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      02-12-2012, 04:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian19 View Post
Well, how many M6 owners track their cars? This is certainly more for bling factor, even though I believe it will have performance upgrades.


If it were on the M3, I would think it will be abetter application.
Exactly
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      02-12-2012, 04:49 PM   #24
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I dunno if I'd be able to justify the additional cost of these brakes. It's not just the up front cost that will be ridiculous, but then getting new pads and rotors will likely cost as much as a Chevy Aveo...
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      02-12-2012, 04:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06 View Post
I dunno if I'd be able to justify the additional cost of these brakes. It's not just the up front cost that will be ridiculous, but then getting new pads and rotors will likely cost as much as a Chevy Aveo...
Carbon ceramic rotors last MUCH longer than steel ones. So they will be replaced much less often.
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      02-12-2012, 04:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchnellM3 View Post


I wouldn't want either of those two colors... They're also still putting one of the current style fugly looking calipers in the rear
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      02-12-2012, 05:06 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattmv06
This brake option also comes with a mouth guard to protect your teeth from the steering wheel when you slam on the brakes haha

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      02-12-2012, 05:08 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolchu001 View Post
will the free maintenance cover the pads and rotors?
This setup lasts a veeeeeeerrrrrry long time. You might be over the 4 years and 50k miles anyway.
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      02-12-2012, 05:43 PM   #29
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Finally, BMW come out with BBK either Carbon Ceramic or Steel they are good anyway, but...... the rear stock!!!!!! is that too expensive to put another 4pistons on BMW?
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      02-12-2012, 06:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolchu001 View Post
will the free maintenance cover the pads and rotors?
Shouldn't matter on the rotors, they'll last a billion times longer than conventional steel rotors. Pads though, I don't know how those hold up.
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      02-12-2012, 06:41 PM   #31
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Humm...

I see people upgrading the rear calipers once an aftermarket option is available. Why can't BMW do things right from the beginning?

Color is ok depending on the body color
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      02-12-2012, 06:56 PM   #32
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innovation and improvements for the BMW M division is what makes the company great. Keep the improvements coming!
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      02-12-2012, 07:11 PM   #33
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I am expecting headline Ring times with these...
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      02-12-2012, 07:46 PM   #34
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Wow. Looks great. Price is up there, but so are regular brembo upgrades.
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      02-12-2012, 07:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Envyscorpio View Post
I see people upgrading the rear calipers once an aftermarket option is available. Why can't BMW do things right from the beginning?

Color is ok depending on the body color
Why can't BMW do what right? Please the morons who think their big brake kit is giving them some kind of performance advantage on the street? Every BMW I have ever driven has had superb brakes, in terms of stopping power, resistance to fade (except our E90 M3, that thing needs cooling ducts) and feel through the pedal. There are few other companies with brakes as good as BMW.

The reason the rear brakes are small is because the majority of brake force goes to the front of the car, the size of the caliper has little to do with stopping power and a lot to do with heat dissipation. A brake caliper acts like a heat sink, so a bigger one is more resistant to fade, but you can't just stick 8 piston calipers on every car, if it doesn't need to dissipate that much heat you're just adding unnecessary unsprung weight which slows the car down and ruins its ride quality. Having extra unsprung weight even makes a car more jumpy over rough roads.

The next time you think you know better than the engineers at Kia, much less BMW, consider pulling your head out of your ass.
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      02-12-2012, 08:30 PM   #36
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Wow... Someone is in a bad mood. Your reply is quite harsh considering you don't even know who you're replying to. Have you ever experienced fading on a track before?

I've been to most track on the west coast and been to Nurburgring. My experience with all my M cars are great but the brakes always fade on the track. I even faded them at BMW CCA autoxs... Good for you if your M performs better and brakes are fade free.

Please think twice before you start lecturing someone on physics. Plenty of engineers on this forum. You never know when you'll run into someone with a degree in Engineering on this forum

Fact is BMW cheap out on a 110k car (Costs much more in Europe and double in Asia). Or purposely doing this so people can upgrade to their BMW performance parts. Don't you think?

Oh and I happen to be supplying investment casting component to "much more" Porsche, BMW and VW but unfortunately no Kia. Kia can make a equally priced 135i like car if they want. But would you spend that much on a Kia? Don't know why you think Kia is much less than European cars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Why can't BMW do what right? Please the morons who think their big brake kit is giving them some kind of performance advantage on the street? Every BMW I have ever driven has had superb brakes, in terms of stopping power, resistance to fade (except our E90 M3, that thing needs cooling ducts) and feel through the pedal. There are few other companies with brakes as good as BMW.

The reason the rear brakes are small is because the majority of brake force goes to the front of the car, the size of the caliper has little to do with stopping power and a lot to do with heat dissipation. A brake caliper acts like a heat sink, so a bigger one is more resistant to fade, but you can't just stick 8 piston calipers on every car, if it doesn't need to dissipate that much heat you're just adding unnecessary unsprung weight which slows the car down and ruins its ride quality. Having extra unsprung weight even makes a car more jumpy over rough roads.

The next time you think you know better than the engineers at Kia, much less BMW, consider pulling your head out of your ass.
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Last edited by Envyscorpio; 02-12-2012 at 09:25 PM. Reason: My reply was too personal.
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      02-12-2012, 08:34 PM   #37
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From what I gather reading about Porsche's carbon ceramics in their forums, evidently the rotors can go up to 100K+ miles without replacement under street and light track use, and the pads can generally go 60K. The problem is that under track use it's really easy to damage carbon ceramics either with heavy use (especially without a proper warmup) or by going off-track and having a piece of debris nick the rotors, which immediately kills them. You also have to be super careful removing wheels, because that too can nick rotors and require them to need replacement immediately.

If you DO need to replace a rotor, they're about $4K EACH on the Porsche side! Oh, and in order to reduce the risk of premature damage/wear on your rotors, you're supposed to replace your pads at 50% life. So the general wisdom is apparently that the extra cost is totally ridiculous for track people between the damage risk and just general wear (lots of track people apparently end up switching back to steel), and on the street the added performance isn't worth the price because you don't need that much braking power and the steel ones are really good anyway. Which means....carbon ceramics aren't really worth it anywhere. The only real benefit most owners seem to enjoy is practically zero brake dust, but that's a huge price to pay for that minor convenience.

Incidentally, a $4K per rotor cost makes me wonder how the carbon ceramic option is "only" $8K when ordering. That's a marginal cost increase of just $2K per wheel over steel brakes, but carbon ceramic rotors and pads cost well over $2K more per wheel to replace compared to their steel counterparts. I'm sure the factory gets a discount, but wow! Either the factory is getting a huge discount when fitting these to new cars and/or ordering the parts individually comes with an enormous markup!
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Last edited by jphughan; 02-12-2012 at 08:56 PM.
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      02-12-2012, 09:17 PM   #38
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Yup! That is why a lot of GT3 owners w/ PCCB who track their cars went with steel rotors and stow their ceramic rotors away till resale of the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
From what I gather reading about Porsche's carbon ceramics in their forums, evidently the rotors can go up to 100K+ miles without replacement under street and light track use, and the pads can generally go 60K. The problem is that under track use it's really easy to damage carbon ceramics either with heavy use (especially without a proper warmup) or by going off-track and having a piece of debris nick the rotors, which immediately kills them. You also have to be super careful removing wheels, because that too can nick rotors and require them to need replacement immediately.

If you DO need to replace a rotor, they're about $4K EACH on the Porsche side! Oh, and in order to reduce the risk of premature damage/wear on your rotors, you're supposed to replace your pads at 50% life. So the general wisdom is apparently that the extra cost is totally ridiculous for track people between the damage risk and just general wear (lots of track people apparently end up switching back to steel), and on the street the added performance isn't worth the price because you don't need that much braking power and the steel ones are really good anyway. Which means....carbon ceramics aren't really worth it anywhere. The only real benefit most owners seem to enjoy is practically zero brake dust, but that's a huge price to pay for that minor convenience.

Incidentally, a $4K per rotor cost makes me wonder how the carbon ceramic option is "only" $8K when ordering. That's a marginal cost increase of just $2K per wheel over steel brakes, but carbon ceramic rotors and pads cost well over $2K more per wheel to replace compared to their steel counterparts. I'm sure the factory gets a discount, but wow! Either the factory is getting a huge discount when fitting these to new cars and/or ordering the parts individually comes with an enormous markup!
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      02-12-2012, 09:37 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian19 View Post
Well, how many M6 owners track their cars? This is certainly more for bling factor, even though I believe it will have performance upgrades.


If it were on the M3, I would think it will be abetter application.
+1
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      02-12-2012, 10:13 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW BRAD View Post
Awesome, but yeah........ big bucks to replace!
Then again if you have the money to buy a new F1x M6 then you could probably afford the upgrade.
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      02-12-2012, 10:25 PM   #41
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Nice. I wonder if these will be covered under maintenance.
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      02-12-2012, 10:38 PM   #42
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You guys know these don't make the car suddenly stop faster right? Seems that some people are under this impression, which is false.

Tires (well traction, really) are the weakest link during maximum breaking. These will have no effect on stopping distances.

What they will do however is let you make that same braking maneuver repeatedly over short periods of time with better results that steel discs, which will fade and require a cooldown period to return to maximum effectiveness.

They also last a lot longer.

Also, the colors are lame. The blue is OK, but I shouldn't have to pick between ugly and slightly less ugly and have match them with my car.

edit: Interestingly enough, Boeing says that in their planes, steel breaks last longer with frequent, light applications to slow the plane. When outfitted with CC brakes longer, stronger presses of the brake (the opposite of the method for steel) reduce wear.

Last edited by eluder; 02-12-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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      02-13-2012, 12:57 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Envyscorpio View Post
Wow... Someone is in a bad mood. Your reply is quite harsh considering you don't even know who you're replying to. Have you ever experienced fading on a track before?

I've been to most track on the west coast and been to Nurburgring. My experience with all my M cars are great but the brakes always fade on the track. I even faded them at BMW CCA autoxs... Good for you if your M performs better and brakes are fade free.

Please think twice before you start lecturing someone on physics. Plenty of engineers on this forum. You never know when you'll run into someone with a degree in Engineering on this forum

Fact is BMW cheap out on a 110k car (Costs much more in Europe and double in Asia). Or purposely doing this so people can upgrade to their BMW performance parts. Don't you think?

Oh and I happen to be supplying investment casting component to "much more" Porsche, BMW and VW but unfortunately no Kia. Kia can make a equally priced 135i like car if they want. But would you spend that much on a Kia? Don't know why you think Kia is much less than European cars.
I wasn't saying the brakes are adequate for track use...anyone who seriously tracks their car would replace them anyways, but for the intended customer the brakes are obviously engineered just fine. Adding extra pistons to the rear brakes would not help EITHER the track junkie OR the regular road user, it would only serve to appease people who love the bling factor of big brakes.

Those are the people I was going off on, because they drive me insane and this forum is full of them. Actual track cars absolutely need big brake kits, but I can't think of anyone who would look at a 4,000+lb, $100,000+ car and think of turning it into a track rat. If you want a track car, why start with something with so many luxuries?

On the point about BMW cheaping out so people go to Performance parts, I agree, but in a less cynical sense I would say they give us more choice. I can have the more hardcore car I want while someone else can have a car with brakes that are cheaper to replace, smaller, lighter, etc. instead of forcing every M6 buyer to have 18" carbon ceramic brakes with 10 pistons at each corner.
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      02-13-2012, 01:39 AM   #44
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I don't understand the need for this. I rarely see people taking their M6 to the track. Why else would you need ceramic brakes other than the track?
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