the same chassis. There's a reason Toyota worked with BMW on their model, benefits being an inline 6, my guess a better chassis/suspension.

See the Charger/Challenger for an inexpensive V-8 that they know they can't redesign and come anywhere close to price of the existing cars, even if they reuse the suspension/chassis.

I think we will find that this car undercuts the Supra on price but not a huge amount and has a manual but the acceleration and handling will also be behind some amount.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...roto-revealed/

Nissan isn't discussing the chassis, leaving us to assume that it rides on the same rear-wheel-drive FM platform as before. It'll likely share suspension and brake components with the Infiniti Red Sport performance models. "The Z must have a strong connection between human and machine, like a dance partner," Tamura said, noting how the emotional aspects—driving feel, sound, and styling—are more important than objective performance here. We hope that's not an excuse for uncompetitive numbers, but Nissan is well aware of the other turbocharged 3.0-liter sports car coming out of Japan these days (well, by way of a BMW factory in Austria), the Toyota Supra.
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      09-16-2020, 07:24 AM   #210
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I couldn't vote on this. I wish there were a third category. I have an undecided opinion at this point. First, we have no clue on performance numbers.

Second, I do not see where design is overly compelling on either car. Last night during the reveal, I due to the brightness of the yellow Z I couldn't see the lines and creases in the car, it made it look bland. Photos have revealed those lines so I have to give the Z a slight nod on the exterior and interior. I don't like the Z's rear end though. The Supra is a hot mess all over on the outside but I like the interior since it's pretty much BMW. The Z had a nice clean interior and appeared to be well thought out and comfortable looking.

On performance, I like with the Supra, you know what you're getting is a BMW sweet turbo inline 6 with tuning potential. It sounds like the Z will get 400hp with turbo(s) so maybe even more tunable, who knows. Would also be good to know curb weight and weight distribution. From the long nose, it appears they put the engine behind the front wheels which will be good.

So I need more info to form an opinion.

I think if you're putting this, the Supra in a comparison, you have to include the M2. And the M2 wins hands down.
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      09-16-2020, 07:39 AM   #211
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For some reason, the front end looks like an unfinished render to me. I do like that the styling is much more subdued compared to the Q60 and even the Maxima. I was expecting overly aggressive, but it looks much more like a classic fun sports car.

I've been ragging on Nissan for a long time but I have to admit they won back a lot of points with me for the manual and non-aggressive styling.
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      09-16-2020, 07:55 AM   #212
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Agree with many sentiments here that the car looks unfinished. I know it's the Z "Proto" but the front bumper area looks like concept car stuff that's meant to be toned down for production. My other gripe is a lot of the body lines are unnecessary, just round out the front bumper and get rid of the creases, and round out the edges to the large grille so it's not so jarring. And tweak the side profile character lines and you have a winner.

When looking at it on my small phone screen I wasn't crazy about it, but after sleeping on it and viewing on my large monitor, I'm warming up to it. At least from initial impressions, it looks like Nissan gave half a crap about this one. I like it way better than the Supra, but I don't think I could choose between a manual transmission or an inline 6. I want both. In a Japanese car.

If the VR30 can sound remotely good without the Chewbacca roar sound that almost all V6s are known for, I might actually consider this car.

Final point. SUCH a missed opportunity to revive the 300zx badge. Come on, Nissan. You want to get people excited again? Just call it that. Same goes for you Mazda. Call your next rotary sports car the RX-7. Forget about the higher numbers = better cliche. Just do it.
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      09-16-2020, 07:59 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
I think if you're putting this, the Supra in a comparison, you have to include the M2. And the M2 wins hands down.
I like the M2 but far from a "wins hands down". If you want a automatic (by far most of the market), the Supra starts at $51k (in most almost all colors), Premium is $55k, and M2 auto is at $62k. This Z will likely be priced below the Supra so you could easily be talking about $15k discount compared to the M2.

Then with all of the discussions about design, there is little to talk about with the M2, it's a 2 series with changes, they didn't have much to figure out and a large part of the population can't even tell it is special.

Car and Driver comparison put them in them in this order -
1. GT350
2. Supra
3. Cayman
4. M2 Competition

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...he-718-cayman/

M2 - Highs: Monster engine, easy to live with, practical for everyday use.
Lows: Unreliable brakes, are we really still listing “soulless steering” here?
Verdict: The best car in BMW's lineup needs to be a better driving machine.

Supra - Highs: Playful in a way that few sports cars are, Toyota's tuning ensures it's still fun even when you're not driving stupid fast.
Lows: Snug-feeling cockpit, hard to see out of, it-came-from-beneath-the-sea styling.
Verdict: At $57,400, this Toyota is a screaming deal.
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      09-16-2020, 08:21 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
For the questions about why it can't be priced closer to the 10 year old (I think?) 370Z, while some amount of the components are carry overed, or off of other cars, they just spent millions on R&D, design, equipment and soon to be training to build the new model and now buyers have to pay for it. It's far cheaper to keep building what you have been doing for a decade, then they cut costs by using an existing engine and keeping the same chassis. There's a reason Toyota worked with BMW on their model, benefits being an inline 6, my guess a better chassis/suspension.

See the Charger/Challenger for an inexpensive V-8 that they know they can't redesign and come anywhere close to price of the existing cars, even if they reuse the suspension/chassis.

I think we will find that this car undercuts the Supra on price but not a huge amount and has a manual but the acceleration and handling will also be behind some amount.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...roto-revealed/

Nissan isn't discussing the chassis, leaving us to assume that it rides on the same rear-wheel-drive FM platform as before. It'll likely share suspension and brake components with the Infiniti Red Sport performance models. "The Z must have a strong connection between human and machine, like a dance partner," Tamura said, noting how the emotional aspects—driving feel, sound, and styling—are more important than objective performance here. We hope that's not an excuse for uncompetitive numbers, but Nissan is well aware of the other turbocharged 3.0-liter sports car coming out of Japan these days (well, by way of a BMW factory in Austria), the Toyota Supra.
Obviously redesigning a car isn't free or even cheap, which is why I used the Q50 for example and not a 370z.

Fun fact: All cars have to be designed and all cars have the design costs associated factored into their price
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      09-16-2020, 08:26 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
I like the M2 but far from a "wins hands down". If you want a automatic (by far most of the market), the Supra starts at $51k (in most almost all colors), Premium is $55k, and M2 auto is at $62k. This Z will likely be priced below the Supra so you could easily be talking about $15k discount compared to the M2.

Then with all of the discussions about design, there is little to talk about with the M2, it's a 2 series with changes, they didn't have much to figure out and a large part of the population can't even tell it is special.

Car and Driver comparison put them in them in this order -
1. GT350
2. Supra
3. Cayman
4. M2 Competition

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...he-718-cayman/

M2 - Highs: Monster engine, easy to live with, practical for everyday use.
Lows: Unreliable brakes, are we really still listing “soulless steering” here?
Verdict: The best car in BMW's lineup needs to be a better driving machine.

Supra - Highs: Playful in a way that few sports cars are, Toyota's tuning ensures it's still fun even when you're not driving stupid fast.
Lows: Snug-feeling cockpit, hard to see out of, it-came-from-beneath-the-sea styling.
Verdict: At $57,400, this Toyota is a screaming deal.
Assuming the Z is a year or two out, we will probably see the new M2 around that time which will most likely be much better than the current one is
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      09-16-2020, 09:02 AM   #216
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The tail lights are a very good modern interpretation of the tail lights from the 300zx. Not sure if that square opening on the front from what I believe you’d typically see on 240z’s with an aftermarket front bumper works here, though. And if only the cockpit was pushed back just a little more towards the rear....

I’d hope for some changes to the front at a minimum, but based on the digital reveal they had last night it sounds like this is pretty much how this car is going to look for production.


Last edited by Mingwan; 09-16-2020 at 09:10 AM..
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      09-16-2020, 09:45 AM   #217
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Other than the completely unstyled gigantic rectangle in the front, the overall design looks good. The side profile looks massively better than the current Z and the clean design looks better than the overstyled Supra IMO. I would take the Z over the Supra... primariy b/c they offer a manual transmission. That and the 400 hp twin turbo V6 will be very nice too.
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      09-16-2020, 09:59 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
Obviously redesigning a car isn't free or even cheap, which is why I used the Q50 for example and not a 370z.

Fun fact: All cars have to be designed and all cars have the design costs associated factored into their price
Fun fact: figure out your design, tooling, training, and R&D costs, pay for them over 5 years but continue production for 10 and the last 5 years the car is still profitable at a reduced price. This is a large part of why the 370z still has a base price of $30k but the new one will be priced significantly higher.

Same reason they continue to make the GTR at very low volumes and aren't in any rush to make a replacement. Original costs to make the existing one are paid for and they need another large money outlay to create a new one. Business case to do it is pretty poor when a new small SUV has many of the same costs but sells in massive volumes.
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Last edited by David70; 09-16-2020 at 10:09 AM..
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      09-16-2020, 10:14 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterZgo View Post
Other than the completely unstyled gigantic rectangle in the front, the overall design looks good. The side profile looks massively better than the current Z and the clean design looks better than the overstyled Supra IMO. I would take the Z over the Supra... primariy b/c they offer a manual transmission. That and the 400 hp twin turbo V6 will be very nice too.
Keep in mind, that side profile picture is looking at a slammed new Z vs. what appears to be a lifted old Z, if anything, the old Z is some kid of low end base model suspension while the new one is the highest end (lowest) with the wheels filling the arches. That makes the picture kind of deceiving.

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      09-16-2020, 10:24 AM   #220
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The front looks horrible and the rear looks unfinished. Atleast it's a manual w/400hp. I hate to say it but the Supra design looks better, but the overall package sucks
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