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      04-20-2021, 10:53 AM   #1
Kolianovskyi
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640 or 650

Hi there!
Guys, I have 435ix 2014 with bm3 st2 93 now and it is pretty fast (considering weight and tune)...

but... I am in love with 6er bode for years and can't stop looking at that side. Even if my current 435 is fully serviced and does not need any money) with it 83k mi.

So, my question, if I go with 6er, what should I focus on, N55 or N63TU? I know all "benefits" of V8, I am looking at 2014-2015 cars, so would expect the latest revision and mileage no more than 63k mi. I drive 9-11k mi per year.

I want V8, scared, but want bigger engine to bigger body, hoping previous owner maintained it well.
I have N55 st 2 now with a smaller body, so I assume 640 would be much slower with same engine and heavier body, wouldn't it?

Give me your opinions and advices whether to stay with 435 for several years more and save money or get 640 and still looking at V8))) and go bananas with V8 and try luck.
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      04-20-2021, 02:22 PM   #2
Opie55
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You only live once. Get the V8. How much slower is an N55 in a heavier 6 - no idea but not a whole lot. If you get a '14 or '15 650 you will not get the latest revision of the V8, but you will get the revision that matters. You will get the N63TU, which changed a lot of major internal parts and other things and upped the hp. Later changes were smaller, like adding twin scroll turbos.
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      04-20-2021, 03:26 PM   #3
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650 no question. With mods the n63tu is a 600+ hp monster. Go with the fun factor.
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      04-20-2021, 03:39 PM   #4
Kolianovskyi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AccordTR View Post
650 no question. With mods the n63tu is a 600+ hp monster. Go with the fun factor.
Wouldn't it be a cash starving monster then?)
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      04-20-2021, 03:58 PM   #5
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I totaled my awesome 15 435i in February, actually the other lady totaled it. Bought a 640 17 I like but liked the 435i more. Way more fun to drive.
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      04-20-2021, 04:21 PM   #6
Kolianovskyi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos236 View Post
I totaled my awesome 15 435i in February, actually the other lady totaled it. Bought a 640 17 I like but liked the 435i more. Way more fun to drive.
Why do you like 435 more? Is it faster? Room?
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      04-20-2021, 06:57 PM   #7
AccordTR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolianovskyi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AccordTR View Post
650 no question. With mods the n63tu is a 600+ hp monster. Go with the fun factor.
Wouldn't it be a cash starving monster then?)
For less than $5k in mods you can easily add 150+ hp. That's cheap for a build trust me.
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      04-20-2021, 08:28 PM   #8
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As a 2017 650 owner I would go with the 640. Just too many problems.
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      04-20-2021, 10:42 PM   #9
Opie55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine650 View Post
As a 2017 650 owner I would go with the 640. Just too many problems.
Besides your uncommon vibration issue, what problems have you had?
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      04-20-2021, 10:49 PM   #10
Opie55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolianovskyi View Post
Why do you like 435 more? Is it faster? Room?
I'm sure Chaos will respond, but the 6 series is not a very nimble or agile car. It just depends on what you value. It feels big and heavy because it is big and heavy. But it's fast for a big and heavy car and is a great cruiser. And it looks fantastic. But if you come to a 6 series from a 3 series it will feel like you are driving an oil tanker. Just a very fast oil tanker.
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      04-20-2021, 10:58 PM   #11
Kolianovskyi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolianovskyi View Post
Why do you like 435 more? Is it faster? Room?
I'm sure Chaos will respond, but the 6 series is not a very nimble or agile car. It just depends on what you value. It feels big and heavy because it is big and heavy. But it's fast for a big and heavy car and is a great cruiser. And it looks fantastic. But if you come to a 6 series from a 3 series it will feel like you are driving an oil tanker. Just a very fast oil tanker.
Had another test drive of 2015 640 today. 61k mi. It is so slow comparing to my current car. And it has giant wheels, I think 20" with little to no tires. Can't imagine how to use such tires in Houston))).

And... sun roof does not open. Is it for all 6 series????

And I noted a different space between head lights and front bumper on a right (bigger) and left sides.
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      04-21-2021, 12:32 AM   #12
Wanwansuii
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I will warn you, buying the 6 series will be a compromise in several areas. Not necessarily in a bad way, but this platform is "different" compared to many other BMWs.

I came from a 2010 328i coupe M-Sport to a 2014 640i Gran Coupe M-Sport.

I will list the compromises below:

1.) Sunroof: this tilts open, but does not slide. It's due to the design of the car with its sloping roof (though I think this is a poor excuse given other brands with sloping roof designs have fully functional roofs)

2.) Getting in and out the car is a hassle due to the low step in height. It takes some time getting used to getting in and out of the car.

3.) Visibility: this is due to the unique design (especially in the Gran Coupe) and the low slung interior. However, you get used to it over time. Parking is not a problem if you have the surround view cameras/rear view camera. Without this option, parking would be HELL.

4.) Weight: driving this car compared to a 3 or 4 series is VERY different. This car is not light whatsoever, and you feel it driving around town. It does feel every bit of it 4,100+ Ibs. However, the car is quite quick (both 640i and 650i) for its weight and is a TANK on the highway. And surprisingly, the 640 gets decent fuel mileage (20 city/28-9 hwy/22-23 combined).

**side note: If you are looking at purchasing a 640i, I'd highly recommend putting a Stage 1 MHD tune, in combination with an XHP transmission tune. It REALLY wakes up the 640i and makes it so much more engaging to drive. I am surprised at how much different of a driving character these 2 tunes have made. My Stage 1 tune brought the car to 360hp & 395ft lbs of torque. The car feels like a small V8 rather than a 6. Plus the shifts are lightning quick. I can only imagine what a Stage 2 would do.

Good thing is, the 640 is known for its very good reliability (as most N55 powered BMWs are). I haven't had an mechanical issues in the 13,000 miles I have had on mine. I am prepared for the typical N55 issues (valve cover gasket/OFHG gasket, water pump) that may become issues in the next 50,000 miles.

If I were you, I would stick with the 640 since its less problematic, more efficient, and generally you can get some good power out of it with widely available tunes.

I would skip on the Active Cruise Control (in my opinion, it's not worth it and adds unnecessary weight to an already heavy car); skip the dynamic sway bars (adds vehicle weight and in my opinion numbs the driving experience, though it does provide good benefit on high speed curves); make sure the car has surround view cameras, and be careful of larger, low-profile tires. While the suspension is smooth, this car has a tendency to bottom out on potholes and bad pavement joints, and this is exasperated on large wheel/tire sizes.

Other than these issues, the car is general a good platform. Just takes a while getting used to its uniqueness.
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      04-21-2021, 01:32 AM   #13
Opie55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolianovskyi View Post
Had another test drive of 2015 640 today. 61k mi. It is so slow comparing to my current car. And it has giant wheels, I think 20" with little to no tires. Can't imagine how to use such tires in Houston))).

And... sun roof does not open. Is it for all 6 series????

And I noted a different space between head lights and front bumper on a right (bigger) and left sides.
It sounds like you liked the 6 series until you actually drove one. You don't seem like you love it enough to buy one. As for the wheels, the 20" wheels on the car you drove were optional. Mine came with them, but I found them to be too harsh, so since I bought mine used from a BMW dealer I had them swap the wheels for the standard 19". I like the ride better and I like the look better. You may also know there are usually some other differences between a 640 and a 650 besides the engine. Typically, but not always, a 640 has fewer options, and usually has a coarser grade of leather on the seats. The most basic 640s have totally different seats, but those are not too common. I agree with the post above about getting the overhead view camera. I don't even look out of my car to park. I just look at the screen.
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      04-21-2021, 07:12 AM   #14
TON-III
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I feel topic starters pain while I'm also comparing my ex-car ( 1,5 t.) to this 2 t. sprinting elephant every now and then ......

These 6 series are more good looking and attractive than they are to drive. And those hefty weighting 20" alloys do not help either. Still I've to confess that my first trial ride with 6 series car (640 Diesel RWD) did amuse me even I was on my way with my ex car. I was a bit disappointed early days how my 640 D X-Drive drives, now it's a bit better with more suitable tires/ light alloys/ new springs/ tuned gear box.

Quite many times those a bit stupid moves are the bests in the end - I'm nowadays happy with my car !
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      04-21-2021, 10:05 AM   #15
Kolianovskyi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlBowlly View Post
I would assume too big & you sit too low, it is not easy to drive & park, even l'm 6.2"! Plus when you make turns the rear of the car dances a little, you need to be carful not to put too much power, however l love the rarity of this style, interior/exterior & without any doubt l would not upgrade to the piggy style disproportionate 850ix.
I am 6'5'', sooo, I am sitting at the lowest position in any bmw)))
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      04-21-2021, 10:41 AM   #16
Kolianovskyi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TON-III View Post
I feel topic starters pain while I'm also comparing my ex-car ( 1,5 t.) to this 2 t. sprinting elephant every now and then ......

These 6 series are more good looking and attractive than they are to drive.
Quite many times those a bit stupid moves are the bests in the end - I'm nowadays happy with my car !
I can say if I skipped 4er and jumped right to 6er I would have less concerns right now))) But, you are right for 100% they look better than run.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie55 View Post
It sounds like you liked the 6 series until you actually drove one. You don't seem like you love it enough to buy one.
You may also know there are usually some other differences between a 640 and a 650 besides the engine.
Now, I am going to test drive 650 just to compare acceleration and that feeling with 640. And I am looking only for cars with these options: 2 doors, M package, comfort seats, led instrument cluster, would prefer black headliner and soft close for doors))). I do like a body and that wide armrest/tunnel between front seats. And I can't understand why they do not have an arm rest for rear seats but if you take off that middle pillow there would be a hole to a trunk or even nothing (like it was in a car yesterday, just tht fabric that trunk covered from inside).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanwansuii View Post
I will warn you, buying the 6 series will be a compromise in several areas. Not necessarily in a bad way, but this platform is "different" compared to many other BMWs.

I will list the compromises below:
1.) Sunroof: this tilts open, but does not slide. It's due to the design of the car with its sloping roof (though I think this is a poor excuse given other brands with sloping roof designs have fully functional roofs)
2.) Getting in and out the car is a hassle due to the low step in height. It takes some time getting used to getting in and out of the car.
3.) Visibility: this is due to the unique design (especially in the Gran Coupe) and the low slung interior. However, you get used to it over time. Parking is not a problem if you have the surround view cameras/rear view camera. Without this option, parking would be HELL.
4.) Weight: driving this car compared to a 3 or 4 series is VERY different. This car is not light whatsoever, and you feel it driving around town. It does feel every bit of it 4,100+ Ibs. However, the car is quite quick (both 640i and 650i) for its weight and is a TANK on the highway. And surprisingly, the 640 gets decent fuel mileage (20 city/28-9 hwy/22-23 combined).

**side note: If you are looking at purchasing a 640i, I'd highly recommend putting a Stage 1 MHD tune, in combination with an XHP transmission tune. It REALLY wakes up the 640i and makes it so much more engaging to drive. I am surprised at how much different of a driving character these 2 tunes have made. My Stage 1 tune brought the car to 360hp & 395ft lbs of torque. The car feels like a small V8 rather than a 6. Plus the shifts are lightning quick. I can only imagine what a Stage 2 would do.

Other than these issues, the car is general a good platform. Just takes a while getting used to its uniqueness.
Yes, I see your point. For me, as 6'5'', it is the same to get out of 2, 4 or 6 I use a body sill putting left hand on it))) My problem is I love with eyes but not a brain). I am pretty tall and slim, so bigger car's body looks more suitable and I am sitting surrounded with appropriate size (for my body) interior pars in 6er. In 4er I feel myself a little bit bigger than everything in a car)));

Pros:
- exterior;
- luxury interior;
- some new options and features (led cluster, soft close, m package, maybe line control);
- premium car.

Cons:
- heavy, poor acceleration (comparing to my current bm3 st 2);
- room inside, no space behind me)))) probably 2in or 5cm, in 4er i have like 4 in or 10 cm with same front comfort seats.
- sunroof(((, tilt is useless, I live in Texas and I use to drive all over the year with open roof and open side windows, literally each day unless raining.
- fear of bad luck with 650 or insufficient n55 for such body.

I can deal with acceleration by going the same way as I did for 435: charge pipe $230; downpipe $350; BM3 st 2 $0 for N55 and $600 for N63; plumb back BOV $200; FMIC $400, xHP st3 $0. So, ~$1200 and it will be running as fast as it can with stock turbo and fuel line...
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      04-21-2021, 10:52 AM   #17
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I usually say try the 640 and if you like it, get it.
Looks like you didn't like the 640 that much, so I'd try 650 and see if the thrill justifies the reliability concerns.
I liked the 640 a lot, but had to try 650, despite being concerned that i was going to like 650 too much to the point that I wouldn't even consider 640. Instead, opposite happened. On a day to day basis, I didn't see the difference in power that significant and the sound didn't charm me as I expected that it would. Got a loaded 640, added m6 mufflers and i am super happy!
I get an impression that you are looking for a smaller, lighter, and more nimble car than the 6 is. 6er is a grand tourer and it does that very well.
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      04-21-2021, 11:30 AM   #18
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Assuming you have ruled out a convertible, then you are only looking at the coupe if you want two doors. Yeah, the back seat is useless. I use mine in my convertible for adults who visit for tours around town occasionally, but those are short drives, and the driver and front passenger have to move their seats way forward. Putting an adult in the rear of a coupe might qualify as torture. The 6 is a very impractical car in many ways. But so are many enthusiast cars. When I got mine I said "this is a car with absolutely no reason to exist, and that's why I like it."
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      04-21-2021, 12:22 PM   #19
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Show me a coupe with its backseat useful.
In the nineties when I was in high school we had two door Integra's and no one sat in the rear.
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      04-21-2021, 12:58 PM   #20
Kolianovskyi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie55 View Post
Assuming you have ruled out a convertible, then you are only looking at the coupe if you want two doors. Yeah, the back seat is useless. I use mine in my convertible for adults who visit for tours around town occasionally, but those are short drives, and the driver and front passenger have to move their seats way forward. Putting an adult in the rear of a coupe might qualify as torture. The 6 is a very impractical car in many ways. But so are many enthusiast cars. When I got mine I said "this is a car with absolutely no reason to exist, and that's why I like it."
Frankly speaking, I do not like that soft top and considering limited number of colors available for 6er, I do not like white with black top or black with black. However, convertible might have more space above my head as I have little to no in 4er and like less 2in in 6er (because of roof that does not open so it is a little bit higher). I have two kids, 3,5yo and 1,5yo and I would want to put them on rear seats time to time.

So, 640 and all required mods on a top of it OR 650 (very limited number of cars available)?
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      04-21-2021, 01:07 PM   #21
Kolianovskyi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamvanja View Post
I usually say try the 640 and if you like it, get it.
Looks like you didn't like the 640 that much, so I'd try 650 and see if the thrill justifies the reliability concerns.
I liked the 640 a lot, but had to try 650, despite being concerned that i was going to like 650 too much to the point that I wouldn't even consider 640. Instead, opposite happened. On a day to day basis, I didn't see the difference in power that significant and the sound didn't charm me as I expected that it would. Got a loaded 640, added m6 mufflers and i am super happy!
I get an impression that you are looking for a smaller, lighter, and more nimble car than the 6 is. 6er is a grand tourer and it does that very well.
Will test 650 on Friday. However, that is 2013 and I do not want so old, low mileage, 41k but I am scary of that N63 (believe it might be 2014 or newer). Just to feel that V8.

For how long did you drive 650?
And your 640, do you drive alone most of the times?
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      04-21-2021, 01:22 PM   #22
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I test drove a 2014 640i and a 2015 550i. To be honest, I didn't see a huge difference between the acceleration in the v8 compared to the I6. But the power did feel smooth and quick, and the exhaust note in sport mode was nice.

I drove mostly alone in my 640i, and the engine tune has made this car a blast to drive.
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