Advice? Reliability on 2013 650i GC

[Future6er]

Hello all, I haven't been on this site for the longest but now I need some help. I currently own a 2010 335i e92. Fast and sporty but it's time to upgrade to something more modern. One car I had in mind is within the 6 series range, and seems like the 650i is the only option available for me. This is probably one of the best designs by BMW and I would love to have this car. Only problem is that I mentioned this to the mechanics that work on my car. They said the engine for this car is one of the worst if not the worst engine made by BMW. They also mentioned that even the V10 engines would be a more reliable choice though that's probably over exaggerating. Any advice on this guys? Here's more info on the car

2013 650i Gran Coupe
76,000 miles
All packages included even w/ Individual
Black on black
No accidents

I basically want something more modern and faster than my 335i, any input is well appreciated

Many thanks, mike

[Walt White Coupe]

I'm no expert here but I own a 2013 650ix coupe. Same engine. Your mechanics are wrong. The engine that preceded the N63TU was the engine that they were talking about that had a lot of issues.

[Opie55]

The engine was far less reliable in 2012. By 2013 it had been upgraded to the N63TU. Just make sure it is in fact a TU engine. Easiest way to tell is the location of the main coolant filler cap. In the earlier N63 it was along the driver's fender near the front of the engine bay. On the N63TU it is at the far back driver's side corner near the firewall. The N63TU is relatively reliable. I have read most every thread on this forum for nearly 2 years, and there is no common engine problem theme, except the old N63. But, it is still a very complex engine in a very complex car. No question the 6 in the 640i is more reliable. So I think your mechanics are overstating things a bit. The real question is how much risk you are willing to take and how prepared you are to absorb a financial hit if something does happen. You are buying a $90,000 car for somewhere in the $20s. If you are doing that because a newer version with lower miles is a stretch for you then you may want to think about how you will pay for a $2,000 repair. But you only live once, and it's a first-world type of risk taking.

[hugo_nz]

Even with the original n63 there were some gems. Mine has been particularly trouble free. By contrast, and somewhat related my 7-series had the N62 TU of that generation and it was just as troublesome as the original so take the whole TU thing at face value. With BMW V8s it's always a bit of a gamble IMHO.

Have the codes read, check for smoke, give it a good test drive and check for an up to date service record.

[matth3wthao]

Recently got mine a little over a month ago.

2013 650xi GC 64k. N63TU One owner, clean title and maintenance record.

Very minor issue but it is extremely justifiable. My only problem was that I got the car for a deal because it was sitting on the lot at land rover Jaguar for a good 10 months. I bought it in the middle of December so in MN it was 10 degrees outside. Battery was shot and service was overdue, threw a misfire in one of the cylinders. They took it to BMW motorwerks, all that was needed was a new battery and regular sparkplug maintenance. I took it on an 800 mile road trip soon after and drove it like how it was designed. Flawless.

My only advice is be diligent about maintenance and check it thoroughly. These cars are like super models. They need attention all the time. Im extremely analytical and particular, so any rattle, wobble, or stutter gets attended to immediately.

[Walt White Coupe]

Also be aware of the extended warranty on the items on this list for 10 years and 120,000 miles for your engine.

[Future6er]

Originally Posted by Walt White Coupe

Also be aware of the extended warranty on the items on this list for 10 years and 120,000 miles for your engine.

Hi! Thanks for that picture but where can you access that?

[Future6er]

Originally Posted by matth3wthao

Recently got mine a little over a month ago.

2013 650xi GC 64k. N63TU One owner, clean title and maintenance record.

Very minor issue but it is extremely justifiable. My only problem was that I got the car for a deal because it was sitting on the lot at land rover Jaguar for a good 10 months. I bought it in the middle of December so in MN it was 10 degrees outside. Battery was shot and service was overdue, threw a misfire in one of the cylinders. They took it to BMW motorwerks, all that was needed was a new battery and regular sparkplug maintenance. I took it on an 800 mile road trip soon after and drove it like how it was designed. Flawless.

My only advice is be diligent about maintenance and check it thoroughly. These cars are like super models. They need attention all the time. Im extremely analytical and particular, so any rattle, wobble, or stutter gets attended to immediately.

I'm planning to purchase extended warranty of course, but I have yet to find the best choice for this car. Thank you for the information

[Future6er]

Originally Posted by Opie55

The engine was far less reliable in 2012. By 2013 it had been upgraded to the N63TU. Just make sure it is in fact a TU engine. Easiest way to tell is the location of the main coolant filler cap. In the earlier N63 it was along the driver's fender near the front of the engine bay. On the N63TU it is at the far back driver's side corner near the firewall. The N63TU is relatively reliable. I have read most every thread on this forum for nearly 2 years, and there is no common engine problem theme, except the old N63. But, it is still a very complex engine in a very complex car. No question the 6 in the 640i is more reliable. So I think your mechanics are overstating things a bit. The real question is how much risk you are willing to take and how prepared you are to absorb a financial hit if something does happen. You are buying a $90,000 car for somewhere in the $20s. If you are doing that because a newer version with lower miles is a stretch for you then you may want to think about how you will pay for a $2,000 repair. But you only live once, and it's a first-world type of risk taking.

I can try to contact the dealer but in the add it does claim to run 445 horsepower? I think that's the TU version isn't it? That's really good if it is I'm pretty sure it's the updated engine. I can't wait to purchase the vehicle!

[ezmaass]

Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Take that to heart.

I've owned two BMWs now with the N63TU for a total of 6 years so far. They've been problem free, but I've also (a) owned both from new, (b) put very little mileage on them, and (c) maintain / treat them very well, which includes driving them relatively gently. With a higher mileage car, you won't know exactly what you're getting into, and you need to be prepared.

V8s are not BMW's bread and butter, and to be fair, they have a well deserved reputation. The N63 (proceeding the N63TU) has an utterly horrendous reputation. It was so bad that BMW had to put out a massive package full of fixes for these cars. The N63TU has been much better, but it's not without issues. Remember that TU simply stands for "Technical Update" - it's essentially the same engine with some stuff reworked. In the case of the N63TU, that "some stuff" was quite extensive, but nonetheless it's an N63.

If you take a look, you'll find that the N63TU has also been wrapped up in several class action lawsuits. The summary? The hot-vee (turbos on the inside of the V) design of the engine causes excessive heat, causing damage to valve stems, excessive oil consumption, and in the worst case premature engine failure.

https://www.classaction.org/news/bmw...ss-action-says

How many cars will this effect? I don't know, but it does get more dangerous with age and mileage. If you were buying a used 650, I'd propose a few parameters:

- Find a lightly used one - preferably a single owner with lower mileage.

- Make sure it has a complete maintenance history.

- Strongly consider a warranty.

On that last one, I'm not normally a big fan of warranties. Self insuring (assuming you're financially able to do so) is normally always the smarter choice - the odds are stacked against you when it comes to warranties paying out more than their premiums. But in the case of a car with this engine, I'd probably more strongly consider the coverage if it's reasonable. I'm more than capable of absorbing a seized engine, but I wouldn't like it - and if I was going to own a 650 with higher mileage, this would be weighing on me.

My 2017 650xi GC currently has about 10k miles. I've decided I want to keep it longer term and just recently got it CPO'd even with very little mileage. Given the questionable track record, if you can do it for a reasonable price (cost me next to nothing in my case), I'd look to get coverage. It wouldn't be the $2k or $3k repair I'd be concerned about (which would be simple to hit on a car like this), but it would be the engine failure scenario that's the ugly risk lurking.

Consequently, I owned an 2007 N54 powered 335i back in the day. Owned it new and drove it about 89k miles. No turbo failures. No wastegate rattles/issues. No HPFP failures. All common boogeymen for this engine. Meanwhile, cars with less than half that mileage had gone through multiple of EACH. So, in some cases it's also luck of the draw... but I think, again, driving style and maintenance have something to do with it.

In conclusion, I'll repeat what I said earlier: hope for the best, but plan for the worst. If your plan can't absorb the worst case scenario, don't rely on hope - just buy a different car.

[Opie55]

Originally Posted by Future6er

I can try to contact the dealer but in the add it does claim to run 445 horsepower? I think that's the TU version isn't it? That's really good if it is I'm pretty sure it's the updated engine. I can't wait to purchase the vehicle!

Yes, 445 is a TU. I'm sure it is a TU.

[Walt White Coupe]

Originally Posted by Future6er

Hi! Thanks for that picture but where can you access that?

When I was getting my crankcase ventilation lines replaced (last item on list), I asked the Service Rep to give me a print out of all "extended" warranties on my car. From other research I knew about the other three but wanted to see what he would come up with.

If I were you, I'd ask whatever dealer you use to provide the information for your car.

If you Google the subject you can get more detail on these warranties. Here's the one for the fuel injectors:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...45274-9999.pdf

[Qsilver7]

Here's what the "TU" (technical update) in the N63TU that makes it slightly different than the first iteration N63 engine:

[Walt White Coupe]

I'd add that I think "slightly different" is an understatement.

[AccordTR]

Originally Posted by Qsilver7

Here's what the "TU" (technical update) in the N63TU that makes it slightly different than the first iteration N63 engine:

Slightly??? No not slightly. Significant changes.

[iamvanja]

I suggest you go test drive a 640i.
I originally wanted a 640i due to the reliability concerns with the V8, but went and test drove a 650i anyway since the price was similar. And despite people warning me that I will not even consider 640 after driving a 650, the opposite happened.
I at least expected i would get a sound out of that mighty v8, but it was so quiet, even in sport mode. Figured i will need to do an exhaust anyway. Extra power is certainly there, but in the 2 years of ownership I never missed power from the I-6. On top of that, 650i felt so top heavy! 640i feels more balanced.

The good night sleep over reliability plus better mileage that i get out of it is well worth it for me. I refuse to do an oil top off all the time and live in a constant fear over an engine failure, especially when i don't see any significant benefits.

Fully loaded 640i is a perfect 6er IMHO.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

[Future6er]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Take that to heart.

I've owned two BMWs now with the N63TU for a total of 6 years so far. They've been problem free, but I've also (a) owned both from new, (b) put very little mileage on them, and (c) maintain / treat them very well, which includes driving them relatively gently. With a higher mileage car, you won't know exactly what you're getting into, and you need to be prepared.

V8s are not BMW's bread and butter, and to be fair, they have a well deserved reputation. The N63 (proceeding the N63TU) has an utterly horrendous reputation. It was so bad that BMW had to put out a massive package full of fixes for these cars. The N63TU has been much better, but it's not without issues. Remember that TU simply stands for "Technical Update" - it's essentially the same engine with some stuff reworked. In the case of the N63TU, that "some stuff" was quite extensive, but nonetheless it's an N63.

If you take a look, you'll find that the N63TU has also been wrapped up in several class action lawsuits. The summary? The hot-vee (turbos on the inside of the V) design of the engine causes excessive heat, causing damage to valve stems, excessive oil consumption, and in the worst case premature engine failure.

https://www.classaction.org/news/bmw...ss-action-says

How many cars will this effect? I don't know, but it does get more dangerous with age and mileage. If you were buying a used 650, I'd propose a few parameters:

- Find a lightly used one - preferably a single owner with lower mileage.

- Make sure it has a complete maintenance history.

- Strongly consider a warranty.

On that last one, I'm not normally a big fan of warranties. Self insuring (assuming you're financially able to do so) is normally always the smarter choice - the odds are stacked against you when it comes to warranties paying out more than their premiums. But in the case of a car with this engine, I'd probably more strongly consider the coverage if it's reasonable. I'm more than capable of absorbing a seized engine, but I wouldn't like it - and if I was going to own a 650 with higher mileage, this would be weighing on me.

My 2017 650xi GC currently has about 10k miles. I've decided I want to keep it longer term and just recently got it CPO'd even with very little mileage. Given the questionable track record, if you can do it for a reasonable price (cost me next to nothing in my case), I'd look to get coverage. It wouldn't be the $2k or $3k repair I'd be concerned about (which would be simple to hit on a car like this), but it would be the engine failure scenario that's the ugly risk lurking.

Consequently, I owned an 2007 N54 powered 335i back in the day. Owned it new and drove it about 89k miles. No turbo failures. No wastegate rattles/issues. No HPFP failures. All common boogeymen for this engine. Meanwhile, cars with less than half that mileage had gone through multiple of EACH. So, in some cases it's also luck of the draw... but I think, again, driving style and maintenance have something to do with it.

In conclusion, I'll repeat what I said earlier: hope for the best, but plan for the worst. If your plan can't absorb the worst case scenario, don't rely on hope - just buy a different car.

Ahh I wish I had a bigger budget a 2017 would be a dream! But it's quite hard to find a 6 series with only one owner. I see most of them are second or third owner cars...i really appreciate the information, I'm currently researching on warranties to purchase if it comes to mind to buy a car like this. Such a shame to hear how bad an engine could be. I always thought these turbo v8s was a mayor upgrade from previous NA engines, which is why I'm surprised to hear the bash on these. Unfortunately most of the low mileages 6ers are nearly 30,000 And it's not in my budget. Plus with 30k you might as well opt for an M car you know? Hard hard choice but a dream it is, and I might just make the choice. I'm tired of my 335i tbh

[Future6er]

Originally Posted by Qsilver7

Here's what the "TU" (technical update) in the N63TU that makes it slightly different than the first iteration N63 engine:

Sounds like it had some big changes, but it's still problematic so I heard. I would like to know how a 340/440i stacks against

[Future6er]

Originally Posted by iamvanja

I suggest you go test drive a 640i.
I originally wanted a 640i due to the reliability concerns with the V8, but went and test drove a 650i anyway since the price was similar. And despite people warning me that I will not even consider 640 after driving a 650, the opposite happened.
I at least expected i would get a sound out of that mighty v8, but it was so quiet, even in sport mode. Figured i will need to do an exhaust anyway. Extra power is certainly there, but in the 2 years of ownership I never missed power from the I-6. On top of that, 650i felt so top heavy! 640i feels more balanced.

The good night sleep over reliability plus better mileage that i get out of it is well worth it for me. I refuse to do an oil top off all the time and live in a constant fear over an engine failure, especially when i don't see any significant benefits.

Fully loaded 640i is a perfect 6er IMHO.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

I actually do consider a 640i but this 650i literally has every single package included even the Individual package which meant some rich man probably ordered the car! If I could find one with a 640i GC I would buy as well. These cars look so much better than a 5 seri3/

[Yorkie36]

Buy a 650i mate it’s an absolute beast. Yeah the exhaust sounds crap but a few mods and it sounds amazing. 640i really doesn’t do the car justice, doesn’t sound as good and is lacking the grunt. I’ve owned 2 M3’s and a Z4m, the 650i is by far the best one out of the lot