Are We at War with Islam? - Page 39 - 6Post.com | BMW 6-Series Forum

hks786 · 08-19-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Maybe she lied about her age.

Not likely. Her parents were around to confirm her age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

I thought you said the prophet did not have any schooling? What education would an uneducated man bring to an innocent young girl?

I mean about Islam. We both know how well she remembered the Holy Prophet (SAW)'s Hadiths and she transmitted these to us and corrected people's mistakes. You could read a lot about how important she is in Islam with her knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Look up 'Stockholm Syndrome'.

I'm thinking it's quite possible she believed him to be a prophet. You wouldn't speak bad about the prophet, now would you, even if he engaged in unspeakable acts.

Again, just a guess/assumption. Also, we cant assume that the Holy Prophet (SAW) did any unspeakable acts. I showed that it is not within his nature or character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Plenty of people said and done did the same thing, don't make them messengers of god.

I feel that this would take us back into our arguement about whether the Quran is the word of Allah or not....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

You have no reason to other than faith. And your faith stands or falls with the virtue of the prophet. So naturally I question his virtue.

Same as above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

His reward is followers. Followers bestow power on a prophet, which they crave above all else.

That's another assumption. Also, in private the Holy Prophet (SAW) used to pray when noone was around. Bibi Ayesha (RA) and other wives would know about it if it was in their homes. He used to pray till his feet were sore. He was ALWAYS the first person to arrive at the Mosque and that is something that people witnessed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Seriously, though, I've got my own moral compass and it keeps me from doing things in the name of someone else. While I might murder an entire village, I won't do it while screaming the name of god nor would I expect to be free of blame afterwards.

That's my point. Everyone creates their own "morals", but did you know the word "moral" comes from the latin word for "custom". This is my whole point. People base morals on what they believe at the time. Your "morals" would be different +-1400years...

Max_! · 08-20-2007, 10:16 AM

> Not likely. Her parents were around to confirm her age.

Maybe they made her out to be younger so Muhammed would marry her?

> He was ALWAYS the first person to arrive at the Mosque and that is something that people witnessed.

I'm guessing it was basically his office. Plenty of entrepreneurs show up at the office before their workers.

I have to wonder, though, if Muhammed himself believed what he preached.

What did he do for a living? How did he put bread on the table?

> Your "morals" would be different +-1400years...

Yep, but I still wouldn't accept another man (even a prophet) dictating me what those morals should be, especially if they're based on 600 year old customs of a distant arab tribe.

Allah has to exist and he must have spoken to Muhammed, otherwise Muhammed was either a mad man or a con artist. But his teachings grow more and more out of sync with reality as time moves on.

Badmaash · 08-20-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

I have to wonder, though, if Muhammed himself believed what he preached.

He devoted himself, his wealth to spread the message. Thats all he did. Ofcourse he believed it, but he wanted you to believe it also.

“I am but a warner & bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith.”
-Muhammed S.W.S.

hks786 · 08-21-2007, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Maybe they made her out to be younger so Muhammed would marry her?

Again, an assumption and baseless guesswork. Also, the Holy Prophet (SAW) didnt marry other 9 year olds. His first wife Bibi Khadija (RA) was 40 and widowed, while he was only 25.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

I'm guessing it was basically his office. Plenty of entrepreneurs show up at the office before their workers.

I have to wonder, though, if Muhammed himself believed what he preached.

You just contradicted yourself. Firstly, he taught us Islam and how to follow it. One of the Pillars in Islam is Salat - Prayer. You say he is an "entrepreneur", this is false. He is the last of the prophets and there are 24 named Prophets (AS) before him. Every other prophet encouraged Salat.

You also ask if he practised what he preached? well, I already told you he was the first at the mosque. I already told you about the prayers he done in the middle of the night of his freewill. He followed Islam in every way and we learn this through the Hadiths. I already showed you that he didnt become too fond of this wordly life. He didnt care about having the best of material things and encouraged as to not do the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Yep, but I still wouldn't accept another man (even a prophet) dictating me what those morals should be, especially if they're based on 600 year old customs of a distant arab tribe.

I feel you still dont understand me. What I'm trying to say is that our "morals" always change because of customs at the time! So how do we actually know what is right and wrong?

Also, marrying people when they are very young (but matured) is not a "600 year old arab custom". It used to happen all over the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Allah has to exist and he must have spoken to Muhammed, otherwise Muhammed was either a mad man or a con artist. But his teachings grow more and more out of sync with reality as time moves on.

Do you ever wonder why Islam grows "out of sync with reality as time moves on"? Because our "morals" and "ethics" change all the time. Both words are derived from the greek and latin words for "customs". Western laws arent even something that can be agreed upon! every country has unique laws. So how do we know what is truth and what is falsehood? How do we know what is right and what is wrong?

Max_! · 08-21-2007, 07:48 AM

> So how do we actually know what is right and wrong?

If you need god to tell you that, we're all in trouble.

> marrying people when they are very young (but matured) is not a "600 year old arab custom". It used to happen all over the world.

It's not just that, the Quran as a whole imposes Bedouin-Arab tribal culture and it's teachings are in that context.

What islam needs is a period of enlightenment, perhaps based around the principles of the Shura.

> Do you ever wonder why Islam grows "out of sync with reality as time moves on"?

Because it's kept rigid and inflexible by orthodox and extremist followers.

> Western laws arent even something that can be agreed upon! every country has unique laws.

Yes. Means you can move to another country if you disagree with the laws of the one you're in. (Assuming they let you leave the former and enter the first, of course)

> So how do we know what is truth and what is falsehood?

You don't. You have to make up your own mind. To do that you need free access to information, freedom of press and freedom of speech.

> How do we know what is right and what is wrong?

The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a good starting place.

hks786 · 08-21-2007, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

If you need god to tell you that, we're all in trouble.

I disagree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

It's not just that, the Quran as a whole imposes Bedouin-Arab tribal culture and it's teachings are in that context.

“An Arab is no better than a non-Arab. Conversely, a non-Arab is no better than an Arab. A red-raced man is not better than a black one except in piety. Humanity are all Adam's children and Adam was created out of clay.” [Sahihs of Bukhari and Muslim.]

Grouping the Muslims on tribalistic lines is clearly forbidden. It is narrated by Abu Da'wud that the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said:

"He is not one us who calls for `Asabiyyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyyah or who dies for `Asabiyyah."

And in another Hadith, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) referring to nationalism, racism, and patriotism said:

"Leave it, it is rotten." [Muslim and Bukhari] and in the Hadith recorded in Mishkat al-Masabith, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,

"He who calls for `Asabiyyah is as if he bit his father's genitals"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Because it's kept rigid and inflexible by orthodox and extremist followers.

Let's suppose we both believe in Allah or even one God. If God ordained a certain life for us, why would he let it be flexible and adjustable in any way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Yes. Means you can move to another country if you disagree with the laws of the one you're in. (Assuming they let you leave the former and enter the first, of course)

Great solution. But what do you suggest if you are too poor to move country OR there are no countries left with acceptable laws since our "morals" and "ethics" have again progressed into something different and "better" than the last laws we had?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

You don't. You have to make up your own mind. To do that you need free access to information, freedom of press and freedom of speech.

Even if we had access to everything dated back to the first man and woman (may Allah be pleased with them), we would still never agree on what is truth and what is falsehood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a good starting place.

Even that could change some day. The fact is that, not you or anyone, could offer a guarantee that firstly, the current laws are just and fair since they vary all over the world and secondly, that such laws would never change.

UncleWede · 08-21-2007, 12:34 PM

>Let's suppose we both believe in Allah or even one God. If God ordained a certain life for us, why would he let it be flexible and adjustable in any way?

I'd have to take exception to that idea. The very basics of what we are made of, and determines our unique characteristics, are based on the flexibility of the DNA molecules. LIFE is a wonderful, exciting experience that demands we be flexible in our responses.

Max_! · 08-21-2007, 01:23 PM

> I disagree

Keep in mind that I believe there is no god. No god but rules from god means someone's playing dirty.

I know you believe there is a god, but it would still be a good idea if you don't blindly follow his rules as given to you by another man.

> Grouping the Muslims on tribalistic lines is clearly forbidden.

My point exactly. I've never been in a tribe. My great-great-great-grandparents were not in a tribe. The entire reference is for the benefit of tribal arabs only. And it's not just that, the entire Quran is filled with similar references. Of course, we can argue the translation of Asabiyyah, but it litteraly means the nomadic arab tribes that existed 600 years ago, who would recognize kin before all others.

> If God ordained a certain life for us, why would he let it be flexible and adjustable in any way?

You tell me - because it looks like it's flexible and adjustable. If god meant all of us to live our lives a certain way, we would all do it without question.

That's clearly not the case.

> But what do you suggest if you are too poor to move country OR there are no countries left with acceptable laws

Then you find kindred spirits and - provided you find enough of them - start your own country.

> we would still never agree on what is truth and what is falsehood.

That's what making up your own mind is all about.

> The fact is that, not you or anyone, could offer a guarantee that firstly, the current laws are just and fair since they vary all over the world and secondly, that such laws would never change.

Laws *MUST* change. Laws that are absolute or that cannot change are unjust.

> LIFE is a wonderful, exciting experience that demands we be flexible in our responses.

Yes, but you're a christian, and christianity has already had it's period of enlightenment. That allows you to see things this way. Before, you were a guilt-ridden maggot that deserved to suffer for your sins.

hks786 · 08-21-2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleWede

>Let's suppose we both believe in Allah or even one God. If God ordained a certain life for us, why would he let it be flexible and adjustable in any way?

I'd have to take exception to that idea. The very basics of what we are made of, and determines our unique characteristics, are based on the flexibility of the DNA molecules. LIFE is a wonderful, exciting experience that demands we be flexible in our responses.

Yes we are unique. We look different etc. But we all came from Prophet Adam (AS) and his wife. (May Allah be pleased with them always). Allah tells us that we may come from different parts of the world but the only thing that should be used to distinguish us, is our piety.

The reason for this is that God has a specific way of life created for us. You are Christian but you should also believe this. So why should we be flexible in our way of life? being flexible will take us to the wrong path. Jesus said in the Bible that the true path is the one that appears narrow and restrictive...

hks786 · 08-21-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

I know you believe there is a god, but it would still be a good idea if you don't blindly follow his rules as given to you by another man.

Not even if he sent that man to us?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

My point exactly. I've never been in a tribe. My great-great-great-grandparents were not in a tribe. The entire reference is for the benefit of tribal arabs only. And it's not just that, the entire Quran is filled with similar references. Of course, we can argue the translation of Asabiyyah, but it litteraly means the nomadic arab tribes that existed 600 years ago, who would recognize kin before all others.

I'm not sure how to address this but I can tell you that Asabiyyah can also be translated as nationalism. Basically, Islam does not like division.

Anyway, how can you say Islam is limited to Arabs when the Holy Prophet (SAW) teaches us about previous Prophets from all over the world? He tells us that Prophets (AS) have been sent to every nation, arab or non-arab. Only 24 are named but there are thousands! Moreover, these Prophets (AS) taught the same message.

Also, the things the Holy Prophet (SAW) were advice for all of humanity, not just arabs. The Quran, which was revealed to him, teaches us how to marry and divorce, eat and sleep etc. These are for all of mankind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

You tell me - because it looks like it's flexible and adjustable. If god meant all of us to live our lives a certain way, we would all do it without question.

No we wouldnt. Not even if we believed in the same God. The fact is that people will always twist the truth to fit what they want. It's just human nature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Then you find kindred spirits and - provided you find enough of them - start your own country.

And if you cant? You said that you might not be able to leave your country, so what makes you think you'd be able to form a new one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_!

Laws *MUST* change. Laws that are absolute or that cannot change are unjust.

What if there are laws which were given to us by our creator? He knows what is best for us since he created us...

!Xoible · 08-21-2007, 03:59 PM

every prophet was sent with enough proof that he was sent by God. Once you accept that proof i dont think it makes too much sense not to follow

hks786 · 08-21-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mantisG35

every prophet was sent with enough proof that he was sent by God. Once you accept that proof i dont think it makes too much sense not to follow

good point bro

ATG · 08-21-2007, 04:22 PM

My friend HKS and other religious owners of entry-level luxury cars:

All of you need only one thing in your life -- an anchor that keeps you stable and helps not to go nuts because ot the unknown nature of your future. You may be convinced to change religion (things like that happen with religious people all the time), but you will never have the guts to completely drop religion and "faith." You need to believe in something to get away from the unsettling and scary thoughts about life and death. You prefer to remain a child relying on an imaginary parent for guidance rather than taking your destiny into your own hands and making independent decisions. That's your choice. But because you think that being a puppet is more appropriate than being a human, I feel sorry for you. Human life is not an exercise in obedience and submission, it's a journey of exploration, defiance, and struggle. And you get it only ONCE. So, cut loose your mental puppet strings and enjoy LIFE!

Now, should I become a preacher?

!Xoible · 08-21-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATG

My friend HKS and other religious fanatics:

All of you need only one thing in your life -- an anchor that keeps you stable and helps not to go nuts because ot the unknown nature of your future. You may be convinced to change religion (things like that happen with religious people all the time), but you will never have the guts to completely drop religion and "faith." You need to believe in something to get away from the unsettling and scary thoughts about life and death. You prefer to remain a child relying on an imaginary parent for guidance rather than taking your destiny into your own hands and making independent decisions. That's your choice. But because you think that being a puppet is more appropriate than being a human, I feel sorry for you. Human life is not an exercise in obedience and submission, it's a journey of exploration, defiance, and struggle. And you get it only ONCE. So, cut loose your mental puppet strings and enjoy LIFE!

Now, should I become a preacher?

please refrain from using any sorts of labels. that one line made me stop right there and didnt wanna continue reading.

hks786 · 08-21-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATG

My friend HKS and other religious fanatics:

All of you need only one thing in your life -- an anchor that keeps you stable and helps not to go nuts because ot the unknown nature of your future. You may be convinced to change religion (things like that happen with religious people all the time), but you will never have the guts to completely drop religion and "faith." You need to believe in something to get away from the unsettling and scary thoughts about life and death. You prefer to remain a child relying on an imaginary parent for guidance rather than taking your destiny into your own hands and making independent decisions. That's your choice. But because you think that being a puppet is more appropriate than being a human, I feel sorry for you. Human life is not an exercise in obedience and submission, it's a journey of exploration, defiance, and struggle. And you get it only ONCE. So, cut loose your mental puppet strings and enjoy LIFE!

Now, should I become a preacher?

Thanks bro, but...

Firstly, if you are saying that I should follow destiny, then how can you be so sure that this ISNT my destiny? Also, who says you cant explore anything on a journey of submission? I have learned many things about Allah and the way of life he has ordained for us.

hks786 · 08-21-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mantisG35

please refrain from using any sorts of labels. that one line made me stop right there and didnt wanna continue reading.

+1

UncleWede · 08-21-2007, 05:14 PM

but for me, that struggle is with my own human nature. I know I have a very dark side, one full of hate and discontent and meanness and ugliness and jealousy and pride. It's something I'm VERY PROUD of, because I love all of me. And there are my addictions to pleasure too.

There is also something MAGICAL inside me that keeps all that other part of me from spilling out into the world and clouding the light for others. It's something I beleive is given to me as a gift beyond my humanity.

My quest is to fins that path that leads me to understanding both the human and divine within me, and how to let both interact in harmony with the rest of my brothers and sisters who are stumbling around this little rock in search of their ultimate happiness

hks786 · 08-22-2007, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleWede

My quest is to fins that path that leads me to understanding both the human and divine within me, and how to let both interact in harmony with the rest of my brothers and sisters who are stumbling around this little rock in search of their ultimate happiness

My quest is simply to find the truth about why we are here etc. whatever is may be. I have found that truth in Islam...

UncleWede · 08-22-2007, 08:50 AM

Hey, I forgot recently to ask if you had seen the recent attempt to smooth over religious relations in LA. Sheriff Lee Bocca got a bunch of Muslim leaders to come together and give a "pow wow" on how peaceful these people were, and the sheriff was right there supporting. Not sure of Bocca's religious tendencies.

hks786 · 08-22-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Hey, I forgot recently to ask if you had seen the recent attempt to smooth over religious relations in LA. Sheriff Lee Bocca got a bunch of Muslim leaders to come together and give a "pow wow" on how peaceful these people were, and the sheriff was right there supporting. Not sure of Bocca's religious tendencies.

I didnt know. Sounds interesting. Funny because I just posted this a few mins ago in another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by hks786

Yes I may not believe in it, but can't I try find out why other brothers DO believe it? Also, it helps promote dialogue between faiths which I think with what is going on in the world today, is a GOOD thing.

UncleWede · 08-22-2007, 09:45 AM

It was noteworthy enough to make the local news, but I never did get my invitation

UncleWede · 08-22-2007, 10:01 AM

Anyone see any of Christiane Amanpour's CNN series "God's Warriors" last night? I watched about 30 minutes on the Jewish pair who were so far apart in their practice, but fought together in the 6 day war. I had chased the kids and balls all over the field at soccer practice, so nodded off since it didn't start until 9.

Is it wrong that I think she is the HOTTEST thing in news these days?

08-21-2007, 04:22 PM	#849
ATG Major Drives: f30 328 xdrive, e90 335i gone Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Eastside Posts: 1,057 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2013 BMW 328i xdrive [0.00] 2007 e90 335i [0.00]	My friend HKS and other religious owners of entry-level luxury cars: All of you need only one thing in your life -- an anchor that keeps you stable and helps not to go nuts because ot the unknown nature of your future. You may be convinced to change religion (things like that happen with religious people all the time), but you will never have the guts to completely drop religion and "faith." You need to believe in something to get away from the unsettling and scary thoughts about life and death. You prefer to remain a child relying on an imaginary parent for guidance rather than taking your destiny into your own hands and making independent decisions. That's your choice. But because you think that being a puppet is more appropriate than being a human, I feel sorry for you. Human life is not an exercise in obedience and submission, it's a journey of exploration, defiance, and struggle. And you get it only ONCE. So, cut loose your mental puppet strings and enjoy LIFE! Now, should I become a preacher? Last edited by ATG; 08-21-2007 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Removed the word "fanatics" based on a popular request

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-20-2007, 10:16 AM	#838
Max_! First Lieutenant Drives: E91 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 350 iTrader: (0)	> Not likely. Her parents were around to confirm her age. Maybe they made her out to be younger so Muhammed would marry her? > He was ALWAYS the first person to arrive at the Mosque and that is something that people witnessed. I'm guessing it was basically his office. Plenty of entrepreneurs show up at the office before their workers. I have to wonder, though, if Muhammed himself believed what he preached. What did he do for a living? How did he put bread on the table? > Your "morals" would be different +-1400years... Yep, but I still wouldn't accept another man (even a prophet) dictating me what those morals should be, especially if they're based on 600 year old customs of a distant arab tribe. Allah has to exist and he must have spoken to Muhammed, otherwise Muhammed was either a mad man or a con artist. But his teachings grow more and more out of sync with reality as time moves on.

08-21-2007, 07:48 AM	#841
Max_! First Lieutenant Drives: E91 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 350 iTrader: (0)	> So how do we actually know what is right and wrong? If you need god to tell you that, we're all in trouble. > marrying people when they are very young (but matured) is not a "600 year old arab custom". It used to happen all over the world. It's not just that, the Quran as a whole imposes Bedouin-Arab tribal culture and it's teachings are in that context. What islam needs is a period of enlightenment, perhaps based around the principles of the Shura. > Do you ever wonder why Islam grows "out of sync with reality as time moves on"? Because it's kept rigid and inflexible by orthodox and extremist followers. > Western laws arent even something that can be agreed upon! every country has unique laws. Yes. Means you can move to another country if you disagree with the laws of the one you're in. (Assuming they let you leave the former and enter the first, of course) > So how do we know what is truth and what is falsehood? You don't. You have to make up your own mind. To do that you need free access to information, freedom of press and freedom of speech. > How do we know what is right and what is wrong? The United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a good starting place.

08-21-2007, 12:34 PM	#843
UncleWede Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner Drives: E90 325i Arctic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oxnard, CA Posts: 2,249 iTrader: (0)	>Let's suppose we both believe in Allah or even one God. If God ordained a certain life for us, why would he let it be flexible and adjustable in any way? I'd have to take exception to that idea. The very basics of what we are made of, and determines our unique characteristics, are based on the flexibility of the DNA molecules. LIFE is a wonderful, exciting experience that demands we be flexible in our responses.

08-21-2007, 01:23 PM	#844
Max_! First Lieutenant Drives: E91 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 350 iTrader: (0)	> I disagree Keep in mind that I believe there is no god. No god but rules from god means someone's playing dirty. I know you believe there is a god, but it would still be a good idea if you don't blindly follow his rules as given to you by another man. > Grouping the Muslims on tribalistic lines is clearly forbidden. My point exactly. I've never been in a tribe. My great-great-great-grandparents were not in a tribe. The entire reference is for the benefit of tribal arabs only. And it's not just that, the entire Quran is filled with similar references. Of course, we can argue the translation of Asabiyyah, but it litteraly means the nomadic arab tribes that existed 600 years ago, who would recognize kin before all others. > If God ordained a certain life for us, why would he let it be flexible and adjustable in any way? You tell me - because it looks like it's flexible and adjustable. If god meant all of us to live our lives a certain way, we would all do it without question. That's clearly not the case. > But what do you suggest if you are too poor to move country OR there are no countries left with acceptable laws Then you find kindred spirits and - provided you find enough of them - start your own country. > we would still never agree on what is truth and what is falsehood. That's what making up your own mind is all about. > The fact is that, not you or anyone, could offer a guarantee that firstly, the current laws are just and fair since they vary all over the world and secondly, that such laws would never change. Laws MUST change. Laws that are absolute or that cannot change are unjust. > LIFE is a wonderful, exciting experience that demands we be flexible in our responses. Yes, but you're a christian, and christianity has already had it's period of enlightenment. That allows you to see things this way. Before, you were a guilt-ridden maggot that deserved to suffer for your sins.

08-21-2007, 03:59 PM	#847
!Xoible Banned Drives: .... Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: . Posts: 46,045 iTrader: (4) Garage List 2008 M3 [3.50] 2007 335i [4.50] 2008 528i [4.00] 2006 Infiniti - G35 ... [4.00]	every prophet was sent with enough proof that he was sent by God. Once you accept that proof i dont think it makes too much sense not to follow

08-21-2007, 05:14 PM	#853
UncleWede Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner Drives: E90 325i Arctic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oxnard, CA Posts: 2,249 iTrader: (0)	but for me, that struggle is with my own human nature. I know I have a very dark side, one full of hate and discontent and meanness and ugliness and jealousy and pride. It's something I'm VERY PROUD of, because I love all of me. And there are my addictions to pleasure too. There is also something MAGICAL inside me that keeps all that other part of me from spilling out into the world and clouding the light for others. It's something I beleive is given to me as a gift beyond my humanity. My quest is to fins that path that leads me to understanding both the human and divine within me, and how to let both interact in harmony with the rest of my brothers and sisters who are stumbling around this little rock in search of their ultimate happiness

08-22-2007, 08:50 AM	#855
UncleWede Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner Drives: E90 325i Arctic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oxnard, CA Posts: 2,249 iTrader: (0)	Hey, I forgot recently to ask if you had seen the recent attempt to smooth over religious relations in LA. Sheriff Lee Bocca got a bunch of Muslim leaders to come together and give a "pow wow" on how peaceful these people were, and the sheriff was right there supporting. Not sure of Bocca's religious tendencies.

08-22-2007, 09:45 AM	#857
UncleWede Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner Drives: E90 325i Arctic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oxnard, CA Posts: 2,249 iTrader: (0)	It was noteworthy enough to make the local news, but I never did get my invitation

08-22-2007, 10:01 AM	#858
UncleWede Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner Drives: E90 325i Arctic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oxnard, CA Posts: 2,249 iTrader: (0)	Anyone see any of Christiane Amanpour's CNN series "God's Warriors" last night? I watched about 30 minutes on the Jewish pair who were so far apart in their practice, but fought together in the 6 day war. I had chased the kids and balls all over the field at soccer practice, so nodded off since it didn't start until 9. Is it wrong that I think she is the HOTTEST thing in news these days?