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      05-02-2017, 11:09 AM   #1
MSUGOGRN
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Help Please! Muffler Delete but that Drone

First…need to eat some crow here. Upstate650…you were right so no need to say “I told you so” haha. The drone is bad…very bad.

Here’s the story:
I had my mufflers deleted yesterday and had the tips installed. First and foremost, I wanted to achieve the look in the picture below. I am incredibly happy with how awesome the tips look coming through the M6 / v-style diffuser. The muffler shop here in Denver (House of Mufflers) did an absolutely fantastic job. I also had heard some clips on youtube of the exhaust sound and similarly, my exhaust note (when outside the car!) sounds absolutely fantastic, very exotic. But the drone is really bad. If I could somehow figure out a way to achieve the look I want, keep the sound, and reduce the drone, I would be happy.

Unfortunately, when in comfort mode, the car’s aims to run the RPMs up slowly to 2k and then shift. This slow generation of RPM build-up causes massive drone. When in sport mode, the drone is not bad when accelerating. However, when coasting around 40 or so MPH, the RPMs are just over 2k and again, the drone is horrible. Keep in mind I have a convertible so I am guessing it is a little worse for the F12 owners.

I have to do something. Going back to my original mufflers is possible but is not really an option. Quite frankly I can’t achieve the look of the quad burnt tips (these are 3.5” but I would love 4.0”) by purchasing single burnt tips for the 650 muffler (the dual outlets will only handle 3.0” round tips). I called the muffler shop up and he mentioned possibly adding a new muffler onto the deleted section that only has a single outlet that can accommodate the tips I purchased. He was mentioning trying out magnaflow and that it may reduce drone, there will likely still be some.

I am still very new to the N63TU engine and BMWs in general as I want to ask the experts out there…Do any of you guys have any advice? What about an M5 or M6 muffler? I know Megan has a setup but I just don’t love the sound and quite frankly, I like the tips I have so much more. I want to keep this somewhat cost friendly but I just took a $400 gamble and it failed pretty miserably. Goals remain as follows and in in priority: (1) keep burnt 3.5” or 4.0” dual tips (ideally the same ones I have), (2) no drone, (3) better exhaust sound. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
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      05-02-2017, 12:59 PM   #2
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Sorry to hear what happened. It sucks to throw cash down the drain, I've been there. It does look very cool though.
Well, muffler sound is sort of like wheel sizes. You get to a point where it gives diminishing returns. Loud will give you drone or an ear ache after awhile. There's really no way around it. Even with $3k Meisterschaft mufflers, you'll get drone. Sort of like very large wheels will eventually give you a bad ride. For sound, you'll have to compromise to get the look. IMO, your options:
1. Keep straight pipe but have muffler shop weld on 'J' pipes to diffuse the drone. It'll still be loud, drone 'may' minimize but there's no guarantee. You may end up throwing more cash down the drain.



2. Pick up a set of Megan M5/M6 for $500 and be done with it.
3. Pick up a set of used OE M5/M6 mufflers and you have the option of changing out the tips to burnt tips. If you can find competition ones, you'll get a much better sound.

With options 2 and 3, the sound will definitely not be as loud and aggressive as what you currently have but there are ways to sort of make it meaner. For M5/M6 mufflers, you can install an exhaustmeister and remotely open the valves during throttle and have it closed at 1500-2k rpm. If that's not loud enough, you can go the route of getting a muffler bypass system and remotely open the bypass valve so it'll sound like your straight pipe when you want. I believe a 650 will require 2 bypass systems.
You can also install x-pipes and downpipes to achieve a more aggressive sound but again, that's more money. Good luck.
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      05-02-2017, 01:24 PM   #3
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Do you have to have burnt tips?
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      05-02-2017, 02:45 PM   #4
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Really appreciate the replies from both you guys!

In regard to the question on whether I need to have blue tips, I really don't "need" anything haha . I am just really happy to have this car and I am so pleasantly surprised with how these mods are coming along.

Regardless, I had a vision in my mind and now that I have seen that vision come reality, I really like how it turned out. I wish I could have found some 4" tips but alas, 4" with staggered fitment is not available. In a nutshell...yes, I still really want the burnt blue tips. I could be convinced to go chrome but not black or CF since I think they would just get lost.

As far as the recommendations from ndinh, I have been heavily considering the M5/M6 route. Would both work for my car? Those utilize slip on tips right? Or...I am guessing I could have the shop weld on some burnt blue tips...even creating a staggered look? Would those mufflers use the valves to improve drone? Sorry for the million questions...just so much to learn. Can't believe exhaust could be this difficult!
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      05-02-2017, 02:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUGOGRN View Post
Really appreciate the replies from both you guys!

In regard to the question on whether I need to have blue tips, I really don't "need" anything haha . I am just really happy to have this car and I am so pleasantly surprised with how these mods are coming along.

Regardless, I had a vision in my mind and now that I have seen that vision come reality, I really like how it turned out. I wish I could have found some 4" tips but alas, 4" with staggered fitment is not available. In a nutshell...yes, I still really want the burnt blue tips. I could be convinced to go chrome but not black or CF since I think they would just get lost.

As far as the recommendations from ndinh, I have been heavily considering the M5/M6 route. Would both work for my car? Those utilize slip on tips right? Or...I am guessing I could have the shop weld on some burnt blue tips...even creating a staggered look? Would those mufflers use the valves to improve drone? Sorry for the million questions...just so much to learn. Can't believe exhaust could be this difficult!
M5/M6 mufflers are identical except for the hangers which any shop can move. Yes, the OE tips are pressed on so they can easily be changed out. OE tips are on the small side ~3" so I went with 3.5's. You can use your existing vacuum lines to control the valves, however, you'll need to get the exhaustmeister to control it remotely. I had my valves open this weekend and had to close the drivers side yesterday because the constant vibration was annoying me so now only one side is open. I'm using a wire to hold it open. Keep in mind, OE M5/M6 mufflers are not that loud to begin with but definitely better than stock.
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      05-02-2017, 03:15 PM   #6
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Damn...I didn't realize you had the M mufflers on your car. This definitely sounds like an option. I have heard about exhaustmeister too so will look into that. Are you able to control all valves with your exhaustmeister or are you manually doing that?

Also, do you think you could have gone 4" tips or would that put them too close to each other? I was looking at pics of your ride and it would seem that 4" may be too big.
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      05-02-2017, 03:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUGOGRN View Post
Damn...I didn't realize you had the M mufflers on your car. This definitely sounds like an option. I have heard about exhaustmeister too so will look into that. Are you able to control all valves with your exhaustmeister or are you manually doing that?

Also, do you think you could have gone 4" tips or would that put them too close to each other? I was looking at pics of your ride and it would seem that 4" may be too big.
M5 or m6 are your best best, but you wont be able to use 4" tips - the outlets are too close together. If you cut off the exhaust outlets just behind the valve you should be able to have your installer weld on a set of 3-3.5" tips of your choosing and create the staggered look. Not sure how the smaller size tips will look inside the diffuser you have.

All aftermarket exhaust will have some drone, except maybe the meistershaft valved systems. You could buy that and use whatever tips you want. I'm not sure if they offer blue tips, but the meistershaft is pricey, like 5K for a new valved system

There is no perfect option for what you are trying to do, anything and everything will be a compromise of sorts. Your top 2 priorities - 4" blue tips and no drone - may not be feasible. Unless you are willing to spring for the meistershaft
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      05-02-2017, 03:55 PM   #8
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You guys are frickn wealth of knowledge. So couple follow up questions.

1. You had mentioned all aftermarket systems have drone but would that be inclusive of the m6/m5 set up? Or since they have the valves they would have almost no drone as well? I am thinking that I already like the 3.5" tips so this is something I could definitely make work!

2. Is Meisterschaft low drone because of the valve set up? So basically nothing with the valves will reduce drone?

These guys make a quad 4" set up with blue tips. Even though their price is much better than Akrapovic, it's still sadly out of my range. Just wish they did an axle back. You guys ever heard of this company?
http://www.fi-exhaust.com/product/bmw/f12-f13_650i.html

Lastly...any thoughts on reasonable prices to pay for an m6/m5 exhaust set up? Ideally I would just do axle back right? Or should I go full cat back?

Last edited by MSUGOGRN; 05-02-2017 at 04:07 PM.
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      05-02-2017, 04:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUGOGRN View Post
You guys are frickn wealth of knowledge. So couple follow up questions.

1. You had mentioned all aftermarket systems have drone but would that be inclusive of the m6/m5 set up? Or since they have the valves they would have almost no drone as well? I am thinking that I already like the 3.5" tips so this is something I could definitely make work!

2. Is Meisterschaft low drone because of the valve set up? So basically nothing with the valves will reduce drone?

These guys make a quad 4" set up with blue tips. Even though their price is much better than Akrapovic, it's still sadly out of my range. Just wish they did an axle back. You guys ever heard of this company?
http://www.fi-exhaust.com/product/bmw/f12-f13_650i.html

Lastly...any thoughts on reasonable prices to pay for an m6/m5 exhaust set up? Ideally I would just do axle back right? Or should I go full cat back?
All you need is axleback. You will have no or almost no drone with m5/m6 because of the valve. Yes, Meistershaft is low drone because of the valves. ideal setup would be m exhaust plus downpipes, but I dont think anyone makes downpipes for the 650.
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      05-02-2017, 04:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUGOGRN View Post
You guys are frickn wealth of knowledge. So couple follow up questions.

1. You had mentioned all aftermarket systems have drone but would that be inclusive of the m6/m5 set up? Or since they have the valves they would have almost no drone as well? I am thinking that I already like the 3.5" tips so this is something I could definitely make work!

2. Is Meisterschaft low drone because of the valve set up? So basically nothing with the valves will reduce drone?

These guys make a quad 4" set up with blue tips. Even though their price is much better than Akrapovic, it's still sadly out if my range. Just wish they did an axle back. You guys ever heard of this them?
http://www.fi-exhaust.com/product/bmw/f12-f13_650i.html
The M5/M6 setup will have drone if both valves (outer tips) are open. With the valves closed, it's like night and day, completely quiet inside. For your car, if you want to control the valves, you'll need the exhaustmeister. Otherwise, you'll just have to do what most M5 guys (myself included) do which is zip tie or use a wire to hold one or both sides permanently open. I don't have the option of using an exhaustmeister because I have a 640, which doesn't have vacuum lines.
Meisterschaft and other valve setups are low drone because you can close the valves while at cruising speeds.
Never heard of fi-exhaust but it looks pretty awesome, very similar to Armytrix.
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      05-02-2017, 04:26 PM   #11
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Good to know guys. I will keep a look out on the classifieds section in both the 5 and 6 forums to see if anybody is selling one. Someone has one right now in AZ but its the full system. In the meantime, I will just have to enjoy the wonderful exhaust tone and ignore the drone haha.
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      05-02-2017, 04:33 PM   #12
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Try to unplug the asd, it should reduce the drone significantly
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      05-02-2017, 04:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Queen View Post
Try to unplug the asd, it should reduce the drone significantly
Sorry but still a little new to all the acronyms. Is ASD the "active sound design"? Not really sure how to unplug that? Now...there was a vacuum line that was plugged when they did the delete. You are not referring to that are you?

Edit: Never mind. Though I can't find a thread on our forum discussing this, I did find post 45 on the thread/forum in the link below and this is definitely worth a shot. Can't believe that my stereo may be amplifying the drone!

Last edited by MSUGOGRN; 05-02-2017 at 04:59 PM.
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      05-03-2017, 12:41 AM   #14
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Where did you find instructions on how to deactivate the ASD without coding? I thought you had to do it through coding?
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      05-03-2017, 01:07 AM   #15
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Just got back from the garage. Tore apart the inside of my trunk on the driver's side where the module is supposed to be. Couldn't find anything that remotely resembled the same part that the F10 guys have. My local dealership offered me a "deal" to code it off for only $130. At this point I may give it a shot. Before that I am going to ask the M6 and our forums if anybody has ever disconnected the ASD on an F12.
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      05-03-2017, 07:02 AM   #16
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You can get get the full coding treatment from one of the online guys for close to that price.
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      05-03-2017, 08:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
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You can get get the full coding treatment from one of the online guys for close to that price.
Coding is something I still need to research more about. I really would like to do it myself but I just have not had the time to do all the research and understand how it is done. Would you be able to point me in the direction of a thread or a poster who could help?
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      05-03-2017, 08:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUGOGRN View Post
Coding is something I still need to research more about. I really would like to do it myself but I just have not had the time to do all the research and understand how it is done. Would you be able to point me in the direction of a thread or a poster who could help?
a thread to learn how to do it yourself or someone who does coding?
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      05-03-2017, 10:34 AM   #19
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Well for now, I am looking for a quick fix so ideally someone who could help me out remotely. I assume you probably do your own coding but just in case, have you worked with anybody that you recommend? Maybe you can PM me their information?
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      05-03-2017, 11:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUGOGRN View Post
Well for now, I am looking for a quick fix so ideally someone who could help me out remotely. I assume you probably do your own coding but just in case, have you worked with anybody that you recommend? Maybe you can PM me their information?
I don't do my own coding - I usually just go for the basics, so I haven't taken on that learning curve. I cant give you the name of anyone in particular - there are several who are mentioned on these boards.

I'm not aware of a specific coding thread for the 6 series - I think everyone uses the 5 series coding thread without issue.
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      05-03-2017, 11:28 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Queen View Post
Try to unplug the asd, it should reduce the drone significantly
Oliver

After much research I am pretty certain that I don't have active sound in my car. I think it is only in the M6. Is there something else you have seen to the contrary? I also took my trunk apart last night looking for this module on my driver side in the trunk. As you can see there is nothing there resembling this module. Thoughts?
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      05-03-2017, 02:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upstate650 View Post
I don't do my own coding - I usually just go for the basics, so I haven't taken on that learning curve. I cant give you the name of anyone in particular - there are several who are mentioned on these boards.

I'm not aware of a specific coding thread for the 6 series - I think everyone uses the 5 series coding thread without issue.
Thanks. I will go to that forum then. Really appreciate all the advice.
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