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      07-10-2012, 04:02 AM   #23
manicm
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Originally Posted by Judah View Post
Considering the M6 convertible/coupes actual competition is now the Bentley GT V8 convertible and coupe, CL63 and SL63 it's weight is not bad at all. With the exception of the newly designed SL the M6s are lighter than the others. When compared to the Jags and Astons it's heavier yet *performs better and comes with more bells and whistle than are even offered on the two respective brands.

I really don't think BMW has "lost their way" or "are on the wrong path". I think BMW has decided to move into a market that they previously ignored. This fact seems to be hard to swallow or understand for some people. They offer quite a few sedans and coupes in the Z, 1, 3 and upcoming 4 range that meet or exceed sportscar "performance". Seriously, look at the Audi R8 v8 vs the e92 BMW M3 if you don't know what I mean. The M6 is not a track car but if you put it on a track against its competitors I bet you it'll do very well.
So in other words then, save a crapload of your money, and buy a 640d M-Sport instead.
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      07-10-2012, 06:09 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by manicm
So in other words then, save a crapload of your money, and buy a 640d M-Sport instead.
If that's for you then by all means. If you think a 640d is going to perform as well as a M6 you have been mislead. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote ?
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      07-10-2012, 06:24 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by M6needed
have had my eyes set on this car for a month. I currently have the 2011 550i. I truly enjoy the smooth ride that the car provides. I haven't driven the M6 yet, however, if the car has 550hp and is still smooth and is a convertible, I think I will be very happy. What do you guys think? The only thing that has held me back is the price! List is 125 fully loaded, that's a lot! 25K more and I could have a fucking Bentley!

You are NOT getting a Bentley GTv8 for $150k and I assume you haven't actually driven the GT, v8 or otherwise. It doesn't feel as good as a 650i when driving let alone what the M6(probably) feels like.
I've driven the GT coupe and convertible extensively, (never owned either) and people pay attention, (something I could care less about because I'm not that vain) but IMO, when compared to a 650i the GT loses. I'm not talking about subjective things like looks of the interior and exterior, I'm talking about package against package.
People have the preconceived notion that if a car cost $xxx it has to be the best and better, (they can't explain why they feel that way or believe what they believe) than a car that cost $xx. I'm here to tell you, that is not true.
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      07-10-2012, 11:15 AM   #26
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This forum is extremely biased. I never been a fan of the newer m5 and m6 but some people on the forum said they loved it before pictures even came out or even reviews but this is an BMW car forum but I feel BMW owners are one of the biased owners. And I own an BMW myself
very indeed. I commented on how ugly the F30 is and my account was banned! seriously?
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      07-10-2012, 11:17 AM   #27
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but all in all, very important news from here. The 6GC is now my fav BMW
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      07-10-2012, 02:47 PM   #28
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The 6 is a GT car. Period. The M version of it is just what the car ought to be be in its basic form anyway to compete with Aston et al. From what I've seen, once you get above an M5, M means little other More revenue for BMW.

If BMW want to produce a big, powerful car/truck, then just make one. Save the "M" designation for things that truly can carry the sporting mantle. Top speeds, acceleration, cornering g-forces etc. just don't seem all that important really in a wingless 2.5 ton vehicle of any sort.
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      07-11-2012, 12:18 AM   #29
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I's funny how most people who are saying this new M6 doesn't deserve the M badge can't afford to buy one. The M6 is a car for people who wants to show off that they have money and don't care if the car can do laps in record breaking times. BMW know their targeted customers and that's why they offer the M6.

I don't understand all the outcry about the weight of the car when so many people cry for an M7 to be made.
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      07-11-2012, 05:30 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Judah View Post
If that's for you then by all means. If you think a 640d is going to perform as well as a M6 you have been mislead. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I wrote ?
You're taking me too literally, what I said was partly ironic, and I never implied that an M6 would outperform a 640d, but my literal argument is this:

If you're espousing and endorsing BMW's stance that the M6 is targeting a different audience to traditional M-buyers, and is veered more as a super-GT, then why go through the expensive pain of acquiring and running one, when arguably the ultimate GT in the range would be the 640d which has supercar performance with hatchback economy? And you can add the M-Sport and or/ the optional active damper package for an edgier drive?

I've sensed BMW drivers/owners (of which I'm one) are slightly lacking in humour and react quite strongly to the feintest whim of criticism.
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      07-11-2012, 08:41 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manicm
You're taking me too literally, what I said was partly ironic, and I never implied that an M6 would outperform a 640d, but my literal argument is this:

If you're espousing and endorsing BMW's stance that the M6 is targeting a different audience to traditional M-buyers, and is veered more as a super-GT, then why go through the expensive pain of acquiring and running one, when arguably the ultimate GT in the range would be the 640d which has supercar performance with hatchback economy? And you can add the M-Sport and or/ the optional active damper package for an edgier drive?

I've sensed BMW drivers/owners (of which I'm one) are slightly lacking in humour and react quite strongly to the feintest whim of criticism.


I think you're getting a little emotional. It was not a strong or angry response I simply responded to your comment. If you meant it as some form of humor a smiley face would help denote that since no one on the Internet can see your face or hear your voice in order to detect your intentions.
Whether you meant it as figurative or literal you used the same scenario in both of your post, 640d vs M6. Whats the pain of aquiring and running a M6 over a 640d, cash, gas mileage ? If you cant afford it dont buy just that simple. I don't consider a 640d the ultimate 6 but i guess you do and thats fine. I consider the M6 the ultimate 6 and that is the reason the M6 is offered. Your definition of ultimate is different from the next mans definition of ultimate. To me there's no comparison and my initial comment to you still stands. All of these "super" GT cars have variable model trim levels, why would BMW not. Mercedes has the CL550, CL63 & CL65. Bentley has the GT v12, v8,(and convertibles of each) & soon the "Speed" and both have variations within them similar to BMWs M performance.
With that being said, I still don't understand your point figuratively or literally.
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      07-11-2012, 10:02 AM   #32
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I am not understanding what reviews you were looking at for last generation M6. Because most all comparisons claimed it was a fat pig when compared to the P cars. The previous generation M6 was no light weight sports car when in reality it was a heavy GT car with cramped back seats. The difference between new m6 is more capable then the last one all the while being more luxurious. I believe BMW is trying to compete against CL 63Amg and Bentley coupe rather then P cars.

That is why you will be seeing more raw performance like the 1M in smaller series like the next 1M, 2M and even M3/M4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3alabama View Post
Everyone keeps saying this is NOT a sports car which is true but-with everything he said in that test, especially about the car wanting to be "gently guided" through twisty mountain roads, I feel that is the purpose of the non-M 550i car. A smooth handling luxury cruiser with plenty of pull when needed.

Previous M6/m5 was tight, aggressive and handled extremely well in corners. Weighed in at 3800 pounds and was a night and day difference over the 650.

Other than buying it for the M-badge, I don't see why you would buy this 100k plus m6 for gentle cruising which is clearly what it does best.

430hp in the regular 650i vert will offer all the luxury and ride comfort and straight line pull.

I am afraid that its going to be a tougher sell to sell the M line when they are not nearly as much of a departure from the regular cars than before.
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      07-11-2012, 10:48 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Kayani_1
I am not understanding what reviews you were looking at for last generation M6. Because most all comparisons claimed it was a fat pig when compared to the P cars. The previous generation M6 was no light weight sports car when in reality it was a heavy GT car with cramped back seats. The difference between new m6 is more capable then the last one all the while being more luxurious. I believe BMW is trying to compete against CL 63Amg and Bentley coupe rather then P cars.

That is why you will be seeing more raw performance like the 1M in smaller series like the next 1M, 2M and even M3/M4.

+1
I completely Agree
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      07-11-2012, 02:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Judah View Post
I think you're getting a little emotional. It was not a strong or angry response I simply responded to your comment. If you meant it as some form of humor a smiley face would help denote that since no one on the Internet can see your face or hear your voice in order to detect your intentions.
Whether you meant it as figurative or literal you used the same scenario in both of your post, 640d vs M6. Whats the pain of aquiring and running a M6 over a 640d, cash, gas mileage ? If you cant afford it dont buy just that simple. I don't consider a 640d the ultimate 6 but i guess you do and thats fine. I consider the M6 the ultimate 6 and that is the reason the M6 is offered. Your definition of ultimate is different from the next mans definition of ultimate. To me there's no comparison and my initial comment to you still stands. All of these "super" GT cars have variable model trim levels, why would BMW not. Mercedes has the CL550, CL63 & CL65. Bentley has the GT v12, v8,(and convertibles of each) & soon the "Speed" and both have variations within them similar to BMWs M performance.
With that being said, I still don't understand your point figuratively or literally.
Firstly yes, I am guilty what I've been accusing others of - I perhaps have been taking all this a bit too seriously but do indulge me for a moment. This is a motoring forum after all, so let's have some clean and wholesome literary bloodsports!

Well how many M6 owners will take their cars to the track? I bet fewer than the digits on your hands. Yes I know other makes also offer similar choices, that does not make them necessarily right. And from every review I've read the Bentley V8 is better than the V12!

My case about the new 6 is this - by BMW's own admission the 5-series was targeted towards people in their mid-40s to 50s - this is fact. So where does that leave the 6? In normal guise it is arguably a much bigger and bulkier looking car than its predecessor - which looks as compact as a 911 compared to the new one - you simply cannot get away from this. So I would guess that officially or not, the 6 is targeted toward an even older audience. Elegant it may be, sporty it is patently not. And I have to repeat, that weight, the new 5 and 6 are unforgivably heavy cars, although they both excel.

If I wanted an M-car with space I'd wait for the new M4 (if that's what they'll call the replacement for the 2-door M3), or the 4-door M3. And either model will likely have more interior space than the 6!

I'm not knocking the M6, mind, but I am playing devil's advocate. Yes there may be people who want and will pay for such a car, but I have to beg the question, why?

We all have different tastes, and I stand by my opinion that the ultimate 6 for now is a 640d, be it in Coupe, Cabrio or Gran Coupe guise.
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      07-11-2012, 04:33 PM   #35
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In regard to weight, here's a copy and paste of what I wrote on page one;
"Considering the M6 convertible/coupes actual competition is now the Bentley GT V8 convertible and coupe, CL63 and SL63 it's weight is not bad at all. With the exception of the newly designed SL the M6s are much lighter than the others. When compared to the Jags and Astons it's heavier yet *performs better and comes with more bells and whistle than are even offered on the two respective brands."

I can't tell why others would but I can tell you why I would buy an M6 over the rest of the 6 range, (not that there's anything wrong with the rest of the range):
Carbon roof (coupe, tech aside I luv the look)
Wider stance = great road presence
Wider wheels and tires
Carbon trimmed interior
M seats
More power/torque(without aftermarket add ons)
7 speed DCT(although the 8speed is nice)
0-60 in atleast 3.7(coupe) considering its M5 counterpart can do it
This is a short list, I left alot out....

This car can go full on(raw power with great handling in comparison) to full off(max luxury). To me this is a more refined mature mans/woman's M3 now M4. Someone who doesn't care to track the car and drives at or below the speed limit mostly but on occasion reverts back to his/her youth on an empty stretch of highway.
That's where I am.
I'm the same guy that would buy a CL63, I just like the BMW better.
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      07-12-2012, 02:22 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judah
Quote:
Originally Posted by M6needed
have had my eyes set on this car for a month. I currently have the 2011 550i. I truly enjoy the smooth ride that the car provides. I haven't driven the M6 yet, however, if the car has 550hp and is still smooth and is a convertible, I think I will be very happy. What do you guys think? The only thing that has held me back is the price! List is 125 fully loaded, that's a lot! 25K more and I could have a fucking Bentley!

You are NOT getting a Bentley GTv8 for $150k and I assume you haven't actually driven the GT, v8 or otherwise. It doesn't feel as good as a 650i when driving let alone what the M6(probably) feels like.
I've driven the GT coupe and convertible extensively, (never owned either) and people pay attention, (something I could care less about because I'm not that vain) but IMO, when compared to a 650i the GT loses. I'm not talking about subjective things like looks of the interior and exterior, I'm talking about package against package.
People have the preconceived notion that if a car cost $xxx it has to be the best and better, (they can't explain why they feel that way or believe what they believe) than a car that cost $xx. I'm here to tell you, that is not true.
Agreed. Test driving the M6 this weekend
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      07-12-2012, 02:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judah View Post
In regard to weight, here's a copy and paste of what I wrote on page one;
"Considering the M6 convertible/coupes actual competition is now the Bentley GT V8 convertible and coupe, CL63 and SL63 it's weight is not bad at all. With the exception of the newly designed SL the M6s are much lighter than the others. When compared to the Jags and Astons it's heavier yet *performs better and comes with more bells and whistle than are even offered on the two respective brands."

I can't tell why others would but I can tell you why I would buy an M6 over the rest of the 6 range, (not that there's anything wrong with the rest of the range):
Carbon roof (coupe, tech aside I luv the look)
Wider stance = great road presence
Wider wheels and tires
Carbon trimmed interior
M seats
More power/torque(without aftermarket add ons)
7 speed DCT(although the 8speed is nice)
0-60 in atleast 3.7(coupe) considering its M5 counterpart can do it
This is a short list, I left alot out....

This car can go full on(raw power with great handling in comparison) to full off(max luxury). To me this is a more refined mature mans/woman's M3 now M4. Someone who doesn't care to track the car and drives at or below the speed limit mostly but on occasion reverts back to his/her youth on an empty stretch of highway.
That's where I am.
I'm the same guy that would buy a CL63, I just like the BMW better.
I'm with you on that one. I just traded a 2012 650i convertible for the M6. I've had a CL600 a couple of years ago and an SL55 and SL500 a few years back. Not track cars but well-built GT cars. I don't usually drive way above the speed limit but sometimes have the urge to drive fast on wide open highways just for the rush. I'm younger than 50s or 60s so I don't necessarily fit the intended market for these cars. But, I love the design and I love the engineering that went into building the M6. And I certainly didn't buy the M6 to impress people or wow them that I can afford one. If I wanted to be blingy, I could have bought a Conti GT, Aston or Ferrari. In fact, I drive my hybrid CT200h more than I do my M6.
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      07-13-2012, 12:44 PM   #38
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I don't have a problem with the technology BMW is using in their cars. But I think they should consider what to put and in which models. Save the luxury/comfort-related things in the base-series and make the M models more reflective of their racing heritage. No more added computers to change the dampers, leave that for the base-series models and have M models use one suspension setup.

.
Sorry, if they followed your advice they'd sell at 5% the level these cars will sell.
One suspension setup? Seriously? So that would have to be a setup that wouldn't be suicidal on the track right? That would mean it would ride like a buckboard on nearly all pubic roadways.

Get a grip on the basic market for expensive cars. Rich people want to buy them and enjoy them. Less than 1% of all M cars ever even see a track and you want to setup them up soley for that purpose?

Last edited by BigHat; 07-16-2012 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Typo
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      07-15-2012, 12:10 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by WhyGeeGee View Post
BMW know their targeted customers and that's why they offer the M6.
I don't understand all the outcry about the weight of the car when so many people cry for an M7 to be made.
Exactly! Bottom line is that BMW thinks the M brand is better used to sell to ... Honestly? People like me.

I'm not going to the track, I don't care about "racing heritage", and you know what? I don't want my wife to complain about my hugely expensive lumber truck that can't haul lumber.

And BMW has figured out that my wife has a big say in my purchase. And that there are probably more of me than people who ... Want a mass-market production race car that they can drive to work? Uh what? Really? Is that what many of you are doing?

If you want a race car, build one. I bet BMW won't care if you put an "//M" on it.

If you won't or can't then be happy with your fun luxury street car like the rest of us.
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      07-24-2012, 02:21 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott

Exactly! Bottom line is that BMW thinks the M brand is better used to sell to ... Honestly? People like me.

I'm not going to the track, I don't care about "racing heritage", and you know what? I don't want my wife to complain about my hugely expensive lumber truck that can't haul lumber.

And BMW has figured out that my wife has a big say in my purchase. And that there are probably more of me than people who ... Want a mass-market production race car that they can drive to work? Uh what? Really? Is that what many of you are doing?

If you want a race car, build one. I bet BMW won't care if you put an "//M" on it.

If you won't or can't then be happy with your fun luxury street car like the rest of us.
What is it with people lately and their "BMW is better because it is softer and if you don't like it you can f$k off" attitude.

Seriously the people complaining don't want race cars they just don't want overweight GT cars. They also want the cars to have more personality. They aren't asking for a car that is incapable of comfortably taking you or your wife to work every day.
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