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      Today, 02:28 PM   #45
Efthreeoh
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Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX View Post
Well that only makes sense if a car as ugly as the Leaf suddenly jumps $14,000 for no reason.

Meanwhile Tesla can't even keep up the demand for the Model 3 right now....with people waiting a year for their build.
I can order a Model 3 today and have it delivered to the East Coast in two (2) weeks. No one is waiting a year for a build.
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      Today, 02:42 PM   #46
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The only reason EVs have any market share is due to world-wide government incentives that artificially make a market for them.
And those incentives will remain, drive up production numbers, which will drive down the cost. It's a self driven cycle that will drive EV numbers through the roof until they're the whole market.
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      Today, 02:48 PM   #47
Efthreeoh
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The simple convenience and safety of my wife not ever going to a shitty gas station again is appealing. Plus the benefit of me not having to take her car to the gas station for her. Add in only needed infrequent brake jobs (with electronic brakes getting closer, just about no service requirements) and related OTA servicing.

To say that government incentives are the only appeal is supremely off the mark. TX has made it impossible to get the state incentive on a Tesla, yet the damn things are literally everywhere. Federal incentive on Teslas end soon and that will likely have minimal impact on their sales. The Model Y is going to further disrupt the German hold on SUV sales.
So the history of the EV market development went pretty much like this:

Early 1990's ... CARB mandated a certain amount of zero emission vehicles be sold in California by each manufacturer.

Mid-1990's ... GM introduced the EV-1 in California. Dumped the concept because there was no marketplace for EV's other than California.

Mid-2000's ... EV tax credits issued under US energy legislation in trade for carbon fuel industry wants. Carbon Credits invented by Al Gore.

EV marketplace dominated by rising Tesla, financially supported by federal tax credits and carbon credits sales to other corporations.

Go ask Henry Ford how much help he got from the Federal government to start the US automotive industry.
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      Today, 02:52 PM   #48
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And those incentives will remain, drive up production numbers, which will drive down the cost. It's a self driven cycle that will drive EV numbers through the roof until they're the whole market.
So you agree, the EV market was artificially created by Government and needs to be sustained by Government and politics.
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      Today, 03:01 PM   #49
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So you agree, the EV market was artificially created by Government and needs to be sustained by Government and politics.
I don't agree with that, no. I think EVs are the future and for good reason. They'd sell even without the government incentives, but certainly not as well.

Curious though. What do you have against EVs?
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      Today, 03:05 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
So you agree, the EV market was artificially created by Government and needs to be sustained by Government and politics.


Here we go...

There are so many industries with subsidies including oil, medicine, health care, coal, agriculture, it's not even a valid argument.
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      Today, 03:07 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I can order a Model 3 today and have it delivered to the East Coast in two (2) weeks. No one is waiting a year for a build.
Wow...I just read the other day that people are waiting 6 months to a year for their order. Maybe it was an older article....I'll try to find it

I'd still much rather have a used Model S over the Model 3 which I can get today if I wanted(or should I say had the money)

Regardless, the point is the market is still there and very much alive and not going away anytime soon
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      Today, 03:56 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
The only reason EVs have any market share is due to world-wide government incentives that artificially make a market for them.
Funny you should say that. What the world wide government incentives spent for EVs pale in comparison with what the U.S. have spent to incentivize the continued purchase and use of gasoline powered ICE cars.

I'm not a beatnik, but even at $4.xx per gallon we pay but a fraction of what other countries pay for gas, because we've already spent multiples of trillion dollars and thousands of U.S. lives for the privilege to pay less for a gallon of gas than milk (for some parts of the country, at least).

At the end of the day, the "incentives" to purchase EVs is a drop in the bucket by comparison.
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      Today, 04:11 PM   #53
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
So you agree, the EV market was artificially created by Government and needs to be sustained by Government and politics.


Here we go...

There are so many industries with subsidies including oil, medicine, health care, coal, agriculture, it's not even a valid argument.
Biodiesel too. Part of my pay relies on that.
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      Today, 04:29 PM   #54
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So you agree, the EV market was artificially created by Government and needs to be sustained by Government and politics.
was his statement too long to read until the end?
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      Today, 04:41 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Soterios View Post
I don't agree with that, no. I think EVs are the future and for good reason. They'd sell even without the government incentives, but certainly not as well.

Curious though. What do you have against EVs?
Because someone came up with the (marketing) idea EVs are going to save the planet. They are used as a political weapon.

From an engineering perspective I find them interesting and advantageous in some respects.

But as a political tool, nope.
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