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      02-05-2019, 11:10 AM   #23
DM_e92
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I can definitely feel where the OP is coming from. Having 2 BMW's with aftermarket warranties, I have spent close to $25,000 in repairs in the past 2 years with Princeton BMW and MT Laurel BMW in NJ. I do almost all my own work on my cars but I bought the AM warranties to curve mostly parts prices. I can tell you that BMW mechanics really don't know what they are doing. I have had repairs done only to have to return because they were not done correctly. Even had my V8 X5 at the dealer for more than 6 months because the A/C compressor they installed would not work, they eventually called someone from Germany to help fix it. My latest issue was my oil filter housing started leaking on my e92 335i after they replaced the gaskets less than a year ago. They actually tried to charge me $1000 to repair it again lmao. Luckily the parts warranty from BMW is 2 years plus I had complained about all the issues I've had in the past so they replaced it again for free. Its a shame I still see oil near the oil filter housing. I have really been contemplating not getting another BMW after owning 6 consecutive BMWs. So I feel where the OP is coming from.
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      02-05-2019, 12:07 PM   #24
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I'm with the OP, never had as many issues as he has but dear god do they complicate the simplest of tasks.

I find it way, way easier to just go to an indie and get the oil changed, the dealer takes forever and you need to go through like 5 stages of shit to get it done.
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      02-05-2019, 12:28 PM   #25
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It's not just BMW dealerships. Dealerships as a whole are pretty scandalous. They just get a worse rep because they charge three times the labor for the same work.

I never take my car to a dealership unless it's warranty/recall work.
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      02-05-2019, 12:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
I'm going to disagree with you. I've had excellent experience at both the Porsche and Mercedes dealerships I deal with. This has been for both warranty work and some after warranty stuff. They are expensive once you get out of warranty and I've found a good indie in my area for both so will move their after warranty. I'll happily pay a lot less and forgo the car wash, loaner and free coffee in the waiting room.

When I had my BMW I had crapy experience at the dealership near where I lived, since I was out of warranty it was off to the indie.....hate to say it but the treatment in the showroom and service at BMW was awful. I suspect it was dealer specific but one bad experience can turn you off a brand.
The things we are saying are really not all that different. I’m saying that two shitty experiences at a BMW dealer isn’t a good reason to stop buying BMW’s altogether, because there’s a good chance that you’ll end up with shitty service at another marque’s dealership. Which is not too different from your statement that the experience is dealer-specific.

The OP is in California, and there are plenty of California members chiming in...maybe one of you can give him a good reco
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      02-05-2019, 01:31 PM   #27
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Yeah, I wrote this when I was in a very strong rant mode, now have a little more perspective. It happened in SoCal (twice) and in Bay Area once. After probably 40+ indie mechanic visits (almost all neutral/good) this is the only multi-paragraph rant I have about oil changes. I think the next visit will be fine.

Now that I've cooled off, it's true I am expecting a dealership experience that's difficult with their incentives (echoing G35POPPEDMYCH). Small indie shops can vet every mechanic, keep low employee turnover, maximize quality, and the best don't have to upsell. Dealerships must answer to BMWNA, keep margins in line, and service high volumes, so they will have higher randomness and be worse at rare cases/situations. Just accept the system and find the best local one. Yelping is a little less effective since there are so many employees that a particular dealership's rating might not be enough, whereas it probably will be for a 3-mechanic shop.

Based on this thread I'm going to guess the experience is 80% individual dealer and 20% brand based, possibly % more brand-based for BMW due to the 2nd owner situation. Not sure how to quantify this, but JD Power does have a dealership service experience comparo (https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings...ience/2018/CSI), where Infiniti, Porsche, Audi, GM brands, and Lexus are high up, while BMW and MB are middle of the pack. There is a difference, but probably not nearly enough to switch brands over.

Some brands have more certainty, or more lenient policies. Lexus "2 visits" = not going to miss your warranty by 500 miles. Audi = 1 visit, so your experience is shortened. BMW and Mini are the *only* brands who don't transfer the maintenance warranty to 2nd owners, and I fell into this unlucky slot.

I strongly considered doing maintenance at indies and basically found no info on whether people got hassled on lease returns, because the situation is so rare. You need to be (1) second owner as a lease *takeover* (2) have an MY2015+ where maintenance plans stopped transferring. This leaves a window of leases that started July 2014-early 2015, and I couldn't find results on the forums. There's also another awkward situation where people may have 45K leases and only 36K covered under maintenance plan. You have 9K miles where you're out of warranty. The 36K didn't come into play until MY2017/July 2016, so only this year will we probably start hearing stories about this, and not very many people do 15K/yr leases either. Anyhow, it's unlikely I will be in this 2nd owner situation again with another BMW, and routine oil changes should go smoothly.

Last edited by EstorilM240; 02-05-2019 at 01:43 PM.
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      02-05-2019, 05:41 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
Wow, that was a long post. I kept scrolling and scrolling...

Anyway, I have good news for you that is also shitty at the same time. Your experience isn't a reason to give up BMW's if you like driving them. Because if you go to a different brand you'll get the same service
Yup. And what OP described is not limited to “luxury” brands either.
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      02-05-2019, 07:39 PM   #29
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What dealership, OP, because I haven't had any such problems with my bimmers at any of the dealerships I go to. I'm almost happy when service is coming because I get to test drive another car and tack on miles I'm not accountable for!
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      02-08-2019, 08:02 AM   #30
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I have an excellent relationship with BMW San Rafael and I have great respect for their service team. They do outstanding work.

It's critical for BMW owners to go out of our way to give our business to dealers and mechanics who do their jobs well, and take business from dealers and mechanics who cut corners. That's the only way we can get quality to improve. I drive forty miles, past several closer dealers, to bring my car to BMW San Rafael.
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      02-08-2019, 11:04 PM   #31
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In this area the BMW service facility and service department are one of the worst. The service department is poorly managed. The waiting area is crappy and you need get on to waiting list like 3 weeks ahead if you want to get a loaner ....
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      02-11-2019, 12:23 AM   #32
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Best experience: DIY if the car has surpassed the warranty timeframe/mileage. Otherwise, find a better more customer-friendly dealership even if it’s 50 miles away from you.
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      02-11-2019, 12:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
I stopped reading after the 8th paragraph but I haven't experienced anything close to what you experienced and I've been to 3 BMW service departments in the area.
I have 4 dealers that I go to for different reasons and they're all good. One is closest and always has loaner for GF, on furthest away is my Dinan shop and gets me appointments within a day, etc. One reason I stay with BMW is that I have such a good support network.
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      02-11-2019, 03:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
What dealership, OP, because I haven't had any such problems with my bimmers at any of the dealerships I go to. I'm almost happy when service is coming because I get to test drive another car and tack on miles I'm not accountable for!
I do sort of the same thing. I use the loaner system to try out different BMWs.
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      02-11-2019, 04:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by AnOldBiker View Post
This is why I only go there for warrantee work or recall work only. I do the rest, and if I can't, I have a local mechanic I can trust.
This. I am in the same boat. If you don't have to pay for it (i.e. warranty, recall) take it to the dealer. If you can do it yourself, do it at home. If it's something you can't do for yourself and it is out of warranty/not covered, find a reliable independent, BMW specialized mechanic to do it.

You should really never be paying for things out of pocket at a BMW Dealership, you're going to be paying way to much and honestly I know multiple different Indys where I live that do better work and are more knowledgeable about the nuances with most generations/models.
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      02-11-2019, 05:27 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Fritzer View Post
This. I am in the same boat. If you don't have to pay for it (i.e. warranty, recall) take it to the dealer. If you can do it yourself, do it at home. If it's something you can't do for yourself and it is out of warranty/not covered, find a reliable independent, BMW specialized mechanic to do it.

You should really never be paying for things out of pocket at a BMW Dealership, you're going to be paying way to much and honestly I know multiple different Indys where I live that do better work and are more knowledgeable about the nuances with most generations/models.

I think this is really location dependent. I always take my out of warranty BMW to the dealership for anything that I cannot or simply don't have time to do myself.

We have a very well rated independent here in town as well. The problem there is two fold:

1) Their labor rate is $100/hr. My local BMW dealership is $120/hr. So other than some serious, multi day job - the costs is close enough.

2) The independent doesn't offer a loaner car and this is super important to me, as I like to drop it off in the morning, take a loaner to work, and then return on the way home to pick it up.

All the work to date at my local dealership has been very good and I have had no complaints. This may not be true in all dealerships, obviously, but it is for me.
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      02-11-2019, 05:47 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
dont feed the negativity in this thread. people will blast you for being THE aggressor or angry one; yet you stated you have great interactions elsewhere...

ill try to keep this short...

they probably don't care that much about their jobs; and just mindless drones following protocol and procedure. they lack the ability to independently think on your level...this doesn't apply to all; some SA could break my car down into every individual bolt and put it back together...on top of that they have great attitudes. Its really just an individual basis. your anger and bitterness is because your expecting too much out of people.

i went to go test drive a brand spanking new ftype-r. i ask can i test drive.... zero questions; brings the temp plates and we are on the road...older guy in his 50s...dressed in his suspenders had a very "americana" vibe. went on a long drive; and he was a really cool guy. more than a 25 yr old age gap.

if people want to be mindless drones and do whatever...not be the best all the time...

so it goes.
say it aint so.

insert whatever you want here to make you feel better.

my bmw dealer 5 mins away is exactly as your describe; i drive almost an hour to go to morris or mt.laurel....why? because no point of fighting the system.

find a better dealership; and find out if its worth it for you. i drive an hour...worth it for me

dealers are independently owned and vary vastly.

the jag dealerships waiting area was right outside the bathroom, and had four chairs...imagine walking in there after dropping 125k on your ftype to have the service guy to get oil on your leather since all he services are there lower tier cars and those customers wouldnt even notice....pros and cons...balance


edit:::i'm for my car in the makeshift service area since the BMW delership is going a massive remodel...
guy comes to drop his car off...where is your key sir....your valet took it with the car....well sire all cars need their keys to be serviced so we can read it; with about 60% attitude... here is where I want to say....wellll bettttttttiiichhh than your valet shouldn't have taken it, you go get it miss attitude....but serenity now. and the guy went back out and got his key.
...so pro Mount Laurel?
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      02-11-2019, 07:15 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
2) The independent doesn't offer a loaner car and this is super important to me, as I like to drop it off in the morning, take a loaner to work, and then return on the way home to pick it up.
This is true. It definitely does depend on region I would imagine. The loaner deal is really big, luckily I have a 428i I can use when my car is in the shop. Plus it is fun getting a brand new F30 with 1,000 miles to play around with for a couple of days. The miss who owns the 428i got a 135i convertible loaner a couple years back, scratched my head on that one for sure. Was fun to drive though!

I think for me, I know the mechanics better at the Indy, have discussions with them. They really know their stuff and they don't do anything shady or overcharge. They are pretty much like all of us who post on the forums here, just guys who love the cars and know them well. It's nice when I hand the keys over to a group of guys who I trust. Having to wait and sit down, then have to talk to some service adviser who tries to charge me $190 for an air filter change just puts a bad taste in my mouth. Plus I would rather my money go into a small business rather than a dealership. Just personal preference I reckon.
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      02-12-2019, 10:50 AM   #39
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I had mark up at both dealers I went to but I asked them to lower the price and they dropped 25% off. They also always gave me a loaner and they detailed and replaced a couple dented and scuffed BMW badges without me asking at no charge. Basically I won't bad talk them. In my experience they cost more but they also have earned it by providing premium service. They run their service center like I Run my medical practice funny enough, premium but they are understanding and work with you on price.

I honestly think your problem is a California thing, not a BMW thing.
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      02-12-2019, 02:54 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMAC’s ‘Vert View Post
...so pro Mount Laurel?
yeah they are cool. plus the girls there aren't geriatric
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      02-13-2019, 02:52 AM   #41
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I'm in socal, I bought my car from Crevier BMW in Santa Ana. Its a large dealership, and the 2 times I have svc there it was a hassle, but they have a lot of loners and their 30 miles away from me.
Then I went to Monrovia BMW, about 10 mile away 50% I get a loner. My 1st svc adviser was a dick, so I complained. Service manager changed my adviser to Mat Clark. Way better experience.
I only go to the dealer when I have to, for recalls or if their running a good svc deal. Its the people that make or brake it 75% of the time.
You can go out to eat and have good experience or a bad 1 just because of the server. same food, same place.
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      02-13-2019, 04:39 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG View Post
My dealership has excellent service. I have never had a problem with them. I have been using BMW Seattle for more than ten years.
+1 I have been going to BMW Seattle since 2003 and to the very same SA too.

Now Back to OP:

If you have having all of these issues with dealers, take your car to an indy!

Leased car, lease return all of that stuff is a myth! You DO NOT need to service a leased car at a dealer what-so-ever!

Go to your beloved indy ans stop worrying about all of this non-sense that you are experiencing.

PS: Do you have experience with others???? There are some other brands I would never consider simply due to dealer experience! BMW has been very good to me so far after many many vehicles. .......Having said that, I kinda know what I am doing too when car goes in for service, especially when at my own expense.
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      02-13-2019, 04:58 PM   #43
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I must admit I haven't experienced the same issues that OP explained earlier. YMMV.
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      02-13-2019, 05:48 PM   #44
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I can see you have same crappy dealerships in USA as we in Canada.
Bmw Canada is aware of problems with dealers,they simply ignore it with sending generic response emails.

Brake flush on only one caliper, damaged and dirty white leather, leaky oil pan and lying car has no issues.

This is based on 3 dealers with car under warranty, also talked with other owners with light leather, same careless treatment.
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