650I vs M6

[Superpop]

Contemplating buying a 2014 650i convertible or 2014 M6 convertible. Wondering a few things, primarily, is it worth 18K more for the M6. I am not taking this car to the track so I do not need monster HP but do want sports car power. I have a 2013 S550 now that I love but looking for something more sporty. Is insurance more on the M6? Do they feel dramatically different? The 650I is the sport m model so just wondering what the big differences are. This will be my DD so I do want something that is great on the freeway as well.

[Brooke]

I haven't driven both, but ... I assume the M has the DCT. My wife's M4 has it, and I would find it annoying as a DD in traffic. Herky jerky.

[bravo261]

I have the 650 and its plenty sufficient for really getting up to speed.

With massive disposal income relative to where I'm at, sure, the M would be loved, but the 650 isn't lacking as a DD

And I've also heard that the 650 in sport mode is more tolerable than an M in comfort mode if that matters

[M6-Coupe]

As a guy who has had both of these cars for couple years I would suggest you to go for M6 PERIOD.
It's not just about the power and torque of this monster or race track since M6 specially convertible is too have and big for track, but the sporty character of M6 beside the amazing DCT, Active M differential, sporty suspension and more aggressive look (compare to 650i) are the factors you will enjoy with M6...

[AmooManiak]

If you don't know, then just go for the 650i. An M6 is too heavy to be considered a track car and if you're contemplating, then 18K doesn't justify the extra horsepower that you'll have during highway cruising.

Yes, it's more visually appealing but the average person doesn't even know the difference between a 640i and the M6. Get yourself a nice 650i M-Sport, put a tune and some visual mods on it and you'll be just as happy with 15K more in your pocket.

Typically I say if you have to ask the question, then you're not a big enough fan of the M to make that difference worthwhile.

[ojo]

For what’s worth http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/b...han-m6-1925964 I’ve never driven a M-car, but I found this article interesting.

I did have a Z4 35 with the DCT and loved the tranny(car too), but it was a bit harsh at gentle drive/low speed. But then again, at low speed, the 8 speed in the 650 is not super smooth as the old autos…

[ShakeDaddy]

Go with the MSport 650i and use the extra cash for a 4 year extended warranty and some preferred mods as in BMS JB+, Power Pedal and a set of sweet Non RFT.

You will easily be $$ ahead and covered.

[WanaM]

Get the 650i, it won't disappoint.

Check out here:

https://www.autolist.com/bmw-6+serie...rim%5B%5D=650i

you might be able to find a good deal, good luck with your search!

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by ojo

For what’s worth http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/b...han-m6-1925964 I’ve never driven a M-car, but I found this article interesting.

I did have a Z4 35 with the DCT and loved the tranny(car too), but it was a bit harsh at gentle drive/low speed. But then again, at low speed, the 8 speed in the 650 is not super smooth as the old autos…

As I said there is huge difference between them but if the power is not that much important and you are not in favor of amazing DCT and LSD Active M differential beside the sporty suspension and aggressive look of M6 (including CF roof, bumpers, exhaust ,etc), I believe you should go for 640 since it's cheaper and is sharing the same body (interior/exterior) with enough power and torque a luxury car should have!

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

As I said there is huge difference between them but if the power is not that much important and you are not in favor of amazing DCT and LSD Active M differential and sporty suspension of M6, I believe you should go for 640 since it's cheaper and is sharing the same body (interior/exterior) with enough power and torque a luxury car should have!

Disagree. 650i with a flash is as fast or faster than an M6. At that point the only difference is the DCT (which I would consider disadvantage for daily driving), LSD and suspension. I believe the later two are not high on the priority list for the average 6 series shopper, or they would get a 4 series instead.

With a 650i you get a fairly loaded car. With a 640i, you will need to add quite a few options that come standard on a 650i and should be standard in this class, and for that reason you might as well get a 650i.

[JakeBMW]

I have a 2016 650i. Absolutely LOVE it!!! fast enough for me and comfortable as well. Never driven an M so can't compare but as others have said, if you have to ask then just get the M Sport 650.

[Craigas]

I have a 2012 650i and love it as well. Got the Dinan tune and it really amped it up in power 400hp/450Tq to 490/579, will take a M6 light to light I'm sure. It super comfortable, has great road manners in comfort and sport, sport mode just waked it up though as the power is right there when you need it (rpms come up between shifts).

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

Disagree. 650i with a flash is as fast or faster than an M6. At that point the only difference is the DCT (which I would consider disadvantage for daily driving), LSD and suspension. I believe the later two are not high on the priority list for the average 6 series shopper, or they would get a 4 series instead.

With a 650i you get a fairly loaded car. With a 640i, you will need to add quite a few options that come standard on a 650i and should be standard in this class, and for that reason you might as well get a 650i.

LOL... Apple to apple comparison, M6 with flash is faster than many cars even GTR or 458 in rolling ... you can search to see races on youtube and I have had personal experience to say this... BUT I'm not sure if the flash 650i is even faster than stock M6 with under-rated S63 engine. There are many evidences proves the stock S63tu engine is generating over 600 HP on M6 which is much higher than stock N63tu with about 450 HP. If you have time we have so many threads over M5post and you can see lots of Dyno records with stock and tuned M5/M6 over there...

To be honest with you I'm not trying to defend M6 (especially now that beast is gone) since as you can see on my signature, I used to have 2 650i with N63 and then N63tu engine before going to S63tu on M6 and now S55 on M4 so basically I would say S63tu is the best engine ever had on my cars and you will feel the difference between N63 and S63. The twin-scroll turbo S63 is more aggressive and has much better torque curve than single-scroll turbo N63 that covers the wide range of RPM starting at about 1500 RPM all the way to 5700 RPM (compare to 2000 - 4500 RPM on N63). You can increase the RPM on S63 all the way to redline (about 7200) and still feel the torque and power. I'm not sure how much this curve can be changed by flash but as far as I know as long as the turbos on N63t is not replaced by bigger one you won't see something similar to S63tu. You also feel minimum turbo lag specially at S3/Sport+ mode on M6 (with S63tu).

As far as DCT as others said, it's subjective but I love DCT because of high speed gear shifting and the similar feeling to MT you can get. Also I really hate the creepy torque convertor gearbox even the well engineered ZF8HP70 even though it's a lot smoother than DCT.
According to LSD and suspension I have pushed both 650 and M6 to the limit specially on corning and I'm telling you the LSD is absolutely fantastic BUT if you are looking for a DD car and are not in favor of some fun driving you might go with 650i and skip Active M Differential.

Finally regarding to 640 vs 650, I believe you can build a 640i with all features of 650i and still much cheaper...

P.S: If you are interested, this is an interesting article to explains the differences between two engines:

http://www.***********.com/content.p...and-S63-motors

Here you can see the N63 vs S63 power/torque curve

[Craigas]

Good info and analysis. Yes no question tuning an M can make it off the charts fast. However I think there is more too it than just brute power.

From an apples to apples perspective its also a about getting the power down, cost, road manners, etc... the all wheel drive of 650 is very nice, especially in the north where I live. Daily driver for sure.

The tune just made it so much better. I've thought about water injection to push the 650 further but, again, its so well rounded now, fast when needed, and tons of torque which with road cars is most important, why push it.

If I didn't live in the north, a two wheel drive rocket might suffice, but an all wheel drive twin turbo v8--holy crap, nice!

[Craigas]

How bout this comparison, with a simple win-loss, M6 followed by 650:

Brute Power: Win/Loss
Power Down: Loss/Win
Price: Loss/Win
Comfort: Loss/Win
Style: Negotiable, about even
All Weather Capability: Loss/Win
Bragging Rights: Win/Loss

[AmooManiak]

I'm not arguing that the M6 is the more desirable overall car. All I'm saying is that the the benefits of the M6 are not necessities for the majority of 6 series buyers. Arguably the most important one (power) can be taken care of with a tune or piggyback. Of course the M6 can be flashed as well, but the point was that you can get to the same level as a stock M6 for 10s of thousands less. OP wasn't sure which one to get and therefore I think the 650i is the right choice. To me this is one of those things where you would not have to ask the question if you REALLY wanted an M car.

Not F13/F06 applicable, but still an N63TU vs S63TU comparison

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

LOL... Apple to apple comparison, M6 with flash is faster than many cars even GTR or 458 in rolling ... you can search to see races on youtube and I have had personal experience to say this... BUT I'm not sure if the flash 650i is even faster than stock M6 with under-rated S63 engine. There are many evidences proves the stock S63tu engine is generating over 600 HP on M6 which is much higher than stock N63tu with about 450 HP. If you have time we have so many threads over M5post and you can see lots of Dyno records with stock and tuned M5/M6 over there...

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

I'm not arguing that the M6 is the more desirable overall car. All I'm saying is that the the benefits of the M6 are not necessities for the majority of 6 series buyers. Arguably the most important one (power) can be taken care of with a tune or piggyback. Of course the M6 can be flashed as well, but the point was that you can get to the same level as a stock M6 for 10s of thousands less. OP wasn't sure which one to get and therefore I think the 650i is the right choice. To me this is one of those things where you would not have to ask the question if you REALLY wanted an M car.

Not F13/F06 applicable, but still an N63TU vs S63TU comparison

I'm not arguing either but to be honest with you I would not rely on a video like this while I have seen lots of videos and again have experienced personally how hard M6 can pull especially in rolling when full traction is available. Here is some of them over cars like Ferrari or GTR ... BTW everybody knows M6 is slightly faster than M5...

[AmooManiak]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

I'm not arguing either but to be honest with you I would not rely on a video like this while I have seen lots of videos and again have experienced personally how hard M6 can pull especially in rolling when full traction is available. Here is some of them over cars like Ferrari or GTR ... BTW everybody knows M6 is slightly faster than M5...

The comparison was M5 vs 550i. The difference between the two should be identical to comparing the M6 and 650i as they have similar weight and drag coefficients. This is not an M5 vs M6 comparison, but a N63TU with tune/piggyback vs S63TU. Both engines in the F10 and F06 are the same and should give you an idea of the power the engine put down when compared to a car with similar weight and drag coefficient.

BTW, I don't really look at races "vs Ferrari and GTR" as that involves what is called a driver mod. I look at the dyno/torque numbers that the cars put down and consistent 1/4 mile runs where N63TUs are in 11s with just a reflash, which is faster than a stock M6.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by AmooManiak

The comparison was M5 vs 550i. The difference between the two should be identical to comparing the M6 and 650i as they have similar weight and drag coefficients. This is not an M5 vs M6 comparison, but a N63TU with tune/piggyback vs S63TU. Both engines in the F10 and F06 are the same and should give you an idea of the power the engine put down when compared to a car with similar weight and drag coefficient.

BTW, I don't really look at races "vs Ferrari and GTR" as that involves what is called a driver mod. I look at the dyno/torque numbers that the cars put down and consistent 1/4 mile runs where N63TUs are in 11s with just a reflash, which is faster than a stock M6.

Well the comparison was 650 vs M6 as the thread is named and I was not comparing M5 with M6... I just posted the M5 vs FF to show how this engine on M5 pull and to remind M6 is slightly faster than M5 that's it...
As far as races I agree it's not applying to 650 if you are looking for a DD car as we discussed before, but I just mentioned and posted some videos about racing to say the difference is more than just a flash... all curves and other stuff were posted to support this matter...

[CLGBMW]

I was struggling with the same decision ... but decided for a 650iX ... coming from 10+ of driving an Audi, the AWD was a point in favor of the 650i and I plan on tuning it for increased power.

I was ok with that compromise - especially since I've seen a few cars do 360s when the roads get slick from the flash rainstorms in the Miami area.

Of course, it'll never achieve full potential of the 63tu engine like the M6 S63tu, but with a tune, it'll put out plenty of power and be a bit more manageable as my daily driver.

This quote from Motor Trend probably was in the back of my head, too ...

"With 600 ponies assaulting the rear wheels, the M6 can barely move out of a parking spot without breaking rear-wheel traction. Senior features editor Jonny Lieberman joked that the perpetually blinking traction-control light in the M6 must be trying to flash out Ultimate Driving Machine in Morse code. Fact is, you’re more likely to get struck by lightning than launch an M6 properly from a stop."

Of course, those guys are always biased ... so I'd not take that criticism as gospel, but it's something to think about ...