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      07-17-2012, 12:31 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblack4083 View Post
From what I understand, this car is not meant to be a CLS or A7/S7 competitor.

If you look at the price point of the 640i, it is within 1000 of the Panamera AND has more power. I'm sure we can all agree the Panamera's interior is extremely luxurious but the 6GC's interior is a work of art. It not only has quality materials like the Panamera but is actually styled in a more fluid manor.

It seems BMW has been trying to go "upmarket" with most of its products.
There are few people (in this price point) that would feel a BMW is worth more than a Porsche. Sorry, the fact is that when people are paying a premium price they want a "premium" brand, which is probably why the Porsche Panamera has done so well in this market.
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      07-17-2012, 01:01 AM   #46
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Well in malaysia ppl will start bashing over how expensive d car is.. Bla bla. U wont ever see a comment tat is positive..
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      07-17-2012, 01:47 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
What BMW is smoking is that this car is going to compete with the Panamera, not the CLS or A7. While the CLS and A7 are directly taken off the E-class and A6 platform, the 6GC is somewhat indirectly taken off the f10 platform. Really, it is a stretched version of the f12 platform, which shares some parts with the f10. I'm not saying I agree with where they're coming from, but that's where they're coming from.

I do believe the 6GC is the best looking car in the entire BMW lineup, but the excessive sharing of engines/tranny/etc.. among the M cars has gone overboard now. M now is nothing different than AMG.
+1
And I'm getting bored of the argument that the car engine is the sole reason for a car to be expensive it's called a luxury car for a reason.

First people cry at BMW for adding ///M badge on everything then they cry about the price for the top of the line car being expensive.
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      07-17-2012, 06:18 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999
Pretty interesting how everyone here knows the pricing and knows the performance and knows that they would pick the Panamera over this car...even though the car is not priced yet and no performance data exists. Clairvoyant crowd I tell you.

PS - BMW, please please PLEASE make the sunroof optional. I'll gladly skip the CF roof....
The M6 is already overpriced for its performance.

I'd rather look into something more exotic in that price range.
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      07-17-2012, 06:32 AM   #49
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      07-17-2012, 07:26 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACSE90
Flagship Model? I thought that was reserved for the M5.
Great question. How about that recent article about the dilution of the M brand? This has that written all over it! What happens to the other models when the M6 GC is released? How will the M5 be positioned in the lineup... How will it be positioned as a classic car 25 years from now when there was so much obscurity in the lineup in 2014? I'm just a bit concerned with the direction that M is going on this one, so I'm not sure how I feel about it. Give us a M-performance model, yes. But ANOTHER M model? This isn't AMG for God's sake...
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      07-17-2012, 09:18 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by GSE21 View Post
This isn't AMG for God's sake...
That's exactly what this is...
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      07-17-2012, 10:34 AM   #52
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AMG.

Another M.

Great...
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      07-17-2012, 10:46 AM   #53
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I think quite a few of you have misunderstood what BMWs intentions seem to be with the entire 6 series line. The 6 series has been moved up in class. Although the GC may indirectly compete with the CLS and A7 it's main focus is and will be the Panamera. Check the numbers and check the stats, (that are available) and you will see that BMW is aimed squarely at Porsche on this one. The GC will be like that of the Panamera, if you can't afford it keep it moving...
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      07-17-2012, 10:53 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI6
the question is not so much whether the M6GC will be worth the money as much as will people go out and spend that much money for a BMW.............
Why not ?
Why would spending "that much money" on a Porsche be a better spend than on a BMW ?
In fact, I'd rather spend that much money on a BMW rather than a Porsche especially in the case of the GC vs Panamera. That however, is my personal taste.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MI6
BTW.......One clue to this could be M6 Vert. sales. If one does a search for them on AutoTrader.com you can find a LOT of them unsold-not a good sign.
That can be said for a number of high end cars from a number of manufacturers. There are quite a few R8's including GT's available online and sitting on showroom floors and the GT was reported as sold out....
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      07-17-2012, 11:14 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judah
Quote:
Originally Posted by MI6
the question is not so much whether the M6GC will be worth the money as much as will people go out and spend that much money for a BMW.............
Why not ?
Why would spending "that much money" on a Porsche be a better spend than on a BMW ?
In fact, I'd rather spend that much money on a BMW rather than a Porsche especially in the case of the GC vs Panamera. That however, is my personal taste.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MI6
BTW.......One clue to this could be M6 Vert. sales. If one does a search for them on AutoTrader.com you can find a LOT of them unsold-not a good sign.
That can be said for a number of high end cars from a number of manufacturers. There are quite a few R8's including GT's available online and sitting on showroom floors and the GT was reported as sold out....
Think better before posting.

The R8 has been out for years now- the GT for at least a year- so yes, one would expect quite a few used examples and new to be up for sale.

But the M6 vert has been on sale here for 3 WEEKS! yet there are more than plenty available. PROBABLY NOT A GOOD SIGN.

Again, I think it is an awesome car.
Just saying I don't think the American consumer considers BMW in the same class as Porsche so this could be a problem.

Now China- that's a whole other story and clearly Munich does not have to worry about US sales as much due to growth in other markets.

Put down the cool-aid Judah. I like BMW as much as anyone else on this forum- I just question the wisdom of it's price point.......
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      07-17-2012, 11:25 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
What BMW is smoking is that this car is going to compete with the Panamera, not the CLS or A7. While the CLS and A7 are directly taken off the E-class and A6 platform, the 6GC is somewhat indirectly taken off the f10 platform. Really, it is a stretched version of the f12 platform, which shares some parts with the f10. I'm not saying I agree with where they're coming from, but that's where they're coming from.

I do believe the 6GC is the best looking car in the entire BMW lineup, but the excessive sharing of engines/tranny/etc.. among the M cars has gone overboard now. M now is nothing different than AMG.
How is there a bigger difference from 5-series to 6-series GC than from E-class to CLS? The 5-series and 6 GC have identical engines and transmission, and the GC has the same interior as the regular 6-series. If anything, the CLS is the only Mercedes with that exterior and interior.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the CLS, A7, and 6 GC are just sedans underneath with much better looking exteriors and interiors. With this in mind, the fact that the 640i costs more than a CLS550 and Panamera V6 is ridiculous.

I think the 6-series and 6-series GC are BMW's best looking cars as well, but well equipped versions push $95,000-$100,000, and frankly, I don't think they're worth it.
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      07-17-2012, 01:18 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Mahzari View Post
How is there a bigger difference from 5-series to 6-series GC than from E-class to CLS? The 5-series and 6 GC have identical engines and transmission, and the GC has the same interior as the regular 6-series. If anything, the CLS is the only Mercedes with that exterior and interior.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the CLS, A7, and 6 GC are just sedans underneath with much better looking exteriors and interiors. With this in mind, the fact that the 640i costs more than a CLS550 and Panamera V6 is ridiculous.

I think the 6-series and 6-series GC are BMW's best looking cars as well, but well equipped versions push $95,000-$100,000, and frankly, I don't think they're worth it.
I agree with you that they are just "fancy" sedans underneath.

I disagree with your CLS/E-class argument. The 6GC is sig more expensive to build than a F10. In fact, it is more expensive to build than a 6er coupe. Think of it as a f13 with 2 extra "couple-style" doors. The minimalized B-pillar, the frameless windows, the integrated seatbelt, independent front seats - that stuff ain't cheap. The CLS/ A7 are simply "fastback" sedans (as opposed to "notchback" sedans) - 4 door sedans with a sloped greenhouse. Not very much different than a jaguar XF.

The 6GC is really more 6 than it is 5. Ppl here can't wrap their heads around the pricing and keep referencing the shared engine/tranny - but every car in the entire lineup has the same engine/tranny from 1er to 7er.
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      07-17-2012, 02:32 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI6
Think better before posting.

The R8 has been out for years now- the GT for at least a year- so yes, one would expect quite a few used examples and new to be up for sale.

But the M6 vert has been on sale here for 3 WEEKS! yet there are more than plenty available. PROBABLY NOT A GOOD SIGN.

Again, I think it is an awesome car.
Just saying I don't think the American consumer considers BMW in the same class as Porsche so this could be a problem.

Now China- that's a whole other story and clearly Munich does not have to worry about US sales as much due to growth in other markets.

Put down the cool-aid Judah. I like BMW as much as anyone else on this forum- I just question the wisdom of it's price point.......
Really, what's with the super emotional reply post and what does, "think better before you post" mean ?

How about you read better before you reply post. I did not mention "USED" R8's, GT or otherwise. The vehicles I referred to are all new as can be seen on cars.com. Also note I wrote, "a number of high end manufacturers". I used the Audi R8 as an example because it was reported as being "Sold Out", is that a sore spot for you ?

Currently, alot of high end new cars are sitting on the floor unsold due to a poor almost worldwide economy the fact that they've just been introduced to the market or have been here for 2+ years doesn't matter.

Now here in the US by me, the three closest dealers have sold their M6 convertibles before they hit the floor. I think you are making quite a few incorrect assumptions about American consumers as I am one and do NOT agree with your beliefs about American consumers....

What the hell are you talking about Kool Aid,(with a K not a C) for, grow up and use grown up words to convey....
Do you even know what you are saying when you write that ? Do you know the history of that statement ?
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      07-17-2012, 04:56 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
I agree with you that they are just "fancy" sedans underneath.

I disagree with your CLS/E-class argument. The 6GC is sig more expensive to build than a F10. In fact, it is more expensive to build than a 6er coupe. Think of it as a f13 with 2 extra "couple-style" doors. The minimalized B-pillar, the frameless windows, the integrated seatbelt, independent front seats - that stuff ain't cheap. The CLS/ A7 are simply "fastback" sedans (as opposed to "notchback" sedans) - 4 door sedans with a sloped greenhouse. Not very much different than a jaguar XF.

The 6GC is really more 6 than it is 5. Ppl here can't wrap their heads around the pricing and keep referencing the shared engine/tranny - but every car in the entire lineup has the same engine/tranny from 1er to 7er.
I still don't see why you're saying the CLS isn't as different as the 6 GC. Every single piece of the interior and exterior, down to the rims, are completely unique for the CLS. They are not available on the E-class sedan or coupe. The same cannot be said about the 6-series GC, which shares bumpers, headlights, rims, dashboards, etc. with the "regular" 6. I'm not saying the car is ugly, or even that the CLS is better looking, but at least it's difference. My only point is that there's a better sense of value in the CLS, because more things are changed, than in the GC.

6-series Coupe interior:


6-series Gran Coupe interior:


E-class Sedan interior:


CLS-class Coupe interior:
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      07-17-2012, 07:16 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Mahzari View Post
I still don't see why you're saying the CLS isn't as different as the 6 GC. Every single piece of the interior and exterior, down to the rims, are completely unique for the CLS. They are not available on the E-class sedan or coupe. The same cannot be said about the 6-series GC, which shares bumpers, headlights, rims, dashboards, etc. with the "regular" 6. I'm not saying the car is ugly, or even that the CLS is better looking, but at least it's difference. My only point is that there's a better sense of value in the CLS, because more things are changed, than in the GC.
With all due respect, the issue with the above argument is that the E-Class coupe is not in the same league as the new 6er coupe. It's steps below, in fact. The 6er is leagues above the 5er, in terms of fit and finish of interior materials, even without going Individual. Whereas the E-Class coupe is a middle of the road Benz.

So the 6er GC is based on a 6er coupe, which is in a different class than a 5 series. The CLS is in a league of its own, but it's based on a lower model than the 6er GC. It is true that nothing in the CLS remotely resembles an E-Class, however it is also true that nothing in a 6er GC (or 6er Coupe for that matter) resembles a 5-Series. That's the real comparison I would suggest to consider if going this route.

I agree with all those who say the 6er GC is aiming for the Panamera rather than the CLS or A7. Whether it hits that mark, is a whole different topic. In this case, it is the M6 GC vs. Panamera Turbo or Turbo S, I would suppose.
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      07-17-2012, 08:01 PM   #61
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With all due respect, the issue with the above argument is that the E-Class coupe is not in the same league as the new 6er coupe. It's steps below, in fact. The 6er is leagues above the 5er, in terms of fit and finish of interior materials, even without going Individual. Whereas the E-Class coupe is a middle of the road Benz.

So the 6er GC is based on a 6er coupe, which is in a different class than a 5 series. The CLS is in a league of its own, but it's based on a lower model than the 6er GC. It is true that nothing in the CLS remotely resembles an E-Class, however it is also true that nothing in a 6er GC (or 6er Coupe for that matter) resembles a 5-Series. That's the real comparison I would suggest to consider if going this route.

I agree with all those who say the 6er GC is aiming for the Panamera rather than the CLS or A7. Whether it hits that mark, is a whole different topic. In this case, it is the M6 GC vs. Panamera Turbo or Turbo S, I would suppose.
I understand the E-class Coupe is lower than the E-class Sedan which is lower than the CLS. I also understand the 6-series is above the 5-series, but how is the 6 GC so much better than the regular 6?

I don't see what makes the 6 GC so much better than a CLS or A7.
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      07-17-2012, 10:24 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Mahzari View Post
I understand the E-class Coupe is lower than the E-class Sedan which is lower than the CLS. I also understand the 6-series is above the 5-series, but how is the 6 GC so much better than the regular 6?

I don't see what makes the 6 GC so much better than a CLS or A7.
According to currently released pricing of the 640i GC, it's only $3k dearer than a 640i Coupe, and significantly less than the 640i vert. So price-wise, it's positioned as 'slightly better' than the Coupe (subjective of course).

I own 2 Benzes - an 09 SLK300 and a '12 GL550. I can honestly say the tech is outdated in MB vs BMW. The 6er interior is one of the most beautiful interiors of any car available today. The CLS is not up to par tech-wise or interior-wise, in my humble opinion. I don't even consider the A7 because, again in my opinion having shopped Audis before buying an X6 and then a GL550, Audi interiors feel cheap in comparison to both MB and BMW in similar level cars.

If you have sat inside or have driven a Panamera, the interior is top-notch, and the 6er GC is similar in luxury (and above in tech) to a Panamera. They also have similar pricing. I really think in terms of theses factors, that the 6er GC and Panamera are both in a class above the CLS and A7.
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      07-18-2012, 12:20 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahzari View Post
I understand the E-class Coupe is lower than the E-class Sedan which is lower than the CLS. I also understand the 6-series is above the 5-series, but how is the 6 GC so much better than the regular 6?

I don't see what makes the 6 GC so much better than a CLS or A7.
Let me try to explain it:

6 series is a higher class than the CLS or A7 class so that's why the 6GC is in a higher class than the CLS and A7 because it's based on it and not based on the 5 series unlike the other 2 which are based on lower class.

In order for MB and Audi to compete with the 6 GC they need to introduce a new segment. You need to stop looking at the GC as another 4 door-coupe car just like the CLS/A7 because they share some design elements just like you wouldn't compare a 6er with a CL just because they are 2+2 luxury coupes.
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      07-18-2012, 07:28 AM   #64
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Everything you guys have mentioned here is correct. All the comparisons and data.

But here's the most important fact and the most realistic fact (lol). Anyone (or most people) with $100,000 to blow on an automobile will probably not be looking at BMW. The customer doesn't care how difficult the car is to build or the amount of luxury it offers.

Will you spend $60,000 on a fully-fully loaded Acura RL? i dont think so, no matter how much features and luxury Acura adds to it, no one is thinking "Acura" when they have $60,000 to blow.
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      07-18-2012, 09:47 AM   #65
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According to currently released pricing of the 640i GC, it's only $3k dearer than a 640i Coupe, and significantly less than the 640i vert. So price-wise, it's positioned as 'slightly better' than the Coupe (subjective of course).

I own 2 Benzes - an 09 SLK300 and a '12 GL550. I can honestly say the tech is outdated in MB vs BMW. The 6er interior is one of the most beautiful interiors of any car available today. The CLS is not up to par tech-wise or interior-wise, in my humble opinion. I don't even consider the A7 because, again in my opinion having shopped Audis before buying an X6 and then a GL550, Audi interiors feel cheap in comparison to both MB and BMW in similar level cars.

If you have sat inside or have driven a Panamera, the interior is top-notch, and the 6er GC is similar in luxury (and above in tech) to a Panamera. They also have similar pricing. I really think in terms of theses factors, that the 6er GC and Panamera are both in a class above the CLS and A7.
I've drive a Panamera 4S and a 2012 CLS550, and I have the say the Panamera did feel a little better put together with nicer materials. I've never driven a 6 or 6 GC, so I guess that's why I'm having trouble believing they're at the Panamera level.

I guess the next step is to drive a 650i and see how it compares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyGeeGee View Post
Let me try to explain it:

6 series is a higher class than the CLS or A7 class so that's why the 6GC is in a higher class than the CLS and A7 because it's based on it and not based on the 5 series unlike the other 2 which are based on lower class.

In order for MB and Audi to compete with the 6 GC they need to introduce a new segment. You need to stop looking at the GC as another 4 door-coupe car just like the CLS/A7 because they share some design elements just like you wouldn't compare a 6er with a CL just because they are 2+2 luxury coupes.
That makes sense. I was previously looking at it like 6 is based on the 5 (much, much better than the 5) and the GC is just bigger (same interior, lights, rims, etc.), but it looks like I really do have to see how nice the new GC is. The CL analogy is also very true, so I see your point.

Thanks
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      07-18-2012, 10:59 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Whostheboss
But here's the most important fact and the most realistic fact (lol). Anyone (or most people) with $100,000 to blow on an automobile will probably not be looking at BMW. The customer doesn't care how difficult the car is to build or the amount of luxury it offers.
What would those who have $100k to "blow" on an automobile be looking at ?
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