F1 2021: Saudi Arabian GP - Jeddah (Dec 5)

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

The funny thing about all this is. Max was going to lose this race. He didn't have the pace today but by pulling todays stunt he showed his true colors.

Well he had a chance if it was on hards (he was matching lewis's pace for awhile till the tires dropped off), but redbull kind of screwed him with the mediums because it couldn't last long enough. Otherwise mercedes have really closed that performance gap that was present at the beginning of the year lets see if they mercede can complete the comeback in abu dhabi, or if redbull can manage one win. Who knows what will happen, but max is probably going to be under more pressure than Lewis because he knows he bungled his shot at the title so far, and if he messes up anymore it will be all for nothing. Nico rosberg was right, the pressure for the championship leader is always astronomical to the point where they can't even get poles anymore.


But yeah he's showing the side of him that I really wish he would bury and turn over a new leaf. Because if the field is going to be closer together next year with the new car concept I don't think he will be able to win a championship with that mentality. Because he will be far to agressive and will likely sustain unnecessary DNF's that will hinder his title chances.

[Autobacs]

[QUOTE=F87source;28330127]Well he had a chance if it was on hards (he was matching lewis's pace for awhile till the tires dropped off), but redbull kind of screwed him with the mediums because it couldn't last long enough.

All the incidents aside, he did not have a chance. Lewis easily was pulling him in on the hards even when Max's mediums were new. RB was banking on another safety car incident, as pointed out by the Sky commentators. Mercedes clearly had the better pace and Max knew it too.

[F87source]

[QUOTE=Autobacs;28330214]

Originally Posted by F87source

Well he had a chance if it was on hards (he was matching lewis's pace for awhile till the tires dropped off), but redbull kind of screwed him with the mediums because it couldn't last long enough.

All the incidents aside, he did not have a chance. Lewis easily was pulling him in on the hards even when his Max's mediums were knew. Mercedes clearly had the better pace and Max knew it too.

Better pace doesn't mean max doesn't have a chance look at COTA Lewis had much better pace near the end but couldn't pass. On the mediums max was able to match Lewis pace, and there's always a chance he could've stayed ahead but again this race is hard to judge with all the crazy stuff that occured and how many times it was stopped or slowed with a vsc or SC.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by irunalot

Max is a dirt bag driver, and hes been doing this crap for years. We forget this Ocon incident a few years ago. Hes fast no doubt but hes an idiot on track and can't control his emotions. Its one thing to drive like a dick, its another to go after someone after a race. This isn't NASCAR...

Had he taken the advice of a veteran and one of the greatest drivers of all time he would not be in this position. Max would be cruising to his first WDC. But his hubris keeps biting him in his posterior.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by minn19

Had he taken the advice of a veteran and one of the greatest drivers of all time he would not be in this position. Max would be cruising to his first WDC. But his hubris keeps biting him in his posterior.

Max needs to learn you don't need to win every race to win the title, sometimes backing out is a good thing. You survive to fight another day.

Originally Posted by StatenEye

This is because his fans are petulant fanboys that actually vote for things like this. Lewis was lucky to make it out of that race alive, once again.

Lol this probably will be sketchy if max tries to take Lewis out next race to win by default, but he might risk a DQ.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

This is because his fans are petulant fanboys that actually vote for things like this. Lewis was lucky to make it out of that race alive, once again.

You've just proved yourself to be a fanboy of Ham,all fans of all drivers vote when this comes up.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

The points system has changed over the years so the comparison is flawed.

Exactly and all down to MIB man Masi.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Just got more information about the crash ..The truth !

"The crash was a DRS fight" and a fight to get P2 !

HAM was very well aware that he got P1 back ..And that MAX had to let him overtake .
But HAM didn't wanted P1 back there , 'NOT in the DRS detection/zone .

That's why MAX braked the second time heavier , because MAX wanted to get P2 and so DRS as well .

HAM said : I didn't knew what was going on . But he knew it very well , that's why he didn't wanted the lead (P1) there . HAM wanted P1 back but later and out of the DRS range ..

In other words : HAM is a dirty liar with dirty tricks ..

And MAX got the penalty for HAM's dirty tricks ! ...
This is a shame for motorsports !

That is so easy to understand, the ham fanbois just can't take that in or won't lol

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

HAM got a "painless" 5 sec. penalty to push MAX with 51 G in the wall at Silverstone ..
MAX could have been killed in that crash ...

Which proves mikey is a piece of 5hit.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

According my database :

MAX's HONDA ICE was replaced in Russia .
In other words : MAX ran already 7 races with his HONDA PU .

Next weekend in Yas Marina that would be race number : 8

The penalty for replacing PU with new outside the allowed number is ridiculous, it was all made up by Fia to help Merc who knew already Merc PU was quicker but more fragile and the Honda PU is more reliable but can't be boosted like the Merc one.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

The penalty for replacing PU with new outside the allowed number is ridiculous, it was all made up by Fia to help Merc who knew already Merc PU was quicker but more fragile and the Honda PU is more reliable but can't be boosted like the Merc one.

LOL!


Where is your evidence on this? Wait that's right you only make stuff up.


Because the rules for enigne changes and penalties that reflect today's rule set were first published in 2018, which was way before honda and redbull could even hold a candle to mercedes in terms of car performance.


FIA sporting regulation section 23.3 b: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...2018-07-17.pdf

"Should a driver use more than the numbers set in a) above of any one of the elements
during a Championship season, a grid place penalty will be imposed upon him at the
first Event during which each additional element is used. Penalties will be applied
according to the following table and will be cumulative :
The first time an additional element is used Ten grid place penalty.
The next times an additional element is used Five grid place penalty.
If a driver incurs a penalty exceeding 15 grid places he will be required to start the race
from the back of the starting grid. If more than one driver receives such a penalty they
will be arranged at the back of the grid in the order in which the offences were
committed. However, if more than one driver incurs such a penalty after the end of the
qualifying session Article 35.2(c) will apply.
Any of the six elements will be deemed to have been used once the car’s timing
transponder has shown that it has left the pit lane.
During any single Event, if a driver introduces more than one of the same power unit
element which is subject to penalties, only the last element fitted may be used at
subsequent Events without further penalty."

[SenorFunkyPants]

There used to be an understanding (regulation?) that giving a place back had to be in such a manner that it would not be only short lived.
This was clarified after a race at Spa where Hamilton passed someone at the right hander before the start finish straight by going off track. He gave the place back straight away without being told but then repassed on the long straight.
Hamilton got a penalty and lost the race.
So this needs to be affirmed at the next drivers meeting to stop Verstappen trying his BS again.

[M5Rick]

There is no such rule and under the thumb stewards decide outside of the rules margins usually to help Hamilton.

[aerobat]

Maybe this is the result of "money rules".
Build an "fantastic" artificial track. Just to fast to provide fun and safe racing.
Then add really weak race director and judges. Under normal circumstances it would be nothing to look at.
But two amazing drivers made it worth to remember. Both made mistakes, but both also made outstanding performances. Hamilton had some more luck this time, maybe experience give you luck.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

LOL!


Where is your evidence on this? Wait that's right you only make stuff up.


Because the rules for enigne changes and penalties that reflect today's rule set were first published in 2018, which was way before honda and redbull could even hold a candle to mercedes in terms of car performance.


FIA sporting regulation section 23.3 b: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...2018-07-17.pdf

"Should a driver use more than the numbers set in a) above of any one of the elements
during a Championship season, a grid place penalty will be imposed upon him at the
first Event during which each additional element is used. Penalties will be applied
according to the following table and will be cumulative :
The first time an additional element is used Ten grid place penalty.
The next times an additional element is used Five grid place penalty.
If a driver incurs a penalty exceeding 15 grid places he will be required to start the race
from the back of the starting grid. If more than one driver receives such a penalty they
will be arranged at the back of the grid in the order in which the offences were
committed. However, if more than one driver incurs such a penalty after the end of the
qualifying session Article 35.2(c) will apply.
Any of the six elements will be deemed to have been used once the car’s timing
transponder has shown that it has left the pit lane.
During any single Event, if a driver introduces more than one of the same power unit
element which is subject to penalties, only the last element fitted may be used at
subsequent Events without further penalty."

All nicely worded to help Merc.

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by F87source

It's most likely the pressure being put on max (you know the pressure the 2 max fans said he doesn't feel at all), he knows its his championship to lose, and he is starting to crack. As a result he is desperate and now he is doing dangerous things...

Max is very desperate and as I feared before the race begun, he was more than willing to DNF himself and Hamilton if he knew he wasn't going to finish first.

Hamilton knows how dirty Max is, so imagine what was going through his head when he wasn't notified that Max was told to give up P1 and he found himself approaching Max driving slowly in the middle of the track. He had no idea what Max was doing and if Hamilton would've attempted to fly pass Max at high speed, who's to say Max wouldn't have veered into his path to cause a DNF scenario? So of course Ham approached Max slowly and cautiously because Max cannot be trusted. Sure enough, as Hamilton got closer Max grew more frustrated that Ham wouldn't pass him before the DRS line so he weaved and brake checked. Seriously, a brake check!? That makes no logical sense as he knows an investigation into incident would clearly show his application of the brakes. But Max was acting on emotion, no logic, and that's why he's so insanely dangerous out there. He really should have been DQ'd.

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

There is no such rule and under the thumb stewards decide outside of the rules margins usually to help Hamilton.

I've watched F1 for many many years and whilst I might be like one driver a little more than the other I understand what good racing is and who the talent in the field is.

Max is an undoubted talent and he has amazing raw pace but he isn't making silly fundamental mistakes in his approach to too many situations and that is not the way to become a world champion. That video posted earlier is a prime example, why even challenge the drive who is trying to unlap himself, he has far more to lose its just poor judgment, but his judgment hasn't improved much, a little yes but not enough.

The team have a part to play in this with the pressure and rhetoric they are feeding him but his fans can sometimes have the biggest blinkers on that I've seen in 20+ years of watching the sport.

Take Brazil, he clearly drove Hamilton off the circuit to try and keep the place, for me the FIA should have clearly stated this was wrong as they keep telling us the edge of the track is the edge of the track, but is it only when it suits them. So this bias that is apparently only towards Lewis is rubbish.

And this is part of the problem, the stewards and Michael Massi seem to change what is right and wrong like the wind. I can entirely see that the F1 drivers don't know what they can and can't do as it seems to change at each race to suit each situation and with a sport that is on such fine margins thats plain wrong.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

All nicely worded to help Merc.

Lol keep dreaming.

The rules in 2017 had the following penalties:

"season, a grid place penalty will be imposed upon him at the first Event during which
each additional element is used. Penalties will be applied according to the following
table and will be cumulative :
The first time a 5th of any of the Ten grid place penalty.
elements is used.
The first time a 5th of any of the Five grid place penalty.
remaining elements is used.
The first time a 6th of any of the Ten grid place penalty.
elements is used.
The first time a 6th of any of the Five grid place penalty."



So it alternates between 5 and 10 places, starts 10, then 5, then 10, then after that just 5. Much harsher than the new rules which is a10 place grid penalty then 5 for every time after.



In 2017 McLaren Honda had over 8-11 engine components replacements per car: https://www.racefans.net/2017-f1-sea...nalties-index/

While Mercedes only had 1 component replacement.


Hmm looks like the FIA changed the rules to save Honda.


Wrong again buddy.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

I've watched F1 for many many years and whilst I might be like one driver a little more than the other I understand what good racing is and who the talent in the field is.

Max is an undoubted talent and he has amazing raw pace but he isn't making silly fundamental mistakes in his approach to too many situations and that is not the way to become a world champion. That video posted earlier is a prime example, why even challenge the drive who is trying to unlap himself, he has far more to lose its just poor judgment, but his judgment hasn't improved much, a little yes but not enough.

The team have a part to play in this with the pressure and rhetoric they are feeding him but his fans can sometimes have the biggest blinkers on that I've seen in 20+ years of watching the sport.

Take Brazil, he clearly didn't drive Hamilton off the circuit to try and keep the place, for me the FIA should have clearly stated this was wrong as they keep telling us the edge of the track is the edge of the track, but is it only when it suits them. So this bias that is apparently only towards Lewis is rubbish.

And this is part of the problem, the stewards and Michael Massi seem to change what is right and wrong like the wind. I can entirely see that the F1 drivers don't know what they can and can't do as it seems to change at each race to suit each situation and with a sport that is on such fine margins thats plain wrong.

FTFY

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by ToddBlack88

Wow!


You are a sociopath!


Edit: and before you go getting all “he called me names”, I’m not calling you names, I believe it’s a diagnosis.

Originally Posted by NickyC

Wat

Originally Posted by Crimson92

Dude. You're out there.

•Sociopath ?
BS !

•I believe it’s a diagnosis ?
BS !

•Wat ?
BS !

•You're out there ?
BS !

Facts !!!

According the telemetry , HAM has shown the most 'Irregularities in his braking and driving behaviour !
MAX was braking already very early on the straight , but HAM didn't wanted to overtake , because then MAX would get DRS and MAX would overtake HAM again ..

It was a fight to get P 2 and for HAM a fight to keep P 2 to get DRS !!!

The telemetry shows that HAM was aware of the whole situation ..
As I said the crash was a DRS fight !
HAM said : I didn't knew what was going on , but HAM knew very well what was going on !
In other words : HAM is a dirty liar with dirty tricks !

So here is your Sociopath Diagnosis and Analysis !

[M5Rick]

^ The proof of the pudding is in the eating my friend and the graph proves it, when Max was hit he accelerated away to get away from the clueless idiot who was loitering then hit him...the stewards didn't have a clue so of course they sided with Hams moan story.

[EdM5]

Over the years we've seen many great drivers become champs just because they kept their head cool when it mattered most. Just think of Fitti, Lauda, Piquet, Prost, Hakkinen, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton etc.
Now during a tight battle for the WCD at the penultimate GP of the season, Max:

1. Crashed into the wall at the last corner during quali;
2. Overtook Lewis around the outside and off the track at restart 1 -> Penalty 1 (3rd grid position at restart 2)
3. Forced Lewis off the track in lap 37 during fight for position -> Penalty 2 (cede position to Hamilton - a team's choice)
4. Didn't actually let Lewis pass after the lap 37 incident -> Penalty 3 (5 s. time penalty)
5. Braking erratically (2,4 g deceleration) when trying to let Ham pass -> Penalty 4 (10 s. time penalty, established after the race)

Max' overtake at the 2nd restart was brilliant but facts are just facts.