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      02-24-2021, 02:14 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
Let’s face it. The only way any British car manufacturer can survive long term is by being wholly owned by a German giant. Sorry, my British fellows, but this is the truth.
Morgan is the exception to that rule

Predating Jaguar, predating Bentley, predating Aston Martin

always family run but now since 2 years now owned by an italian investment group.....
Oh boy
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      02-24-2021, 09:27 PM   #24
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I believe the statement by Jaguar is being misunderstood so I'll translate... Jaguar won't offer any vehicles that are ICE ONLY after 2025. Most Jaguars will still have a fuel door beyond 2025.
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      02-24-2021, 09:42 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier View Post
I believe the statement by Jaguar is being misunderstood so I'll translate... Jaguar won't offer any vehicles that are ICE ONLY after 2025. Most Jaguars will still have a fuel door beyond 2025.
I'm not so sure about that. The original article makes sure to use the words "pure electric" many times, assumedly referring to electric-only vehicles. They also mention thinning out the lineup. Right now Jaguar only offers 5 vehicles: XF, F-Type, F-Pace, E-Pace and I-Pace (XE and XJ were discontinued), and one of them is already an EV. Cutting the range further means that one EV platform could easily provide enough for the small amount of vehicles they are planning on. Their other half, LR, will be slower to adapt to an all EV lineup, with LR being the "electrified" brand, having 60% of the lineup by 2030 being full electric.

Recently Jag's talked about their future in going upmarket, and has mentioned bringing out a singular EV platform for all their vehicles that is bespoke to Jaguar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor1
The new brand strategy for Jaguar includes not replacing any of its current models when they reach the end of their production runs. The company will invest £2.5 billion ($3.48 billion at the current exchange rates) into EV tech and to develop a new vehicle architecture for these models. This platform will be exclusive to the Jaguar brand and won't be underneath future Land Rovers.
It seems that they know that they are living in the shadow of Land Rover who's enjoyed success where Jaguar hasn't, and hence this change is possibly in hopes of differentiating Jaguar from LR, and making the brand more unique.
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      02-25-2021, 06:57 AM   #26
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Jaguar is lost as a brand- putting an EV into their cars wouldn’t make them any more desirable.

Meanwhile Land Rover is doing great and just introduced a V8 Defender!
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      03-02-2021, 01:23 PM   #27
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JLR Cancels Future EV's Before Production

I have a feeling JLR may push back that 2025 deadline.

JLR Cancels Electric Road Rover, Jaguar J-Pace Likely Dead As Well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor1
Times are tough for Jaguar and Land Rover. The conglomerate's global sales were down 24 percent in 2020, with Jaguar's 37-percent decline being the biggest gut-punch of them all. We already reported about the new XJ sedan getting the ax, not to mention an overall Jaguar Land Rover production cut of 25 percent. Now, we're getting a better idea of the changes and frankly, it's a bit worrying.

During a recent investor call, JLR Chief Financial Officer Adrian Mardell said development of Jaguar vehicles for the EV-friendly MLA platform was over, according to Automotive News. The modular design was aimed at carrying everything from fully electric powertrains to internal-combustion power. It was the basis for the now-canceled XJ replacement, not to mention the long-awaited J-Pace SUV. There's been no official word on the J-Pace, but if development for MLA-based vehicles is kaput, it likely means the J-Pace is canceled before it even began.

Another casualty of the changes at JLR is the planned EV SUV from Land Rover, the so-called Road Rover. Curiously, while the MLA platform is dead at Jaguar it will live on with large Land Rover offerings, though it won't go the electric route. That's apparently being saved for a new Electrical Modular Architecture that will serve pure EV systems first and foremost. The platform will also carry hybrid powertrains, but it won't be designed for internal-combustion power alone.

To make this happen, JLR will reportedly write-off upwards of $1.4 billion in investments already made into the MLA platform and associated vehicles. Apparently, the automaker deemed it all too dated and not able to meet its company emissions needs. Perhaps most worrying for Jaguar, JLR is looking for partners to develop an electric platform for future Jaguars. That suggests they don't already have something cooking to replace the MLA plan, or if they do, they lack the funds to make it happen. Either way, it doesn't bode well for a brand pledging to be all-electric by 2025.

With Jaguar allegedly planning to go upscale as a direct competitor to Bentley and Aston Martin, the overall plan seems to be a significant reduction in both models offered and total production. About the only thing we can say for certain is that JLR's future – especially with regards to Jaguar – looks quite shaky at best.
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      03-02-2021, 05:32 PM   #28
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sad news; I still miss my F type sometimes......oh well, bought a new Range Rover Sport HST P400 on Saturday. :-)



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      03-03-2021, 07:14 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I have a feeling JLR may push back that 2025 deadline.

JLR Cancels Electric Road Rover, Jaguar J-Pace Likely Dead As Well
Yes, not surprising to me. There are use cases that EVs are simply not able to address today. Changing a brand’s lineup to all-electric excludes that brand from those use cases. It doesn’t make business sense to me.

I’m not making predictions, but it won’t surprise me to see the bold statements from the likes of California or GM get revised, delayed, or similar. The technology is simply not ready for a complete changeover from ICE.

Last edited by chassis; 03-03-2021 at 10:23 AM..
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      03-03-2021, 08:04 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I have a feeling JLR may push back that 2025 deadline.

JLR Cancels Electric Road Rover, Jaguar J-Pace Likely Dead As Well
This seems to confirm/restate what was said in the article posted above by IllSic_Design. Basically, Jaguar isn't building any more vehicles on the mixed-use MLA architecture. It's all EMA from here on out. So, to me, this is right inline with the plan to go all electric.

As for Land Rover, the loss of the "Road Rover" isn't surprising. This product was conceived when soft roaders were the thing. Now, everyone wants an off road vehicle again, so they likely realized they already had the line-up they needed (and that this abomination would probably do more harm than good).

Quote:
Originally Posted by chassis View Post
Yes, not surprising to me. There are use cases that EVs are simply not able to address today. Changing a brand’s lineup to all-electric excludes that brand from those use cases. It doesn’t make business sense to me.

I’m not making predictions, but it won’t surprise me to see the bold statement from the likes of California or GM get revised, delayed, or similar. The technology is simply not ready for a complete changeover from ICE.
I agree that some of these lines in the sand will be moved. It's a negotiation process, and these lines are really just aggressive demands.

However, when it comes to Jaguar, their business was already headed for the toilet, so they might as well go all in. Be it 2025, 2030, 2035, 2040 whatever, it's coming. And it is a big uphill battle to get investors to buy into a complete redux of a legacy vehicle corporation. You have ample manufacturing capacity and at least some semblance of a battery supply chain built up already which is more than some of the new players can say. In the free market, that alone is worth more than the flagging legacy product portfolio right now.
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      03-03-2021, 08:46 AM   #31
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I had a Fpace S for a 3 year lease and I wouldn't ever own a new vehicle from them again. Their service departments near me are terrible. I've received better service from every other car I've leased and the bmw/merc/toyota dealer I take my X3 to is massively better than either of the JLR services departments I mentioned. However, my parents have had nothing but JLR products for years and the dealership they take their stuff to in Florida is top tier.

My biggest issue with Jag in general is that their products are more expensive than their direct competition but you don't get anything more for that money. So in the end they feel overpriced. I still think their SUV and the Ftype in top trims have fantastic exteriors.
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      03-03-2021, 10:27 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I agree that some of these lines in the sand will be moved. It's a negotiation process, and these lines are really just aggressive demands.

However, when it comes to Jaguar, their business was already headed for the toilet, so they might as well go all in. Be it 2025, 2030, 2035, 2040 whatever, it's coming. And it is a big uphill battle to get investors to buy into a complete redux of a legacy vehicle corporation. You have ample manufacturing capacity and at least some semblance of a battery supply chain built up already which is more than some of the new players can say. In the free market, that alone is worth more than the flagging legacy product portfolio right now.
The investor perspective on Jaguar is interesting. The management of Jaguar would be better stewards of shareholder value in my view if they sold the brand to one of the majors, most likely French or German, who can either finance or share electric technology for Jaguar.

Financing Jaguar's product range makeover to EVs is not something I would invest in. Sell the brand and leverage someone else's investment.
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