F1 2021: Saudi Arabian GP - Jeddah (Dec 5)

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Wat

I Love dogs !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Over the years we've seen many great drivers become champs just because they kept their head cool when it mattered most. Just think of Fitti, Lauda, Piquet, Prost, Hakkinen, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton etc.
Now during a tight battle for the WCD at the penultimate GP of the season, Max:

1. Crashed into the wall at the last corner during quali;
2. Overtook Lewis around the outside and off the track at restart 1 -> Penalty 1 (3rd grid position at restart 2)
3. Forced Lewis off the track in lap 37 during fight for position -> Penalty 2 (cede position to Hamilton - a team's choice)
4. Didn't actually let Lewis pass after the lap 37 incident -> Penalty 3 (5 s. time penalty)
5. Braking erratically (2,4 g deceleration) when trying to let Ham pass -> Penalty 4 (10 s. time penalty, established after the race)

Max' overtake at the 2nd restart was brilliant but facts are just facts.

Ham could easily have speeded up with his rocket PU but no he wants to preserve his tyres and hangs around Max so...does he think Max will stay in his place like Hams nagged teammate on the verge of breakdown?, it's racing 100% and Masi with the stewards are interfering like F* nannies.

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Over the years we've seen many great drivers become champs just because they kept their head cool when it mattered most. Just think of Fitti, Lauda, Piquet, Prost, Hakkinen, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton etc.
Now during a tight battle for the WCD at the penultimate GP of the season, Max:

1. Crashed into the wall at the last corner during quali;
2. Overtook Lewis around the outside and off the track at restart 1 -> Penalty 1 (3rd grid position at restart 2)
3. Forced Lewis off the track in lap 37 during fight for position -> Penalty 2 (cede position to Hamilton - a team's choice)
4. Didn't actually let Lewis pass after the lap 37 incident -> Penalty 3 (5 s. time penalty)
5. Braking erratically (2,4 g deceleration) when trying to let Ham pass -> Penalty 4 (10 s. time penalty, established after the race)

Max' overtake at the 2nd restart was brilliant but facts are just facts.

All well laid out but, reasonable and correct. However the level of bias, blinkers or rose tinted specs by a few is quite frankly beyond believable. They can even find things in data that actually shows something else, but hey they are the apparent experts.

If even once some called out that 'their driver' made a mistake once then they might have some creditability, we all know people make mistakes but for some here, even that isn't possible it seems.

No driver is an Angel at the top of the sport they can and should be ruthless, dangerous though, No.

[FormulaMMM]

lol even the telemetry is a shitshow.

My interpretation: Having received the radio call to let HAM by, VER surely assumes HAM knows what's up. I think that's a key point to consider -- VER would have interpreted HAM's prolonged following and uncertainty as games.

If you look at the top graph just prior to the impact, about the 5275 mark, their speed traces match perfectly. Just before VER applies additional brake pressure.

To me this says, "ok fine, you ass, do you want me to park it and force you to pass before the DRS line?"

Also, looks like VER releases brake pressure and slows decel just prior to impact. Seems the opposite of what you'd do trying to bait the trailing car into a collision (softer braking then a spike).

Agree VER pushed the limit of yielding the position, of course, but maintain HAM really mismanaged the incident as the trailing car. There was nothing unavoidable about it. He should have been anywhere other than leaving no margin for error on VER's gearbox. Thankful the championship didn't end with this incident... So easily could have.

[rcracin]

Max is a dirty driver. He’ll never have the reputation and achievements of Ham. Outbraking and running off the track then getting annoyed and brake checking when someone who’s smarter than him knows what he’s trying to do.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Max tries to take Ham out next race. Completely pathetic.

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

•Sociopath ?
BS !

•I believe it’s a diagnosis ?
BS !

•Wat ?
BS !

•You're out there ?
BS !

Facts !!!

According the telemetry , HAM has shown the most 'Irregularities in his braking and driving behaviour !
MAX was braking already very early on the straight , but HAM didn't wanted to overtake , because then MAX would get DRS and MAX would overtake HAM again ..

It was a fight to get P 2 and for HAM a fight to keep P 2 to get DRS !!!

The telemetry shows that HAM was aware of the whole situation ..
As I said the crash was a DRS fight !
HAM said : I didn't knew what was going on , but HAM knew very well what was going on !
In other words : HAM is a dirty liar with dirty tricks !

So here is your Sociopath Diagnosis and Analysis !

Mate...you didn't even know that different rules apply to a safety car restart & banged on about Lewis cheating & FIA conspiracies about the 10 car lengths
The more posts you put up the more your lack of knowledge shows...just give it up & stop making yourself look foolish

[irunalot]

How much of a cocky prick do you have to be to ignore advice from someone that has already done it and continues to do it. That is a huge sign of immaturity and just plain stupid. Even if you don't like the guy listen, you may learn something. Obviously, he’s learned nothing and continues to act like a 12-year-old at a K1 karting track beating up on 12-year-olds at a birthday party.

Him and Horner both act like spoiled children. When an actual mature adult gets his butt kicked, they look at themselves to see where they went wrong, how they can improve so next time they wither win or don’t get beat the same way again. In this case you have two giant children pointing fingers and making unsubstantiated claims towards competitors. If someone is cheating the FIA will eventually come down on them, you can’t cheat from 2014 to today and get away with it. Everyone just needs to accept they got out engineered, outsmarted, out driven, and out strategized by Mercedes. Take all that energy spent complaining and get better… The FIA has no need to let Mercedes get away with anything, competition like we are seeing is great for the sport, why would they just let Mercedes have it. Mercedes took it, they were not given a damn thing. If anything, this year’s rules knee capped Mercedes, giving all other teams running high rake concept an advantage. Look at Aston compared to last year, they could not engineer their way out of this rule change. Mercedes and Hamilton have spent the entire year improving. Honestly to come back the way they have is damn impressive. I thought they were toast a month ago. This should be applauded not torn down.

Max is an uber talent, but a prick and I'd rather see Russell, Norris, Sainz, Schumacher or any of the other young drivers win over him. Him and Mazepin are in the running for prick of the year. I’ve given him every benefit of the doubt but he’s just a dirty driver and if he wins the WDC, he’s the one that cheated by driving in an unsportsmanlike manner.

And that pole lap, was on the edge, but ragged and reckless for someone gunning for a WDC. Do people forget what Hamilton has done? Please stop with it’s the car, his teammates can’t beat him and the one that did have to pull the same crap Max is pulling this year to do so. Nico almost unraveled and retired due to the effort he had to put into beat Hamilton. So what that he has had been on good teams his entire career, he’s also worked his butt off, and you can’t fault someone for making good career decisions. Does Hamilton make mistakes sure he has, he’s human but at least he’s humbled enough to recognize them and correct them. Hmm that what adults and successful people do. Does he push the rules of course, it’s a sport and he’s a competitor ALL the drivers and team do this in EVERY form of motorsport and life. I don’t understand the mentality of people always trying to bring down success… Learn from it and be successful yourself..

[M5Rick]

It's F1 not a kiddy driving range at Disney World, the only dirty driver here is Ham with cheating w12 that hasn't been checked properly e.g. rear wing, front wing,illegal inlet plenum cooling that's been passed and not checked thoroughly, laughable PU replacement rules where you can have a new one with just a 5 grid place drop if you play it right, again to suit Merc, it's why Max is always on the edge and the only one challenging while all the others don't even try and resign themselves to one minute back.

[gatorfast]

One race to determine the champion. Cant wait!

[Autobacs]

Even F1 journalists have differing views. Pick what you like!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/planet...di-arabian-gp/

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

Even F1 journalists have differing views. Pick what you like!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/planet...di-arabian-gp/

All agree Max was over the line on multiple occasions. The only thing in dispute was how much was Lewis to blame as well in certain parts of the race.

I do think it’s funny the usual suspects and even the stewards gave Lewis a black and white warning flag for running Max wide. Lewis at least stayed on the track and Max got a pass for his Brazil stunt without a warning. Max needs to reign it in for one race if he wants to win this thing.

Also crazy Max has the tiebreaker based on the “win” at Spa.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

The points system has changed over the years so the comparison is flawed.

Super License Points system was introduced in 2014 and has not changed. Max is angling for the top spot.

https://f1statblog.co.uk/f1-penalty-points/

[Bubbles]

Driver ratings

Max drives as if he were still in a karts. Some good, some not so good. His authentic aggressiveness is plainly visible and he pays the price.


Hammy tends to maneuver pre and post race which is becoming more transparent than he may hope for and may explain his significant popularity drop.

Rear ending incident really provides insight to his character not racecraft.
Hammy could have easily said I wasn’t going to pass I’m before the DRS zone. Fair point and doesn’t necessarily run afoul of the rules.

Rather, Hammy told us that he didn't know that Verstappen had to give him back the place that he had won, but why would crazy Max drop significant speed?

Hammy either freaked out and didnt know what to do, thereby lacking all racecraft which is unlikely or he would have known something about the arranged place swap. And if so, he would have lied saying he didn’t know.

That’s the part that shows strength of character and that makes him look less than ideal. Tell the truth, it’s freeing and not prohibited by the rules.

Dude can race, sprinkle some more honesty and he may get the adoration he desperately wants.

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Driver ratings

Max drives as if he were still in a karts. Some good, some not so good. His authentic aggressive is plainly visible and he pays the price.


Hammy tends to maneuver pre and post race which is becoming more transparent than he may hope for and may explain his significant popularity drop.

Rear ending incident really provides insight to his character not racecraft.
Hammy could have easily said I wasn’t going to pass I’m before the DRS zone. Fair point and doesn’t necessarily run foul of the rules.

Rather, Hammy told us that he didn't know that Verstappen had to give him back the place that he had won, but why would crazy Max drop significant speed?

Hammy either freaked out and don’t know what to do, thereby lacking all racecraft which is unlikely or he would have known something about the arranged place swap. And if so, he would have lied saying he didn’t know.

That’s the part that shows strength of character and that makes him look less than ideal. Tell the truth, it’s freeing and not prohibited by the rules.

Dude can race, sprinkle some more honesty and he may get the adoration he desperately wants.

I think HAM was confused as to why Max slowed and he didn't trust Max not to try to hit him during the overtake. But regardless of anything HAM knew or didn't know, Max decided to swerve and slam on the brakes himself. Max is responsible for his actions and should've received a more harsh penalty for it. At least despite all of Max's dirty moves during the race... it was all for nothing as Lewis won anyway. Their gamble to put Max on mediums just so he could get off the line better did not pay off.

[tdott]

These two are so cute together, only ones liking each others BS nonsense.

[tdott]

More and more people are seeing through the non sense they plaster over every thread.

[Killed by Death]

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

According the telemetry , HAM has shown the most 'Irregularities in his braking and driving behaviour !
......

what a joke^
You really do need to learn how to read telemetry data


...

[M5Rick]

Max got two penalties yet Ham none despite Max wanting to give his place up on three occasions to him...WTF are Fia playing at.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/10073...uggestion.html

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

what a joke^
You really do need to learn how to read telemetry data


...
Attachment 2759417

Could be wrong, but think you've misplaced the point of impact. Believe it was almost exactly the moment you see VER's accel trace pick back up, left of your brake check circle (~5300 mark).

[kring]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Max got two penalties yet Ham none despite Max wanting to give his place up on three occasions to him...WTF are Fia playing at.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/10073...uggestion.html

Max did a tactical give up, so that he could just take it right back with DRS, it wasn't a proper give-back. it's what a cheater or someone with poor sportsmanship does. as evident by the way he drove 7 laps never offering it, then offered it back right before turn 1 and then immediately dove the corner and took it back.

you can see it in his disposition, statements, personality and actions - he's not a sportsman... compared to all 19 other profession drivers, Max is absolutely at the bottom of the barrel.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

what a joke^
You really do need to learn how to read telemetry data


...
Attachment 2759417

You're addressing the speed graph not the brake one