BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   6Post.com | BMW 6-Series Forum > BMW 6 Series Forum > BMW M6 Forum (F12 / F13)

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-12-2012, 04:48 PM   #23
M3_WC
Colonel
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA

Posts: 2,143
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian19 View Post
Well, how many M6 owners track their cars? This is certainly more for bling factor, even though I believe it will have performance upgrades.


If it were on the M3, I would think it will be abetter application.
Exactly
M3_WC is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 04:49 PM   #24
BMWPower06
A^M=G is nothing w/o the Power of ///M
 
BMWPower06's Avatar
 
Drives: ///M5 & ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington D.C.

Posts: 1,760
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to BMWPower06
I dunno if I'd be able to justify the additional cost of these brakes. It's not just the up front cost that will be ridiculous, but then getting new pads and rotors will likely cost as much as a Chevy Aveo...
__________________
Indianapolis Red BMW ///M5
BMWPower06 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 04:57 PM   #25
MR///M3
e90post veteran
 
MR///M3's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 M3, '09 335, '11 Mini R56
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: central NJ

Posts: 1,384
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06 View Post
I dunno if I'd be able to justify the additional cost of these brakes. It's not just the up front cost that will be ridiculous, but then getting new pads and rotors will likely cost as much as a Chevy Aveo...
Carbon ceramic rotors last MUCH longer than steel ones. So they will be replaced much less often.
__________________
2012 Melbourne Red/Bamboo Novillo E92 M3 - ZCP, ZPP, DCT, BMW Apps, Sat Radio, Heated Seats
Mods- 20" BBS LM DBK, 18" Volk TE37SL, OSS, Arkym, RD Sport, and much more...
Thanks to- PYSpeed -- Morr Wheels -- OSS Designs -- iND-Distribution
MR///M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 04:58 PM   #26
red-sauerkraut
.
 
red-sauerkraut's Avatar
 
Drives: m-car / x-car
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: northern hemisphere

Posts: 3,344
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchnellM3 View Post


I wouldn't want either of those two colors... They're also still putting one of the current style fugly looking calipers in the rear
__________________
Infinite Driving Pleasure
red-sauerkraut is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 05:06 PM   #27
Judah
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: Black E46 M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: New Jeru

Posts: 336
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattmv06
This brake option also comes with a mouth guard to protect your teeth from the steering wheel when you slam on the brakes haha

:
Judah is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 05:08 PM   #28
PhillyNate
BMWCCA #405750
 
PhillyNate's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Philadelphia

Posts: 1,825
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW E92 M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolchu001 View Post
will the free maintenance cover the pads and rotors?
This setup lasts a veeeeeeerrrrrry long time. You might be over the 4 years and 50k miles anyway.
__________________

"what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson
2011 Alpine White BMW M3 6mt ZCP Coupe
2008 Alpine White BMW 328i 6mt Coupe (retired 06/21/11
)

PhillyNate is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 05:43 PM   #29
johnca
Second Lieutenant
 
johnca's Avatar
 
Drives: E46 Slow CSL
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sydney

Posts: 289
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to johnca
Finally, BMW come out with BBK either Carbon Ceramic or Steel they are good anyway, but...... the rear stock!!!!!! is that too expensive to put another 4pistons on BMW?
__________________
johnca is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 06:35 PM   #30
cncmastr
Captain
 
cncmastr's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 318is, E46 M3
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toms River, NJ

Posts: 620
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2005 BMW 330Ci  [0.00]
2007 M Coupe  [0.00]
2004 BMW 330Ci  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to cncmastr
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolchu001 View Post
will the free maintenance cover the pads and rotors?
Shouldn't matter on the rotors, they'll last a billion times longer than conventional steel rotors. Pads though, I don't know how those hold up.
__________________
2006 Interlagos Blue BMW ///M3 | ZCP | Xenon | Nav | Premium | M Texture Alcantara
cncmastr is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 06:41 PM   #31
Envyscorpio
Private First Class
 
Envyscorpio's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LA

Posts: 148
iTrader: (0)

Humm...

I see people upgrading the rear calipers once an aftermarket option is available. Why can't BMW do things right from the beginning?

Color is ok depending on the body color
__________________
[E34 520i | E39 528i | E46 M3 | E90 M3 | F25 X3]
Envyscorpio is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 06:56 PM   #32
Gangsta D
Lieutenant
 
Gangsta D's Avatar
 
Drives: '12 e88 128 vert/ '14 e84 X1 s
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Route 66 [So. Cal]

Posts: 531
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
innovation and improvements for the BMW M division is what makes the company great. Keep the improvements coming!
Gangsta D is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 07:11 PM   #33
clar
Captain
 
clar's Avatar
 
Drives: M5
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Singapore

Posts: 787
iTrader: (0)

I am expecting headline Ring times with these...
__________________

Current Rides: Frozen Grey F10 M5 DCT
- Frozen Grey E92 M3 Sold
- 458 Speciale on order. ETA Oct 2014
clar is offline   Singapore
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 07:46 PM   #34
esqu1re
Lieutenant Colonel
 
esqu1re's Avatar
 
Drives: M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: East Coast

Posts: 1,857
iTrader: (0)

Wow. Looks great. Price is up there, but so are regular brembo upgrades.
__________________


///M Coupe: RPI Scoop, OE Strut, CDV, Volk RE30, SS Brake Lines, Stromung Exhaust
esqu1re is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 07:58 PM   #35
Remonster
Captain
 
Drives: 2013 M3 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 898
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Envyscorpio View Post
I see people upgrading the rear calipers once an aftermarket option is available. Why can't BMW do things right from the beginning?

Color is ok depending on the body color
Why can't BMW do what right? Please the morons who think their big brake kit is giving them some kind of performance advantage on the street? Every BMW I have ever driven has had superb brakes, in terms of stopping power, resistance to fade (except our E90 M3, that thing needs cooling ducts) and feel through the pedal. There are few other companies with brakes as good as BMW.

The reason the rear brakes are small is because the majority of brake force goes to the front of the car, the size of the caliper has little to do with stopping power and a lot to do with heat dissipation. A brake caliper acts like a heat sink, so a bigger one is more resistant to fade, but you can't just stick 8 piston calipers on every car, if it doesn't need to dissipate that much heat you're just adding unnecessary unsprung weight which slows the car down and ruins its ride quality. Having extra unsprung weight even makes a car more jumpy over rough roads.

The next time you think you know better than the engineers at Kia, much less BMW, consider pulling your head out of your ass.
Remonster is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 08:30 PM   #36
Envyscorpio
Private First Class
 
Envyscorpio's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LA

Posts: 148
iTrader: (0)

Wow... Someone is in a bad mood. Your reply is quite harsh considering you don't even know who you're replying to. Have you ever experienced fading on a track before?

I've been to most track on the west coast and been to Nurburgring. My experience with all my M cars are great but the brakes always fade on the track. I even faded them at BMW CCA autoxs... Good for you if your M performs better and brakes are fade free.

Please think twice before you start lecturing someone on physics. Plenty of engineers on this forum. You never know when you'll run into someone with a degree in Engineering on this forum

Fact is BMW cheap out on a 110k car (Costs much more in Europe and double in Asia). Or purposely doing this so people can upgrade to their BMW performance parts. Don't you think?

Oh and I happen to be supplying investment casting component to "much more" Porsche, BMW and VW but unfortunately no Kia. Kia can make a equally priced 135i like car if they want. But would you spend that much on a Kia? Don't know why you think Kia is much less than European cars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Why can't BMW do what right? Please the morons who think their big brake kit is giving them some kind of performance advantage on the street? Every BMW I have ever driven has had superb brakes, in terms of stopping power, resistance to fade (except our E90 M3, that thing needs cooling ducts) and feel through the pedal. There are few other companies with brakes as good as BMW.

The reason the rear brakes are small is because the majority of brake force goes to the front of the car, the size of the caliper has little to do with stopping power and a lot to do with heat dissipation. A brake caliper acts like a heat sink, so a bigger one is more resistant to fade, but you can't just stick 8 piston calipers on every car, if it doesn't need to dissipate that much heat you're just adding unnecessary unsprung weight which slows the car down and ruins its ride quality. Having extra unsprung weight even makes a car more jumpy over rough roads.

The next time you think you know better than the engineers at Kia, much less BMW, consider pulling your head out of your ass.
__________________
[E34 520i | E39 528i | E46 M3 | E90 M3 | F25 X3]

Last edited by Envyscorpio; 02-12-2012 at 09:25 PM. Reason: My reply was too personal.
Envyscorpio is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 08:34 PM   #37
jphughan
Brigadier General
 
jphughan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.75 M3 E92 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 3,012
iTrader: (0)

From what I gather reading about Porsche's carbon ceramics in their forums, evidently the rotors can go up to 100K+ miles without replacement under street and light track use, and the pads can generally go 60K. The problem is that under track use it's really easy to damage carbon ceramics either with heavy use (especially without a proper warmup) or by going off-track and having a piece of debris nick the rotors, which immediately kills them. You also have to be super careful removing wheels, because that too can nick rotors and require them to need replacement immediately.

If you DO need to replace a rotor, they're about $4K EACH on the Porsche side! Oh, and in order to reduce the risk of premature damage/wear on your rotors, you're supposed to replace your pads at 50% life. So the general wisdom is apparently that the extra cost is totally ridiculous for track people between the damage risk and just general wear (lots of track people apparently end up switching back to steel), and on the street the added performance isn't worth the price because you don't need that much braking power and the steel ones are really good anyway. Which means....carbon ceramics aren't really worth it anywhere. The only real benefit most owners seem to enjoy is practically zero brake dust, but that's a huge price to pay for that minor convenience.

Incidentally, a $4K per rotor cost makes me wonder how the carbon ceramic option is "only" $8K when ordering. That's a marginal cost increase of just $2K per wheel over steel brakes, but carbon ceramic rotors and pads cost well over $2K more per wheel to replace compared to their steel counterparts. I'm sure the factory gets a discount, but wow! Either the factory is getting a huge discount when fitting these to new cars and/or ordering the parts individually comes with an enormous markup!
__________________
11 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT | Premium 2 | Convenience | 19" | EDC | Prem Audio | Moonroof | BMW Apps | Vorshlag Adjustable Camber Plates | StopTech ST-60 380mm BBK | Castrol SRF Fluid | ModMyNav.com rear camera | OEM Euro Sunglasses Holder

Last edited by jphughan; 02-12-2012 at 08:56 PM.
jphughan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 09:17 PM   #38
Envyscorpio
Private First Class
 
Envyscorpio's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LA

Posts: 148
iTrader: (0)

Yup! That is why a lot of GT3 owners w/ PCCB who track their cars went with steel rotors and stow their ceramic rotors away till resale of the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
From what I gather reading about Porsche's carbon ceramics in their forums, evidently the rotors can go up to 100K+ miles without replacement under street and light track use, and the pads can generally go 60K. The problem is that under track use it's really easy to damage carbon ceramics either with heavy use (especially without a proper warmup) or by going off-track and having a piece of debris nick the rotors, which immediately kills them. You also have to be super careful removing wheels, because that too can nick rotors and require them to need replacement immediately.

If you DO need to replace a rotor, they're about $4K EACH on the Porsche side! Oh, and in order to reduce the risk of premature damage/wear on your rotors, you're supposed to replace your pads at 50% life. So the general wisdom is apparently that the extra cost is totally ridiculous for track people between the damage risk and just general wear (lots of track people apparently end up switching back to steel), and on the street the added performance isn't worth the price because you don't need that much braking power and the steel ones are really good anyway. Which means....carbon ceramics aren't really worth it anywhere. The only real benefit most owners seem to enjoy is practically zero brake dust, but that's a huge price to pay for that minor convenience.

Incidentally, a $4K per rotor cost makes me wonder how the carbon ceramic option is "only" $8K when ordering. That's a marginal cost increase of just $2K per wheel over steel brakes, but carbon ceramic rotors and pads cost well over $2K more per wheel to replace compared to their steel counterparts. I'm sure the factory gets a discount, but wow! Either the factory is getting a huge discount when fitting these to new cars and/or ordering the parts individually comes with an enormous markup!
__________________
[E34 520i | E39 528i | E46 M3 | E90 M3 | F25 X3]
Envyscorpio is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 09:37 PM   #39
Neema
Major General
 
Neema's Avatar
 
Drives: a few BMWs
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SoCal

Posts: 7,186
iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian19 View Post
Well, how many M6 owners track their cars? This is certainly more for bling factor, even though I believe it will have performance upgrades.


If it were on the M3, I would think it will be abetter application.
+1
Neema is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 10:13 PM   #40
M3Tuner44
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: May 2010
Location: long Island

Posts: 253
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW BRAD View Post
Awesome, but yeah........ big bucks to replace!
Then again if you have the money to buy a new F1x M6 then you could probably afford the upgrade.
M3Tuner44 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 10:25 PM   #41
Doubtful
New Member
 
Drives: ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Socal

Posts: 15
iTrader: (0)

Nice. I wonder if these will be covered under maintenance.
Doubtful is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-12-2012, 10:38 PM   #42
eluder
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: m
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: home

Posts: 309
iTrader: (0)

You guys know these don't make the car suddenly stop faster right? Seems that some people are under this impression, which is false.

Tires (well traction, really) are the weakest link during maximum breaking. These will have no effect on stopping distances.

What they will do however is let you make that same braking maneuver repeatedly over short periods of time with better results that steel discs, which will fade and require a cooldown period to return to maximum effectiveness.

They also last a lot longer.

Also, the colors are lame. The blue is OK, but I shouldn't have to pick between ugly and slightly less ugly and have match them with my car.

edit: Interestingly enough, Boeing says that in their planes, steel breaks last longer with frequent, light applications to slow the plane. When outfitted with CC brakes longer, stronger presses of the brake (the opposite of the method for steel) reduce wear.

Last edited by eluder; 02-12-2012 at 10:46 PM.
eluder is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-13-2012, 12:57 AM   #43
Remonster
Captain
 
Drives: 2013 M3 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 898
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Envyscorpio View Post
Wow... Someone is in a bad mood. Your reply is quite harsh considering you don't even know who you're replying to. Have you ever experienced fading on a track before?

I've been to most track on the west coast and been to Nurburgring. My experience with all my M cars are great but the brakes always fade on the track. I even faded them at BMW CCA autoxs... Good for you if your M performs better and brakes are fade free.

Please think twice before you start lecturing someone on physics. Plenty of engineers on this forum. You never know when you'll run into someone with a degree in Engineering on this forum

Fact is BMW cheap out on a 110k car (Costs much more in Europe and double in Asia). Or purposely doing this so people can upgrade to their BMW performance parts. Don't you think?

Oh and I happen to be supplying investment casting component to "much more" Porsche, BMW and VW but unfortunately no Kia. Kia can make a equally priced 135i like car if they want. But would you spend that much on a Kia? Don't know why you think Kia is much less than European cars.
I wasn't saying the brakes are adequate for track use...anyone who seriously tracks their car would replace them anyways, but for the intended customer the brakes are obviously engineered just fine. Adding extra pistons to the rear brakes would not help EITHER the track junkie OR the regular road user, it would only serve to appease people who love the bling factor of big brakes.

Those are the people I was going off on, because they drive me insane and this forum is full of them. Actual track cars absolutely need big brake kits, but I can't think of anyone who would look at a 4,000+lb, $100,000+ car and think of turning it into a track rat. If you want a track car, why start with something with so many luxuries?

On the point about BMW cheaping out so people go to Performance parts, I agree, but in a less cynical sense I would say they give us more choice. I can have the more hardcore car I want while someone else can have a car with brakes that are cheaper to replace, smaller, lighter, etc. instead of forcing every M6 buyer to have 18" carbon ceramic brakes with 10 pistons at each corner.
Remonster is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-13-2012, 01:39 AM   #44
Nition
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 AW/FR E93 M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bay Area

Posts: 233
iTrader: (0)

I don't understand the need for this. I rarely see people taking their M6 to the track. Why else would you need ceramic brakes other than the track?
Nition is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2011 bmw m6, 2011 m6, 2012 bmw m6, 2012 m6, 2012 m6 coupe, 2013 m6 convertible, 2013 m6 coupe, 2014 bmw m6, 2014 bmw m6 convertible, 2014 bmw m6 coupe, 2014 m6, 2014 m6 convertible, 2014 m6 coupe, bmw carbon ceramic brakes, bmw ceramic brakes, bmw f12, bmw m ceramic brake, bmw m ceramic brakes, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m5 carbon ceramic brakes, bmw m5 ceramic brakes, bmw m6, bmw m6 carbon ceramic brakes, bmw m6 ceramic brakes, bmw m6 forum, bmw m6 forums, f12 m6, m forum, m forums, m6 coupe, m6 forum, m6 forums, new bmw m6, new m6, new m6 coupe

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:29 AM.




6post.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST