Is this mechanic crazy?

[mjd41985]

Hi everybody! I’m new to the forum, but have been lurking around for a little bit. I now need some help......I have a 2013 650ix M sport pkg. I purchased a set of H&R lowering springs. Typically, I’d attempt to install springs myself, but I know the AWD makes this job a pain in the ass. One shop quoted me 1000 to install them, so I wanted to get a second quote. I went to a local shop where they “specialize” in BMW repairs. I asked them to give me a quote to install the springs. This is what they emailed me today.....”I’ve been doing some research on this and because your 6 has adaptive drive / edc / electronic ride height control there is no way for me to physically replace this system with anything other than factory. Even using lowering springs will cause the system to go into limp mode from what I’ve been told. You’ve got electronic steering, an electronic sway bar, etc. that all works in conjunction with this system so if you remove a vital part of it not only will the car go crazy but your dash will be lit up like a Christmas tree!” now I’ve read 100s of posts on this site and nobody has mentioned anything like this.... is this accurate or does this guy not have a true understanding of what I’m looking to do?

I apologize for the long post. I hope you guys can give me your opinions.

[Greekstyle]

I got a set of H&R lowering springs from ECS (Mfg Part # 50470-2) and installed them on my 2015 650i Xdrive Msport. I also have the adaptive suspension/steering. Never had a single issue. Everything functions just as stock. It took myself and my mechanic about 4.5 hours to do. It is not easy. Have to drop the axle on the fronts to get the shock/spring out and in the rear, you have to take apart the entire rear deck to get access to the bolts on top of the shock absorber.

I only paid half of what you were quoted but i also assisted and it was my friends shop. According to "the book", it is about 6-8 hours labor. $1,000 is on the higher side but if the shop is known for A+ work, it sure beats paying $750 for some lower end guy trying to "wing it"

[bravo261]

i had H&R springs installed in a non-x drive with adaptive for $300 and was fine.

coilovers cost me $600 with alignment at a higher-end shop and i don't get limp mode, but the restricted driving message until the edc gets coded out. limp mode means the car is limping...i'm talking about the standard driving mode is all you get, leaving sports and comfort modes unselectable

[thebmw]

Adaptive DRIVE and adaptive SUSPENSION are completely different things. OP says DRIVE. Poster says SUSPENSION.

[Flying Ace]

I've never installed springs myself, but I do know enough about the install.

1. AWD does not affect how the springs are installed.

2. There is no "ride height control" or anything related to this on your car or any BMW for that fact (unless you're talking about the brand new X5/X3 air suspension for off-road).

3. Adaptive Drive - What's he's talking about adaptive drive will be effected to a minor extent. Basically, the shock absorbers (dampers) in the car is electronically controlled for stiffness. But the springs are independent of the shocks as it relates to the physical part of the suspension. What he's saying is that he may have to unplug the sensors and control unit for the dynamic dampers, which my understanding is simply related to how the damper adjusted based on the ride selection such as sport or comfort and not related to any moving suspension pieces. As such, when you unplug it, and keep it unplugged, you'll get error codes on the car. However, you can code the error message out or there are springs and control units made to accommodate the adaptive drive electronic units to work with stiffer springs. Obviously that shop doesn't know what they're doing and have never done something like that. My suggestion is call a performance shop that specializes in BMWs and get their take on what's needed or not needed. Their advice may range from unplugging and coding the error message out (basically tricking the computer to think it's still plugged in with OEM parts) and potentially losing the dynamic damper feature to buying a more expensive aftermarket kit that reprograms the dynamic damper control unit.

Also, the 5-series is mechanically the same as the 6-series. There are way more people on that side of the forum than this side who likely have done this with a 5-series M Sport. Try asking this question here and they'll probably point you to the correct products regarding what I'm talking about: https://f10.5post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=192

[mjd41985]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

I've never installed springs myself, but I do know enough about the install.

1. AWD does not affect how the springs are installed.

2. There is no "ride height control" or anything related to this on your car or any BMW for that fact (unless you're talking about the brand new X5/X3 air suspension for off-road).

3. Adaptive Drive - What's he's talking about adaptive drive will be effected to a minor extent. Basically, the shock absorbers (dampers) in the car is electronically controlled for stiffness. But the springs are independent of the shocks as it relates to the physical part of the suspension. What he's saying is that he may have to unplug the sensors and control unit for the dynamic dampers, which my understanding is simply related to how the damper adjusted based on the ride selection such as sport or comfort and not related to any moving suspension pieces. As such, when you unplug it, and keep it unplugged, you'll get error codes on the car. However, you can code the error message out or there are springs and control units made to accommodate the adaptive drive electronic units to work with stiffer springs. Obviously that shop doesn't know what they're doing and have never done something like that. My suggestion is call a performance shop that specializes in BMWs and get their take on what's needed or not needed. Their advice may range from unplugging and coding the error message out (basically tricking the computer to think it's still plugged in with OEM parts) and potentially losing the dynamic damper feature to buying a more expensive aftermarket kit that reprograms the dynamic damper control unit.

Also, the 5-series is mechanically the same as the 6-series. There are way more people on that side of the forum than this side who likely have done this with a 5-series M Sport. Try asking this question here and they'll probably point you to the correct products regarding what I'm talking about: https://f10.5post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=192

This makes sense. Thank you!

[Opie55]

If the mechanic really means adaptive drive, that is not the shocks being controlled for stiffness. Adaptive drive is active sway bars. It's a relatively rare option.

[board57796]

I DIYd the springs on my F06 650i xDrive Gran Coupe. The AWD didn’t seem to make it any more difficult. Worst part was the interior removal.

https://www.6post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1553730

[Qsilver7]

I think a forum member posted a DIY on replacing the springs on his 2015 650iX. Check back to see if I've found the thread.

And the installer did conflate a lot of suspension options/set-ups etc...but that is easy to do because there are some differences based on how your f06/f12/f13 is optioned. The AWD V8s don't have electronic steering (at least here in the USA)...we have a PS reservoir and fluid...the RWD versions do have electronic steering.

Well never mind the edit....board57796 posted a link to his DIY while I was typing...perfect timing!

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by Opie55

If the mechanic really means adaptive drive, that is not the shocks being controlled for stiffness. Adaptive drive is active sway bars. It's a relatively rare option.

you're correct, I was incorrect. Even I was conflating multiple suspension features of the car.


Adaptive Drive is active sway bars, completely different from damper control which was call "DDC" dynamic damper control which is what I was describing as having being affected when you change the springs. Sway bars have nothing to do with spring change in your situation.

BMW themselves used 2 terminology for dynamic dampers. In the M cars they were always called "EDC" Electronic Damper Control, and in non-M cars they were traditionally called DDC. But the manual in recent non-M cars have the word "EDC" in it.

EDC and DDC effectively do the same thing (though the specs will be different depending on the car).

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by Qsilver7

I think a forum member posted a DIY on replacing the springs on his 2015 650iX. Check back to see if I've found the thread.

And the installer did conflate a lot of suspension options/set-ups etc...but that is easy to do because there are some differences based on how your f06/f12/f13 is optioned. The AWD V8s don't have electronic steering (at least here in the USA)...we have a PS reservoir and fluid...the RWD versions do have electronic steering.

Well never mind the edit....board57796 posted a link to his DIY while I was typing...perfect timing!

wtf...I thought all 6-series had hydraulic steering.

Well, to confirm, all M6s had hydraulic steering, it'll be the last M car to have this.

[mrjsmith88]

Originally Posted by mjd41985

Hi everybody! I’m new to the forum, but have been lurking around for a little bit. I now need some help......I have a 2013 650ix M sport pkg. I purchased a set of H&R lowering springs. Typically, I’d attempt to install springs myself, but I know the AWD makes this job a pain in the ass. One shop quoted me 1000 to install them, so I wanted to get a second quote. I went to a local shop where they “specialize” in BMW repairs. I asked them to give me a quote to install the springs. This is what they emailed me today.....”I’ve been doing some research on this and because your 6 has adaptive drive / edc / electronic ride height control there is no way for me to physically replace this system with anything other than factory. Even using lowering springs will cause the system to go into limp mode from what I’ve been told. You’ve got electronic steering, an electronic sway bar, etc. that all works in conjunction with this system so if you remove a vital part of it not only will the car go crazy but your dash will be lit up like a Christmas tree!” now I’ve read 100s of posts on this site and nobody has mentioned anything like this.... is this accurate or does this guy not have a true understanding of what I’m looking to do?

I apologize for the long post. I hope you guys can give me your opinions.

Depends on where you at I'm in NY, I have a 14 650 put H&r springs on I have edc system and I was charged 250 to put on the springs 1000$ is retarted to be honest!

[jjasonSU]

I got quotes to install (Non-X drive) $400 from a general customization shop
$600 from a BMW performance shop in Dallas.
But then remember you need an alignment so add on $150

[Qsilver7]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

wtf...I thought all 6-series had hydraulic steering.

Well, to confirm, all M6s had hydraulic steering, it'll be the last M car to have this.

I can't vouch for the 6cyl 6 series (because I haven't been following any of the 6 cyl BMW engines for over a decade)...but the V8 f06/f12/f13 with AWD have hydraulic steering...but the RWD V8s have the electronic steering.

You can clearly see the absence of the PS reservoir on the RWD f06/f12/f13 650i:

...whereas the AWD f06/f12/f13 650ix DOES have a PS reservoir:

[hugo_nz]

Originally Posted by Qsilver7

I can't vouch for the 6cyl 6 series (because I haven't been following any of the 6 cyl BMW engines for over a decade)...but the V8 f06/f12/f13 with AWD have hydraulic steering...but the RWD V8s have the electronic steering.

You can clearly see the absence of the PS reservoir on the RWD f06/f12/f13 650i:

...whereas the AWD f06/f12/f13 650ix DOES have a PS reservoir:

Cars with Adaptive Drive also have that reservoir (like mine. 650i, non xdrive but with adaptive drive)

[polar993]

I paid $650 to have my H&R VTF (height adjustable) springs installed on my F06 Alpina B6 GC....virtually the same as a 650i GC Xdrive. Removal of the backseat and rear deck to access the rear shock tower is one of the most time consuming process.

It took my mechanic 7 hours, being extra careful, and learning how to remove the the rear interior on the fly. He charged me for 6 hours, at $108/hr. Bear in mind, I live in Greenwich, CT, where's it's difficult to do anything on the cheap! My install was top notch though, and I've had no issues whatsoever. My car has all the suspension options available.

[Qsilver7]

Originally Posted by hugo_nz

Cars with Adaptive Drive also have that reservoir (like mine. 650i, non xdrive but with adaptive drive)

Thanks...will have to add this to my mental Rolodex.

[Giggs11]

So what is the final verdict on this post ??

[mjd41985]

The best quote I received was $900 (that includes an alignment). I will be having the springs done in addition to downpipes & a custom tune. I’m really looking fwd to the results.

[DerBosewicht]

Originally Posted by mjd41985

Hi everybody! I’m new to the forum, but have been lurking around for a little bit. I now need some help......I have a 2013 650ix M sport pkg. I purchased a set of H&R lowering springs. Typically, I’d attempt to install springs myself, but I know the AWD makes this job a pain in the ass. One shop quoted me 1000 to install them, so I wanted to get a second quote. I went to a local shop where they “specialize” in BMW repairs. I asked them to give me a quote to install the springs. This is what they emailed me today.....”I’ve been doing some research on this and because your 6 has adaptive drive / edc / electronic ride height control there is no way for me to physically replace this system with anything other than factory. Even using lowering springs will cause the system to go into limp mode from what I’ve been told. You’ve got electronic steering, an electronic sway bar, etc. that all works in conjunction with this system so if you remove a vital part of it not only will the car go crazy but your dash will be lit up like a Christmas tree!” now I’ve read 100s of posts on this site and nobody has mentioned anything like this.... is this accurate or does this guy not have a true understanding of what I’m looking to do?

I apologize for the long post. I hope you guys can give me your opinions.

Send Ptoscano911 a PM he can you direct you to one of the nicer installers in the NYC area, about a 3 hr drive to save about 600$, i would do it.... E46_keith is his IG appointments 9174356372 for appts. Dude is one of the best.

[mrjsmith88]

Originally Posted by DerBosewicht

Send Ptoscano911 a PM he can you direct you to one of the nicer installers in the NYC area, about a 3 hr drive to save about 600$, i would do it.... E46_keith is his IG appointments 9174356372 for appts. Dude is one of the best.

That's who I used my guy Keith you can't go wrong wit his suspension work

[Keysersoze819]

Originally Posted by mrjsmith88

That's who I used my guy Keith you can't go wrong wit his suspension work

Intrack in queens NY best around $300 with Xdrive and wheel alignment. 4 hours.