Does your BMW add 3.75% for paying for service/part using a credit card?

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by BavarianPretzel

So I went to pick up my car this morning after they finally finished “unbricking” it after the most recent OTA update. No charge because it’s still under warranty. However, I still had to pick up the paperwork and key fob from the cashier’s window.

While I waited for my paperwork to be retrieved, I noticed that they got a cool new credit card machine. It looked so high tech as if it belonged on a futuristic space ship.

However, what really caught my eye was a decal on the machine that said credit card transactions incur a 3.75% “convenience fee”

Never saw that before at this dealer. When I bought my car a couple of years ago, there was no extra convenience fee when I used my United Airlines credit card to pay for the $5000 down payment.

The cashier saw me looking at that and said “yeah, we have to charge that now because the price of everything is going up” I asked if that fee still applies if I get one of those BMW credit cards and she said “all credit cards”

Do other dealers do this now? Or more importantly, the other two BMW dealers around me… need to find out soon. ��

Yes, mine does the same = Century BMW in Greenville, SC. Seems like it all began during C0v1d when inflation was 9-10%. So did the phenomena of tipping every Tom, Dick and Sally for doing their jobs. But now inflation is down around 2.6% in the USA and the "please tip me for doing my job" phenomena continues. I would like to be tipped for being retired. BMW Dealers are just recouping the transaction fees Visa and Mastercard charge them for access to the 'Swift' payment system - when really those fees are one of the costs of doing business; similar to their paying taxes. I rest my case. But instead now we're paying for them to take our money! The sooner people push back and start using cash again the sooner these add-on fees will go away. Seriously folks, dig out your cheque books.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Yeah, A few times I took money from a restaurant to a late night drop-off bin at the bank. It's a thing for sure, what I tried saying (maybe it was clear) was that a lot of businesses don't seem to consider the time people put into these things and the cost of that time. I know mine doesn't always consider it LOL.



It was buried, but I do largely agree. My gas station example. I'm just not surprised however for the bigger things, a dealer not taking a $5,000 deposit with a card and losing $150 or something in the process.

Agreed – I'm not bothered when a business limits the amount they'll accept on a credit card because I understand that the fee becomes disproportionately large. I wouldn't have a problem if a business had a policy where they'd only accept credit cards payments up to a certain amount, though it should be stated up front so there are no surprises. I just don't want to pay their processing fees; they shouldn't reap the benefits while I pay the costs.

Really CC processors should have a cap on the per-transaction fee, but that's neither my monkey nor my circus.

Also agreed that a lot of businesses don't actually understand what their costs are – though it can be easy to ignore the cost of your employees' time, it still exists. Those 30 minutes that someone is taking a deposit to the bank is costing something, after all. I guess that the credit card processing fee is a more in-your-face cost, so it gets more attention.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Yes, mine does the same = Century BMW in Greenville, SC.

When I put down a $1,000 deposit a couple of months ago my dealer, BMW of Columbia (SC), didn't charge a fee. Hendrick BMW (Charlotte, NC) limited credit card transactions to $5,000 and didn't charge a fee, but that's been a couple of years.

[unluky]

I'm old enough that I remember when CC companies would "punish" you for doing this when they were new. They could cancel your contract. I worked at a place back in the day that did this and due to the threats - changed it to a "cash discount" to get around the rules. LOL

Now that they firmly have everyone on the CC and no cash plan - they probably don't care anymore. At the time they didn't want using a CC to be a negative experience.

[DanG]

My BMW dealer doesn’t charge a fee but my wife’s Mazda dealer does. Mazda dealer has no fee if you use a debit card.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

When I put down a $1,000 deposit a couple of months ago my dealer, BMW of Columbia (SC), didn't charge a fee. Hendrick BMW (Charlotte, NC) limited credit card transactions to $5,000 and didn't charge a fee, but that's been a couple of years.

Seems like it all began during C0v1d when inflation was 9-10%. So did the phenomena of tipping every Tom, Dick and Sally for doing their jobs. But now inflation is down around 2.6% in the USA and the "please tip me for doing my job" phenomena continues. I would like to be tipped for being retired. BMW Dealers are just recouping the transaction fees Visa and Mastercard charge them for access to the 'Swift' payment system - when really those fees are one of the costs of doing business; similar to their paying taxes. I rest my case. But instead now we're paying for them to take our money! The sooner people push back and start using cash again the sooner these add-on fees will go away. Seriously folks, dig out your cheque books.

[B58-M340iX]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Seems like it all began during C0v1d when inflation was 9-10%. So did the phenomena of tipping every Tom, Dick and Sally for doing their jobs.

I can't stand this. The line, "it's going to ask you a question," and flipping the tablet or whatever around, adding another 10-25% on top of what you've already paid for. The other thing is how tipping goes up based on what you buy. Buy a $75 porterhouse? That'll be $15 if you're not a "cheap ass." But - buy a cheeseburger for $15, and the tip will be $3. Did someone do 5x the work? No.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by B58-M340iX

I can't stand this. The line, "it's going to ask you a question," and flipping the tablet or whatever around, adding another 10-25% on top of what you've already paid for. The other thing is how tipping goes up based on what you buy. Buy a $75 porterhouse? That'll be $15 if you're not a "cheap ass." But - buy a cheeseburger for $15, and the tip will be $3. Did someone do 5x the work? No.

It feels like a lot the tipping that asked for today, but wouldn't have been in the past, utilizes social anxiety and shaming. As you said, the "flip the screen around right in front of the person asking for the tip" thing can make it awkward not to tip for a lot of people. I actually think that's part of the tactic – make the transaction uncomfortable enough to hopefully bully people into tipping. It's all so scammy, and I wouldn't be surprised if 75% of the people tipping in these situations are doing it out of a desire not to be embarrassed or coming off as a cheapskate.

As for the percentage of the sale being the tip, yeah, it's kind of weird. But then again tipping in general is kind of weird, honestly. I've seen the argument made that more expensive food is generally served at higher-end restaurants where diners typically spend more time per-meal than lower-end ones, giving the server less tables to wait per shift and thus fewer opportunities for a tip. So it's supposed to all wash-out in the end with the idea being that the larger tip per meal will balance out less opportunities for tips per shift. I have no idea how that works in practice, though.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by B58-M340iX

I can't stand this. The line, "it's going to ask you a question," and flipping the tablet or whatever around, adding another 10-25% on top of what you've already paid for. The other thing is how tipping goes up based on what you buy. Buy a $75 porterhouse? That'll be $15 if you're not a "cheap ass." But - buy a cheeseburger for $15, and the tip will be $3. Did someone do 5x the work? No.

Me too. I was in a coffee house a couple months ago and an older guy (about my age) pressed the "No Tip" button. I sort of let out a silent cheer at the lone man fighting against the machine. I may start working my way back to around 5% or less for tips - other than in a restaurant - because believe it or not wages are reported to have kept up with inflation.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

It feels like a lot the tipping that asked for today, but wouldn't have been in the past, utilizes social anxiety and shaming. As you said, the "flip the screen around right in front of the person asking for the tip" thing can make it awkward not to tip for a lot of people. I actually think that's part of the tactic – make the transaction uncomfortable enough to hopefully bully people into tipping. It's all so scammy, and I wouldn't be surprised if 75% of the people tipping in these situations are doing it out of a desire not to be embarrassed or coming off as a cheapskate.

As for the percentage of the sale being the tip, yeah, it's kind of weird. But then again tipping in general is kind of weird, honestly. I've seen the argument made that more expensive food is generally served at higher-end restaurants where diners typically spend more time per-meal than lower-end ones, giving the server less tables to wait per shift and thus fewer opportunities for a tip. So it's supposed to all wash-out in the end with the idea being that the larger tip per meal will balance out less opportunities for tips per shift. I have no idea how that works in practice, though.

^ This is exactly correct. Spot on. Pier pressure and the "madness of crowds" sheep psychology is being leveraged against us. I mentioned above I may start working my way back to about 5% tips except for in a restaurant where real service is being provided. It's only in America too folks.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Seems like it all began during C0v1d when inflation was 9-10%. So did the phenomena of tipping every Tom, Dick and Sally for doing their jobs. But now inflation is down around 2.6% in the USA and the "please tip me for doing my job" phenomena continues. I would like to be tipped for being retired. BMW Dealers are just recouping the transaction fees Visa and Mastercard charge them for access to the 'Swift' payment system - when really those fees are one of the costs of doing business; similar to their paying taxes. I rest my case. But instead now we're paying for them to take our money! The sooner people push back and start using cash again the sooner these add-on fees will go away. Seriously folks, dig out your cheque books.

Yes. Many restaurants were putting an extra surcharge on the bill during the beer bug due to all the challenges they were facing to operate and stay open. But we're past that now. Some restaurants kept the surcharge in place after all the restrictions where lifted but I think gradually most if not all have eliminated. But I have certainly noticed the price increases. So they're still getting the additional fees but in a more stealthy way.

Now we're seeing other businesses getting in on the act where they see an opportunity to get extra revenue. I get that if the payment processing fees were just raised or put in place that businesses are trying to figure out how to deal with this cost. But credit cards have been around for a long time now. To me it's just another money grab.

As to breaking out the check books, I have but that's if it's even an option. Per my reply above, one repair shop I went to won't accept personal checks.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

It feels like a lot the tipping that asked for today, but wouldn't have been in the past, utilizes social anxiety and shaming. As you said, the "flip the screen around right in front of the person asking for the tip" thing can make it awkward not to tip for a lot of people. I actually think that's part of the tactic – make the transaction uncomfortable enough to hopefully bully people into tipping. It's all so scammy, and I wouldn't be surprised if 75% of the people tipping in these situations are doing it out of a desire not to be embarrassed or coming off as a cheapskate.

As for the percentage of the sale being the tip, yeah, it's kind of weird. But then again tipping in general is kind of weird, honestly. I've seen the argument made that more expensive food is generally served at higher-end restaurants where diners typically spend more time per-meal than lower-end ones, giving the server less tables to wait per shift and thus fewer opportunities for a tip. So it's supposed to all wash-out in the end with the idea being that the larger tip per meal will balance out less opportunities for tips per shift. I have no idea how that works in practice, though.

Having worked in the restaurant business as a waiter as a young lad and being more seasoned now being a customer at various levels of restaurants, the percentage of the total bill is also commensurate to the level of service/experience one expects at said establishment. I know wait staff that go after the high end restaurants knowing the level of tipping is going to be higher. But along with that, the expectation of them providing a level of service is going to be proportional too. Where many wait staff made a good living is the tips being paid to them in cash where lots of it goes unreported. Many customers are aware of this and will tip in cash to ensure they help out the wait staff. Some know that tips included in a credit card bill are now fully reported and many times not the full amount as some business take out the processing fee from the tip before paying out the wait staff. And then there are places where the bus staff's compensation is partially paid out by the wait staff from their tips.

But with the new change in tax law where tips up to a certain amount or exempted from income tax, this changes the dynamic.

[Phillies8008]

What I really, really love is when they call the added processing fee a "convenience fee".

Oddly, I've never once found it to be convenient.

[ShocknAwe]

I don't tip for coffee and I don't use a credit card if they're going to add the charge to my bill. The charge was already added years ago and just pooled in. Adding it again is double dipping.

Out of control.

[allinon72]

That's tacky....I would expect something like that in a Nissan dealership but not a luxury brand dealership. There seems to be a lot of BMW dealers out there, most within large dealer networks, that don't offer a level of service that should come from a luxury brand. They're all run the same with the only difference being the logo on the building. Shame.

[Phillies8008]

Yeah, that's one of the big problems with the dealership model – they're all independent businesses and there's only so much manufacturers can do to make them adhere to guidelines. I'm sure BMW would prefer to have a uniform, luxury experience in every dealership. Bad dealership experiences do nothing but hurt the brand.

It'd be great to have manufacturer-direct sales, but so long as NADA has legislators bought and paid for I'm not holding my breath.

[MisanoblueZ4]

Business have to keep showing record profits to the traders. Throwing an extra nearly 4% charge onto a transaction helps keep the train rolling.

I used debit last time for my yearly service at BMW to avoid fee.

[zx10guy]

Sorry. Won't ever use my debit/ATM card for any transactions. Security with these payment systems are questionable at best. I don't need the headache of having to deal with a hack that has direct access to the cash in my bank account.

[Pathy01]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Sorry. Won't ever use my debit/ATM card for any transactions. Security with these payment systems are questionable at best. I don't need the headache of having to deal with a hack that has direct access to the cash in my bank account.

Sounds like you’re not familiar with current systems utilizing NFC communication. Tap to pay essentially eliminates the risk since everything is tokenized into single use codes that are worthless if intercepted. None of your actual account information can be stolen because it’s never transmitted. If you are still swiping your card, that’s another story and much less secure.

[maticCRO]

Guys, tip ONLY when you feel its the right time and situation for you, if you feel super satisfied with the service or someone went out of their way to help you in some way.
For example, where i live, we leave tip 5% if satisfied, and if you are super satisfied, you can leave up to like 10%.
SO I WENT to the city of NY in 2023,stayed there for 2 weeks, ate like 20times in restaurants of all sorts. I tipped like i am home, if it was great i gave 10%,when it was nothing special i left 5%, and like 1/3 of the time i left 0 tip. And guess what, nothing happened! I did get some weird look of 1-2 waiters, but IDGAF, its my money and i spend only if i feel like.
I heard that in the USA lots of business owners pay their staff like minimum wage, and then expect Customers through tipping to make up for a decent salary.
Its NOT up to you to finance their business..
And especially when someone like BMW expects a tip for giving you a substitute car, or for you using a credit card?? There is a reason the company has literally Billions, and I sure as hell am not giving them a cent more that it says on the bill.
Just my 2 cents, i know its not my place since i dont live there..

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Pathy01

Sounds like you’re not familiar with current systems utilizing NFC communication. Tap to pay essentially eliminates the risk since everything is tokenized into single use codes that are worthless if intercepted. None of your actual account information can be stolen because it’s never transmitted. If you are still swiping your card, that’s another story and much less secure.

I'm familiar with the additional security features of NFC and chip based transactions. But nope. Still won't use any debit transactions via those methods. There have already been some vulnerabilities and exploits of the more "secure" transactions even with the encrypted tokens.

Using any of my credit cards means I get the standard protections of using a credit card and most of all my own money isn't at risk.

[Pathy01]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I'm familiar with the additional security features of NFC and chip based transactions. But nope. Still won't use any debit transactions via those methods. There have already been some vulnerabilities and exploits of the more "secure" transactions even with the encrypted tokens.

Using any of my credit cards means I get the standard protections of using a credit card and most of all my own money isn't at risk.

Federal law also requires banks to provide very similar protections for debit cards so your maximum exposure is $50 if you keep track of your banking regularly.

But you do you. Keeping most of all your money in your checking account is an interesting strategy...