Sport Mode (Gear Selector) vs Sport Mode (Driving Dynamics Selector)

[SanDiego640]

Demonstrating the German proclivity to never do in 1 step what can be done in 2, I'm trying to get a handle on the difference between the Sport program selected by tilting the gear shift lever to the left (D to S), versus Sport (or Sport+) mode selected by toggling through the five programs available through the Driving Dynamics Control rocker switch to the left of the gear selector.

I had assumed (silly me) that when selecting Sport (or Sport+) through the DDC rocker switch, the transmission shift characteristics were set to their "sportiest" setting.

However, I noticed today that even when in the Sport (or Sport+) program, if I *also* tilt the gear selector to the left (D to S) and select THAT "Sport Mode", the transmission shifting becomes even more aggressive than simply being in the "D" position when the Sport (or Sport+) program on.

The manual indicates that the DDC program selected impacts the characteristics of the chassis AND drivetrain (which I assumed meant transmission shifting) too.

Can someone explain this? Also, what is the correct parlance when referring to each?

Thanks!

[ezmaass]

Hmm... interesting. My understanding of this has always been:

- Shifting the lever over only impacts the transmission shift speed.

- Sport / Sport+ will impact the transmission shift speed AND damper rate if both of those are so-configured to be impacted via your iDrive.

Therefore, I always imagined the lever to be somewhat redundant (for the drivetrain) assuming you didn't deselect the transmission (drivetrain) from the Sport settings.

So, can you explain in a bit more detail what's happening? For example, when using just the Sport program, you should notice that gears are held much longer, and a lower gear is always engaged. What then changes when you use the lever?

[SanDiego640]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Hmm... interesting. My understanding of this has always been:

- Shifting the lever over only impacts the transmission shift speed.

- Sport / Sport+ will impact the transmission shift speed AND damper rate if both of those are so-configured to be impacted via your iDrive.

Therefore, I always imagined the lever to be somewhat redundant (for the drivetrain) assuming you didn't deselect the transmission (drivetrain) from the Sport settings.

So, can you explain in a bit more detail what's happening? For example, when using just the Sport program, you should notice that gears are held much longer, and a lower gear is always engaged. What then changes when you use the lever?

I assumed too that the shift lever moving left (D to S) would be redundant when already in Sport or Sport+ mode via the DDC rocker switch.

However...

I found that when already in Sport or Sport+, then tilting the shift lever to the left (D to S), the results included:

- Even higher shift points
- Sometimes forcing a downshift at the moment the lever is shifted from D to S

I am out of town this week without the car, so when I get back I plan to experiment more with it. Perhaps others on the forum here can also experiment and see the results. While in Sport/+, does the driving characteristic change when tilting the shift lever left from D to S?

[Qsilver7]

There's info on the TIS website that goes into some details about the driving experience switch...and how VDM (vertical dynamics) and the ICM and other components come into play. Its a lot to take in...so I suggest just searching around the TIS site to soak in what you can as to how these system work/function together.

The gear shift M/S just affects how the transmission shifts...but the "driving experience switch" (depending on which mode is selected) affects the transmission, suspension, and steering...using acceleration sensors and steering angle sensor etc and damping (EDC).

[ezmaass]

Will need to give this a try next time I take it out. To be honest, even the Sport mode adjusts the transmission a bit too aggressively if you're using it on the highway - as the gears hold too low, and I'm not crazy about cruising at 2.5k - 3k RPM. I've actually toyed with the idea of turning off the drivetrain adjustments in the iDrive and using the level in combination IF I wanted the sportier transmission settings. Will need to see if these are truly redundant or doing something differently - I've not been able to distinguish them in the past (on the 650 or previous 550).

[SanDiego640]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Will need to give this a try next time I take it out. To be honest, even the Sport mode adjusts the transmission a bit too aggressively if you're using it on the highway - as the gears hold too low, and I'm not crazy about cruising at 2.5k - 3k RPM. I've actually toyed with the idea of turning off the drivetrain adjustments in the iDrive and using the level in combination IF I wanted the sportier transmission settings. Will need to see if these are truly redundant or doing something differently - I've not been able to distinguish them in the past (on the 650 or previous 550).

In my experimenting with it this past week, it was clear that there was a difference between:

Shift lever in "S" (tilted left) + Driving mode Sport(+), producing a different shift pattern (more aggressive) than
Shift lever in "D" (tilted right) + Driving mode Sport(+).

Try putting the car in Sport or Sport+ mode, and the shift lever in "D". Then, while maintaining steady RPM, tilt the shift lever left to put it into "S" mode.

Several times when I did this, the transmission downshifted, suggesting it was now operating on a more aggressive program. I too thought there would be no difference and that the "two" sport modes were redundant.

I also noticed on the digital display, the currently selected gear appears as "S5" or "S6" etc only when the gear selector is tilted left for "S" mode, but this is not the case when in position "D" while the Driving Dynamics mode is set to Sport or Sport+. While this may appear obvious, the fact that the currently selected gear does not appear with an "S" before it on the display while the car is in Sport/Sport+ with the gear selector in "D" further suggests there is in fact a difference and Sport/Sport+ does not trigger the most aggressive transmission characteristics until the shift lever is tilted left for "S".

It goes without saying that none of this is even remotely explained in the manual, which is insanely vague.

[bimmer12]

I'm going to experiment with shift lever S vs. D on sports+ and share my experience with it. But as far as the digital dash showing S1, S2, etc. goes, I would think that's probably to differentiate between S1 (lever switched over prior to manual shifting) vs. M1 (after manually shifting - permanently if lever is shifted over, or temporarily if the lever is on "D") rather than necessarily being an indication that shift points have been altered.

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by SanDiego640

In my experimenting with it this past week, it was clear that there was a difference between:

Shift lever in "S" (tilted left) + Driving mode Sport(+), producing a different shift pattern (more aggressive) than
Shift lever in "D" (tilted right) + Driving mode Sport(+).

Try putting the car in Sport or Sport+ mode, and the shift lever in "D". Then, while maintaining steady RPM, tilt the shift lever left to put it into "S" mode.

Several times when I did this, the transmission downshifted, suggesting it was now operating on a more aggressive program. I too thought there would be no difference and that the "two" sport modes were redundant.

I also noticed on the digital display, the currently selected gear appears as "S5" or "S6" etc only when the gear selector is tilted left for "S" mode, but this is not the case when in position "D" while the Driving Dynamics mode is set to Sport or Sport+. While this may appear obvious, the fact that the currently selected gear does not appear with an "S" before it on the display while the car is in Sport/Sport+ with the gear selector in "D" further suggests there is in fact a difference and Sport/Sport+ does not trigger the most aggressive transmission characteristics until the shift lever is tilted left for "S".

It goes without saying that none of this is even remotely explained in the manual, which is insanely vague.

Very insightful - thanks for sharing! I still haven't been out in my 650 yet - probably Friday - but will try it at that point.

There are quite a few technologies that are under-explained in the manual - let's not even get into collision warning and automatic braking.

[Qsilver7]

My assumption (based on BMW's progression from the early development of ATC {adaptive transmission control} which debuted back in 1994) is that the manually selectable "sport mode" mapping initiated by moving the gear shift lever is different.

Back in the early development then onto the next iteration (e34/e38/e39/e46/e53 era)...ATC (adaptive transmission control) had nine "automatic" modes that would adapt based on driver or environmental conditions. Then there was the 10th mode which was manually selected that was an extreme sport mode that had transmission upshift/downshift mapping that was developed to get the most out of the engine's power reserves and RPM:

The first 3 modes below were automatically selected at each start up based on how the driver pressed the accelerator pedal:

1. extreme economy (granny-toe mode)
2. economy (default mode)
3. sport mode (shift points are higher to take advantage of full engine performance) {but NOT the same as the manually selected EXTEREME SPORT MODE that is initiated by moving the gear shift lever into M/S gate}
   
4. Stop-n-Go mode (2nd gear starts are activated by a sequence of 1st-2nd upshift followed by a 2nd-1st downshift...then followed by a stop)
5. Winter Drive Mode (2nd gear starts are activated by slippage at the rear wheels)
6. Up Hill Recognition Mode
7. Down Hill Recognition Mode
8. Curve Recognition (inhibits upshifts when the vehicle is in a curve)
9. Cruise Control Drive Program (the TCM will prevent unwanted locking & unlocking of the torque converter clutch...also upshift/downshift will be minimized)
10. EXTREME SPORT MODE is activated by moving the gear shift lever...

At this point, my experience and past understanding...BMW probably still uses the same bases as more technology and control modules and mapping was added to the mix. The manual selection that moves the gear shift lever into the M/S gate...indicates an "extreme" sport mode that still raises the shift points for maximum RPM and perfomance. The driving experience switch where you select Sport and Sport+ modes bring in other features that will affect transmission shifting, steering, and suspension damping. But as in previous iterations...the transmission mapping/shifting is not as extreme as it is when you move the gear shift lever into the M/S gate.

Some info from the past...which makes me assume the fundamentals and basics I assumed in my writings above:

[bimmer12]

So based on my rather brief experiment with it (this was on sport rather than sport+ for what it’s worth):

- I honestly don't notice any difference in terms of shift points between lever on D vs. M/S, at least under gentle to average acceleration and on lower gears (1-4)
- I do notice the frequent downshift when moving the lever from D to M/S as SanDiego640 mentioned.
- ...well that’s about it lol.

One additional thing I did notice about the downshift though:

1. Drive in sport mode, with lever on M/S, let it automatically go into S3
2. Switch to D, car holds 3rd gear
3. Switch back to M/S, and it will downshift to S2

I’ve replicated this multiple times, the entire process within 2-5 seconds, while holding speed/RPM more or less constant throughout the steps. Based on this I'm thinking the car may just be designed to force downshift when moving the lever to M/S at certain speeds/RPMs/gears, and this may not be due to differences in shift points on D vs. M/S.

[ezmaass]

So, I gave this a shot today - and the OP is definitely correct.

Putting the car in Sport mode (driving dynamics switch), the transmission will drop a gear or so. Pushing the lever over on the transmission? In many circumstances (higher speeds), the transmission will drop ANOTHER gear. So yes, it appears that the modes do, indeed, compound.

Given that the gear selected is probably the easiest to identify, I'd suspect that the transmission characteristics are probably cumulative in other (harder to detect) ways, as well. For example, I did note that it gets awfully jerky in lower gears if you attempt to drive this way in stop/go traffic.

In any case, I learned something new here. I always believed the Sport mode was inclusive of the sport transmission settings given the iDrive control for drivetrain and the apparent change in transmission characteristics - but it's clearly not fully inclusive. So, for anyone looking for THE sportiest driving, it's important to engage both of these in concert.

[SanDiego640]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

So, I gave this a shot today - and the OP is definitely correct.

Putting the car in Sport mode (driving dynamics switch), the transmission will drop a gear or so. Pushing the lever over on the transmission? In many circumstances (higher speeds), the transmission will drop ANOTHER gear. So yes, it appears that the modes do, indeed, compound.

Given that the gear selected is probably the easiest to identify, I'd suspect that the transmission characteristics are probably cumulative in other (harder to detect) ways, as well. For example, I did note that it gets awfully jerky in lower gears if you attempt to drive this way in stop/go traffic.

In any case, I learned something new here. I always believed the Sport mode was inclusive of the sport transmission settings given the iDrive control for drivetrain and the apparent change in transmission characteristics - but it's clearly not fully inclusive. So, for anyone looking for THE sportiest driving, it's important to engage both of these in concert.

So we on this board have learned something new, that the Sport mode engaged by the shift lever D/M+S compounds the Sport/+ engaged by the driving dynamics selector as it relates to drivetrain characteristics.

For me as a long time E90 owner, I think what led me to only discover this after a while was the presence of the gear selector paddles on the steering wheel.

On my E90 the only way to manually select gears was via tilting the gear selector to the left, thus moving from D to M+S mode and "manually" shifting from there.

The shift paddles on the F06 eliminates the need for touching the gear selector at all to manually shift, and so for weeks after getting the car I never touched it.

I suspect there are other owners who similarly assumed that the Sport/+ mode selected by the driving dynamics selector is entirely redundant with the gear shift selected Sport mode (M+S), as opposed to what we have discovered, which is one compounds the other.

Anyone else have any experiences to share on this? I think it's a pretty significant aspect of the car which is totally absent from any of the owner documentation.

All in all, the contrast between how this car behaves across the spectrum of the various modes is pretty stark. Putting aside "EcoPro," which is utterly ridiculous and useless, the driving characteristics between Comfort+ with the gear selector in "D" mode, versus Sport+ with the gear selector in M+S mode really makes it feel like two very different cars.

[Frupal]

I have also noticed that when you pull the gearshift to the left (in sport mode) the transmission immediately downshifts, as if to say, okay! Let’s go! I’m going to try this in comfort mode, see if it does the same. I haven’t seen mention of the fact that when the shifter is pulled to the left in sport mode, that the car doesn’t revert to automatic shifting. I think this is the case... Very strange that BMW doesn’t spell these things out. But I do really like the ‘Jekyl & Hyde’ effect between sport (+) and comfort mode.

Speaking of which! Comfort+? I think I’ve noticed a neutered throttle response, somewhere between Comfort and Eco Pro. But I think the ride got softer and the handling a bit more vague. So I find myself in comfort mode 90% of the time.

[Rob09msport]

Best info I saw is if you pull up zf8 xhp advertisement it lists the different speeds and form of torque reduction etc. Alot of the modes has to do with shift speed and spark cut vs timing pull . The trans mode changes percentages in the tables but doesnt actually turn on or off burbles or anything but it will usually trigger a downshift because it will make the trans hold a gear more and also prevent upshift in high g turns etc .

[Rob09msport]

From xhp site

So let's explain it with an example: The 335i (same goes for M135i and M235i) accesses the same transmission mode, when putting the gear-lever in S or when setting the DEC to "Sport" but leaving the gear lever in D. The trans is still "slow" in both modes but you get a bit higher shift-points. Thats not so exciting at all. Or another example is the manual mode: No matter what you have set with the DEC, it will always shift in the fast mode and rough. Some may like it, but it definitely restricts what the system could do.

The chart I found on a forum not xhp site but It seems to be from xhp.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by SanDiego640

Demonstrating the German proclivity to never do in 1 step what can be done in 2

I love the way you phrased this!

But interesting findings. I'll try it on my auto 650s. All the more reason I love the manual 650 I still have! I control the transmission.

[JBF650]

Very interesting thread and I’ve been experimenting this weekend where roads and conditions allow.
I usually drive in comfort or comfort + mode about 90% of the time.... even pushing the gear lever over in these modes I notice accelerator response sharpens and transmission drops gears. Putting into sport mode and then pushing gear lever to sport is like what has been described above ‘mr Hyde’ mode!
In all the time I’ve had my 650 now I’ve never bothered with the paddles... however played around with them too and In sport mode with gear lever in sport they stay in manual mode! I like it! As you slow to a crawl it will drop to M1 but you then have to change the gear yourself, it’s terrific fun!
Thanks gents is there no end to the fun of our 6ers?
What is absurd is no where in the instruction manual is all of this explained and set out in any meaningful way.... or am I being to critical
JBF

[SanDiego640]

Originally Posted by JBF650

Very interesting thread and I’ve been experimenting this weekend where roads and conditions allow.
I usually drive in comfort or comfort + mode about 90% of the time.... even pushing the gear lever over in these modes I notice accelerator response sharpens and transmission drops gears. Putting into sport mode and then pushing gear lever to sport is like what has been described above ‘mr Hyde’ mode!
In all the time I’ve had my 650 now I’ve never bothered with the paddles... however played around with them too and In sport mode with gear lever in sport they stay in manual mode! I like it! As you slow to a crawl it will drop to M1 but you then have to change the gear yourself, it’s terrific fun!
Thanks gents is there no end to the fun of our 6ers?
What is absurd is no where in the instruction manual is all of this explained and set out in any meaningful way.... or am I being to critical
JBF

I spend a lot of time in flight so I have read through all of the documentation on the 6 via the BMW Drivers Guide app on my iPad, and there is nothing even remotely descriptive of how the dynamic driving modes interact with the gear shift modes (D/M+S). Zip. This is also true of the YouTube channel with all of the short video guides on the car's features.

Sport mode + M/S mode = Mr. Hyde mode for sure! Significantly more aggressive driving characteristics than leaving it in D, especially when not shifting manually.

I hope other forum users will leave comments concerning their experiences in this area.

I think we've seen that this forum has shed some light yet again on an area of our 6ers glossed over by the documentation and could otherwise be missed entirely.

Ron in San Diego

[SanDiego640]

My experiments with my 6 confirm what JBF650 found.

Even when in Sport or Sport+ when selected through the driving dynamics switch, tilting the gear selector to M+S mode definitely impacts the drive and makes performance more aggressive.

There is an immediate downshift when switching to M+S, and performance is impacted via throttle response and transmission characteristics. When tilting right back into D, it will upshift after a slight pause.

Freeway onramps are a fun place to test, and in Sport + M/S, flooring it on takeoff had me in second gear almost all the way to the red line. Rocket. Ship!

Ron

[MichaelInChicago]

After a few weeks of driving in comfort mode, the car is almost 20% more fuel efficient than driving in sport mode, with an increase of just under 3 mpg. That is pretty significant, especially when comfort mode delivers more than one needs in 90% of driving situations.

[Opie55]

Originally Posted by MichaelInChicago

After a few weeks of driving in comfort mode, the car is almost 20% more fuel efficient than driving in sport mode, with an increase of just under 3 mpg. That is pretty significant, especially when comfort mode delivers more than one needs in 90% of driving situations.

I'm surprised it's not an even bigger difference. You just know it's sucking gas based on how high it revs all the time.